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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:10 pm 
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John James

Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:13 pm
Posts: 697
david31 wrote:
jim wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
How many years now 0-3 to start a season ?


I haven't checked but is it every year since 2013?

Haven’t won either of our first two games since 2012. There’s maybe one or two 1-2 starts since then. It’s just so frustrating that we had the opportunity to get a win against a garbage side and we decided to not show for 1.5 quarters. The lack of pressure, intensity and effort in that first quarter was so far off the required standard that we shouldn’t expect to beat anyone playing like that.


2013: 0-3
2014: 0-4
2015: 0-3
2016: 0-4
2017: 0-2, 1-4
2018: 0-7
2019: 0-4
2020: 0-2 and counting.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:16 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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99prelim wrote:
What do people think of Ed beginning his post-football coaching career (I'm just guessing...) by teaching Gibbons the art of being a lock-down mid?

I know Gibbo is not tall but neither were Libba/Hogg and I know it was a different era

I reckon Gibbo is so desperate to succeed as an AFL footballer, he could be taught (and be driven enough) to make it work. He's certainly more skillfull and quicker than Ed as well


Like. A lot. I feel we need to run Gibbo thru the middle more now, so why not kill 2 birds with one stone and give him Ed's position.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:42 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Go Blues

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:37 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Posts: 4426
Brently8 wrote:
david31 wrote:
jim wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
How many years now 0-3 to start a season ?


I haven't checked but is it every year since 2013?

Haven’t won either of our first two games since 2012. There’s maybe one or two 1-2 starts since then. It’s just so frustrating that we had the opportunity to get a win against a garbage side and we decided to not show for 1.5 quarters. The lack of pressure, intensity and effort in that first quarter was so far off the required standard that we shouldn’t expect to beat anyone playing like that.


2013: 0-3
2014: 0-4
2015: 0-3
2016: 0-4
2017: 0-2, 1-4
2018: 0-7
2019: 0-4
2020: 0-2 and counting.

I thought so ... thats seriously disgraceful ...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:12 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
99prelim wrote:
What do people think of Ed beginning his post-football coaching career (I'm just guessing...) by teaching Gibbons the art of being a lock-down mid?

I know Gibbo is not tall but neither were Libba/Hogg and I know it was a different era

I reckon Gibbo is so desperate to succeed as an AFL footballer, he could be taught (and be driven enough) to make it work. He's certainly more skillfull and quicker than Ed as well


Gibbo was, the 5th mid throughout the game.
He won 5 posessions in the first, some at HB.
He gets around, as an outside mid role.

With Cripps being held by Oliver (literally) all game, Murph and Ed were too small to contain Petracca, as would Gibbo in the guts.

Its a case of horses for courses. We needed to match Petracca with a bull sized player ie Cripps.
I think we were outcoached from the first bounce.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:20 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8166
Location: Australia
Brently8 wrote:
david31 wrote:
jim wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
How many years now 0-3 to start a season ?


I haven't checked but is it every year since 2013?

Haven’t won either of our first two games since 2012. There’s maybe one or two 1-2 starts since then. It’s just so frustrating that we had the opportunity to get a win against a garbage side and we decided to not show for 1.5 quarters. The lack of pressure, intensity and effort in that first quarter was so far off the required standard that we shouldn’t expect to beat anyone playing like that.


2013: 0-3
2014: 0-4
2015: 0-3
2016: 0-4
2017: 0-2, 1-4
2018: 0-7
2019: 0-4
2020: 0-2 and counting.


So, this is currently our equal best start to a season since 2013?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:26 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8166
Location: Australia
bondiblue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
What do people think of Ed beginning his post-football coaching career (I'm just guessing...) by teaching Gibbons the art of being a lock-down mid?

I know Gibbo is not tall but neither were Libba/Hogg and I know it was a different era

I reckon Gibbo is so desperate to succeed as an AFL footballer, he could be taught (and be driven enough) to make it work. He's certainly more skillfull and quicker than Ed as well


Gibbo was, the 5th mid throughout the game.
He won 5 posessions in the first, some at HB.
He gets around, as an outside mid role.

