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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:27 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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billc3 wrote:
I bet the inclusion of Polson will get a reaction.

I agree we are going early with the expectations.
Cripps, Walsh.. These guys are freaks... a difficult act to follow.
Midfielders need as much time as any.
Look at the best Midfielders who weren't top ten picks (thus showing plenty from the beginning) and they don't come onto the radar for 3-4 years.
That being said, we need to start seeing consistency from that group
(Fisher - ok, Cunners - injury!, SPS - GOOD , BUT put through the middle ?)
then next year Dow (shown enough to now, but keep stepping up), LOB (maybe always a winger).

Fingers crossed, but at the moment I think we're going ok,

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I’m one of the rare posters that believe kids need time and yes, they aren’t all a Walsh. However I also truly believe Polson has qualities and can play midfield, but for whatever reason like Stocker just hasn’t been played in the through there enough. Having said that, I liked what I have seen from Polson out of the backline, so I have faith in him.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:23 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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SurreyBlue wrote:
billc3 wrote:
I bet the inclusion of Polson will get a reaction.

I agree we are going early with the expectations.
Cripps, Walsh.. These guys are freaks... a difficult act to follow.
Midfielders need as much time as any.
Look at the best Midfielders who weren't top ten picks (thus showing plenty from the beginning) and they don't come onto the radar for 3-4 years.
That being said, we need to start seeing consistency from that group
(Fisher - ok, Cunners - injury!, SPS - GOOD , BUT put through the middle ?)
then next year Dow (shown enough to now, but keep stepping up), LOB (maybe always a winger).

Fingers crossed, but at the moment I think we're going ok,

Sent from my CPH1979 using Tapatalk


I’m one of the rare posters that believe kids need time and yes, they aren’t all a Walsh. However I also truly believe Polson has qualities and can play midfield, but for whatever reason like Stocker just hasn’t been played in the through there enough. Having said that, I liked what I have seen from Polson out of the backline, so I have faith in him.
I'm not a critic of Polson's. Some here have him as 'hopeless' and jump on him straight away. I thought he went well at that funky practice match yet he got bagged on here...
To me he seems to be a bit worried/tentative when he plays... He has to learn, he's young..

You get selected because you have talent... He's gotta learn how to use it rather than worry about what he may do wrong. Again, fingers crossed...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:58 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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SurreyBlue wrote:
I’m one of the rare posters that believe kids need time and yes, they aren’t all a Walsh. However I also truly believe Polson has qualities and can play midfield, but for whatever reason like Stocker just hasn’t been played in the through there enough. Having said that, I liked what I have seen from Polson out of the backline, so I have faith in him.


Polson doesn't play midfield because he can't find enough ball in the VFL let alone AFL where the game is quicker. No doubt the coaches love his attitude, but he needs more than that to become an AFL player.
As for Stocker, he'll have to improve his fitness significantly. Hopefully he wants it enough.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:54 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Good to see some positivity, though I am not sure I agree.

Nobody is saying everyone needs to be a freak like Cripps and Walsh, but some of our mids have IMO not shown enough so far.

God I hope I am wrong.

And, btw, POLSON??


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:05 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Blue Vain wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
I’m one of the rare posters that believe kids need time and yes, they aren’t all a Walsh. However I also truly believe Polson has qualities and can play midfield, but for whatever reason like Stocker just hasn’t been played in the through there enough. Having said that, I liked what I have seen from Polson out of the backline, so I have faith in him.


Polson doesn't play midfield because he can't find enough ball in the VFL let alone AFL where the game is quicker. No doubt the coaches love his attitude, but he needs more than that to become an AFL player.
As for Stocker, he'll have to improve his fitness significantly. Hopefully he wants it enough.


I don’t think Setterfield, SPS, Fishy or Dowe find it often enough just yet, but they are given goes. Cuningham is another. Stocker and Polson need to be rotated through the midfield and allowed to grow as much as the others. I feel coaches sometimes damage or kill youngsters careers with their blinkers on. As an example, Ed is a fine warrior and an exceptional athlete but he would be the first person I would replace in the starting midfield.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:10 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Great title this thread :thumbsup: :thanks: :smoking:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:42 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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CK95 wrote:
Let's have a frank dardew discussion about our list
frank dardew wrote:
Great title this thread :thumbsup: :thanks: :smoking:
Bit slow to the party Frank :lol:

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:08 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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There's only question marks on our midfield.

If midfielders develop quicker than talls then there may be reason to have these question marks.

But the reality of it all is that the kids are young, and with the like of Polson, speculative.

Age of midfield and underlined those who are bonafide mids...IMO

33. Murphy
31. E.Curnow
27. Newnes

25. Cripps FREAK
25. Martin ... will be too important as a forward but good mid
25. Lang ... delist
24. Gibbons ...

23. J.Silvagni ... tagger, but big enough for inside mid
23. Cuningham
23. Kennedy

22. Petrovski-Seton
22. Fisher
22. Setterfield
22. Polson

21. Dow already shown great signs at 19 and 20
21. OBrien


20. Walsh FREAK
20. Stocker ... I love his style of play...showed plenty playing in 2019
20. Cottrell

19. Philp his speed kills
19. Kemp another extractor like Cripps
19. Philips
19. Ramsay
19. Honey. something about this kid. Hard as nails.

There's a big group of mids, but as far as quality is concerned, its the 22yo and over who we need to look at and they need to show something this year.
At this point, it does look like there may be a few duds in that group, and I think its safe to say, Lang, Polson, Kennedy are not going to make it as mids, and alot of the above are outside running players...wingmen and possible HB's.

No doubt, like last year and the year before that, a couple of mature quality mids is the target whilst Dow, OBrien, Stocker, Kemp, Philp develop. I expect Murphy and Ed to bow out gracefully in 2021, or playing a peripheral /specialised role, perhaps tagger for Ed is about it.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:01 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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I'd go as far as saying add Cunningham, Cottrell and possibly Fisher to the list of probably won't make it as mids also.
And I'm starting to think I'd prefer SPS on half back or half forward with Setters on the wing.
O'brien will be halfback or wing and Dow needs to get some mojo back.
And I'd like to see Silvagni and Stocker with more midfield time to get a proper assessment.
That leaves a very young and light midfield, with two players ready to retire.
We can all agree Cripps has needed some support for about 2 years now. How long will this last for before he requests a trade back home?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:21 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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bondiblue wrote:

23. Cuningham
23. Kennedy



One question BB. Without looking at the stats and given these 2 players are at the same age now and I would say similar outputs, what tells you that Cunners will make it and Kennedy wouldn’t?

IMHO, Both have kicked multiple goals in games but not consistent enough. I would also argue one is made to play a more KP role and shouldn’t be, but putting all that aside, both have had their bodies fail them constantly and neither get it enough when onball as yet. Yet you say one will make it and not the other, why? Curious.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:26 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Also this quote about Michael Jordan needs to be written on the club walls as big as they can.
From