With Cripps being held by Oliver (literally) all game, Murph and Ed were too small to contain Petracca, as would Gibbo in the guts.

Its a case of horses for courses. We needed to match Petracca with a bull sized player ie Cripps.
I think we were outcoached from the first bounce.


I thought Ed was moved onto Petracca sometime in the second quarter and was the one who shut him down?

I don't think you can compare Ed and Murphy in terms of strength, there's a clear difference.

I agree we were outcoached form the start, matching up Petracca with Murphy made Petracca look like Koutafides.

As others have said, Murphy should not be in our starting on ball setup ever again. Wing or half forward are his caper for the rest of his career....


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:26 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
SurreyBlue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
What do people think of Ed beginning his post-football coaching career (I'm just guessing...) by teaching Gibbons the art of being a lock-down mid?

I know Gibbo is not tall but neither were Libba/Hogg and I know it was a different era

I reckon Gibbo is so desperate to succeed as an AFL footballer, he could be taught (and be driven enough) to make it work. He's certainly more skillfull and quicker than Ed as well


Like. A lot. I feel we need to run Gibbo thru the middle more now, so why not kill 2 birds with one stone and give him Ed's position.


Eds good as a lockdown taggger. He seems to collect more disposals when he has that job.

When he's free to roam as an unaccountable midfielder, he doesn't have the class to break out of a pack and deliver with precision from either side of the body.

What that says to me is he has to have a role as a tagger, and leave the other 2 mids to fight for possession with the ruck. Problem is, Cripps contested possessions are scrappy an sometimes not to advantage, but at least he stops the opponent getting first hand on it. That leaves the 3rd mid to be the class player, with good body size and abiltiy to dispose the ball from both sides of the body. The only one I can think of who can do that is Jack.

I think Philp is the one who will surprise because he is a great inside mid despite his size and speed, but I don't think he's ready to face Petracca, Viney and oliver, let alone Selwood, Dangerfield and Duncan/Menegola.

Ed stays in the guts as a tagger till Dow, Stocker, Kemp, Fisher, or Setterfield pass him. That doesn't look like its going to be 2020.

IMO, apart from cameos/chop out Gibbo to play an outside role like Murphy should, same reason good small players like Daniels, Butler... are not in the guts.

Lachie Oniel is small, but he's well built and tough. Will any of Dow, Stocker, Kemp, Fisher or Setterfield become a Lachie Neale? Can they? I can see Dow and Stocker playing that role. Maybe taller players like Honey and philp will.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:31 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
sinbagger wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
What do people think of Ed beginning his post-football coaching career (I'm just guessing...) by teaching Gibbons the art of being a lock-down mid?

I know Gibbo is not tall but neither were Libba/Hogg and I know it was a different era

I reckon Gibbo is so desperate to succeed as an AFL footballer, he could be taught (and be driven enough) to make it work. He's certainly more skillfull and quicker than Ed as well


Gibbo was, the 5th mid throughout the game.
He won 5 posessions in the first, some at HB.
He gets around, as an outside mid role.

With Cripps being held by Oliver (literally) all game, Murph and Ed were too small to contain Petracca, as would Gibbo in the guts.

Its a case of horses for courses. We needed to match Petracca with a bull sized player ie Cripps.
I think we were outcoached from the first bounce.


I thought Ed was moved onto Petracca sometime in the second quarter and was the one who shut him down?

Petracca did damage right up to 10 min mark on Murphy, then went to the forward line. Ed did take him on for parts,when Petracca ventured to the middle, but Petracca wasn't shut down. He kicked 2 goals and assisted 2 other goals. Petracca ran out of gas imo.

I don't think you can compare Ed and Murphy in terms of strength, there's a clear difference.

Yep. Curnow likes the physical battle and is a strong little bugger.

I agree we were outcoached form the start, matching up Petracca with Murphy made Petracca look like Koutafides.

As others have said, Murphy should not be in our starting on ball setup ever again. Wing or half forward are his caper for the rest of his career....


Problem we had is Oliver tagged (heldthe arm of) Cripps every time Cripps went into the midfield, and we let that continue for the whole game. Hence Cripps became ineffective without the umpire picking up the hold. Cripps didn't seem to complain about being held. Couldn't work that out.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:48 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17517
From memory Petracca started on Walsh, not Murphy.
Walsh was better value when he was moved to the wing. Petracca torched him in the first 10 minutes.
And yes, Ed did reduce Petraccas influence significantly.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:19 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Don't mind the prospect of having Murph on the wing or forward. But, if the main reason for doing that is Murph's lack of physicality, then who replaces him in the midfield? Gibbons, maybe?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:46 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 8927
Location: Nth Fitzroy
Looks like lots of major momentum swings over the weekend. Carlton wont be happy with their first 30mins. Pies and dees struggle to get it past halfway for over a half of football. Tigers slow start on the back of slow second half against us. I doubt this will be the norm for the whole carnival. Common for first round over the years and even after byes too.
Looking forward to the rest of the games to get a true indication of where we are at.

Would like to experiment with a smaller team. Maybe only one of Caz and H. Insert some pace and excitement. Philp/Honey

I reckon we will build a decent year once we get into it. Id like to see us get more efficient and score more when we have momentum. We completely smashed the Dees for over a half but didnt get enough reward on the scoreboard. It will be something that gives us more confidence and make it easier to be consistent over 4qtrs. Im not sure harping on about slow starts and making it a major focus is going to resolve the issue long term.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:05 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 12019
Location: Sydney
sinbagger wrote:
Brently8 wrote:
2013: 0-3
2014: 0-4
2015: 0-3
2016: 0-4
2017: 0-2, 1-4
2018: 0-7
2019: 0-4
2020: 0-2 and counting.


So, this is currently our equal best start to a season since 2013?


:lol:

and :sad: . @#$%&! me, that's pluck-out-your-eyeballs bad.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:16 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Blue Vain wrote:
From memory Petracca started on Walsh, not Murphy.
Walsh was better value when he was moved to the wing. Petracca torched him in the first 10 minutes.
And yes, Ed did reduce Petraccas influence significantly.



At centre bounces if Cripps is being a scragged and Ed Curnow is doing a tagging job without a thought of actually trying to win the ball then a bigger bodied midfielder like Petracca had a field day on his lighter framed opponents like Walsh or Murphy. Coaches did not address this at all, but the problem is they don’t really have the cattle to address this - until we have a bigger bodied midfielder who can win his share of the ball to assist Cripps, we are essentially rooted and we’ll be exploited with these perennial slow starts.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:28 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 865
club29 wrote:
Looks like lots of major momentum swings over the weekend. Carlton wont be happy with their first 30mins. Pies and dees struggle to get it past halfway for over a half of football. Tigers slow start on the back of slow second half against us. I doubt this will be the norm for the whole carnival. Common for first round over the years and even after byes too.
Looking forward to the rest of the games to get a true indication of where we are at.

Would like to experiment with a smaller team. Maybe only one of Caz and H. Insert some pace and excitement. Philp/Honey

I reckon we will build a decent year once we get into it. Id like to see us get more efficient and score more when we have momentum. We completely smashed the Dees for over a half but didnt get enough reward on the scoreboard. It will be something that gives us more confidence and make it easier to be consistent over 4qtrs. Im not sure harping on about slow starts and making it a major focus is going to resolve the issue long term.

Agree with you re momentum swings. That’s pretty much what the game has become - a game of momentum swings. It’s about maximising your scoreboard impact when you’ve got it and mitigating the damage when you don’t have it. The Dees had the momentum early but we did absolutely nothing to stop it. Got smashed early in possessions and tackles. All we needed to do was show up with effort early - beat them to the ball, tackle hard, chase hard, pressure etc - and we did none of that which resulted in them walking in 7 straights goals. If we made it a scrap, maybe they only put 4 goals on us and then ultimately we win the game. Time to get ruthless in our intent otherwise we won’t achieve much more than a few token wins.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:02 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Blue Vain wrote:
From memory Petracca started on Walsh, not Murphy.
Walsh was better value when he was moved to the wing. Petracca torched him in the first 10 minutes.
And yes, Ed did reduce Petraccas influence significantly.


Your memory's going BV. Petracca started on Murph.

AGRO wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
From memory Petracca started on Walsh, not Murphy.
Walsh was better value when he was moved to the wing. Petracca torched him in the first 10 minutes.
And yes, Ed did reduce Petraccas influence significantly.



At centre bounces if Cripps is being a scragged and Ed Curnow is doing a tagging job without a thought of actually trying to win the ball then a bigger bodied midfielder like Petracca had a field day on his lighter framed opponents like Walsh or Murphy. Coaches did not address this at all, but the problem is they don’t really have the cattle to address this - until we have a bigger bodied midfielder who can win his share of the ball to assist Cripps, we are essentially rooted and we’ll be exploited with these perennial slow starts.


Crippa just shouldn't be physically matched for strength by someone of Olivers size. If he's lost strength due to the loss of body mass then that's a howler from Russell.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:26 pm 
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Robert Walls

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In 2018 we lost to Melbourne by 109 points.

In 2019 we lost to Melbourne by 5 points.

In 2020 we lost to Melbourne by 1 point.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:48 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 7749
Brently8 wrote:
david31 wrote:
jim wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
How many years now 0-3 to start a season ?


I haven't checked but is it every year since 2013?

Haven’t won either of our first two games since 2012. There’s maybe one or two 1-2 starts since then. It’s just so frustrating that we had the opportunity to get a win against a garbage side and we decided to not show for 1.5 quarters. The lack of pressure, intensity and effort in that first quarter was so far off the required standard that we shouldn’t expect to beat anyone playing like that.


2013: 0-3
2014: 0-4
2015: 0-3
2016: 0-4
2017: 0-2, 1-4
2018: 0-7
2019: 0-4
2020: 0-2 and counting.

Other than 2013, where we played finals, best we've done in other years were 7 wins in 2014, 16 and last year. Never great reading.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:52 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 8927
Location: Nth Fitzroy
Rexy wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
From memory Petracca started on Walsh, not Murphy.
Walsh was better value when he was moved to the wing. Petracca torched him in the first 10 minutes.
And yes, Ed did reduce Petraccas influence significantly.


Your memory's going BV. Petracca started on Murph.

AGRO wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
From memory Petracca started on Walsh, not Murphy.
Walsh was better value when he was moved to the wing. Petracca torched him in the first 10 minutes.
And yes, Ed did reduce Petraccas influence significantly.



At centre bounces if Cripps is being a scragged and Ed Curnow is doing a tagging job without a thought of actually trying to win the ball then a bigger bodied midfielder like Petracca had a field day on his lighter framed opponents like Walsh or Murphy. Coaches did not address this at all, but the problem is they don’t really have the cattle to address this - until we have a bigger bodied midfielder who can win his share of the ball to assist Cripps, we are essentially rooted and we’ll be exploited with these perennial slow starts.


Crippa just shouldn't be physically matched for strength by someone of Olivers size. If he's lost strength due to the loss of body mass then that's a howler from Russell.


The weight loss might be partly due to knee soreness and giving Cripps a chance at an extended career. Might take Cripps some games to get use to.
Cripps works his way into games. Rarely comes out of the blocks firing. Could that be a reason for slow starts and something we could rectify quickly if we concede that is a factor.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:23 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Cripps does start slow and if fact I think Bolts last year (1st game against Richmond?) tried to counter it by starting Cripps forward.

Maybe we should return to that (just for 15 mintues?)

Have
Ed
Kennedy/Jack/Dow
Walsh/Fisher/Setterfield?

Could McGovern give us 10 minutes in the centre at the start? Has pace and size?

Just a thought.

Try and contain that first 15 minutes rather than let them explode pout of the blocks?

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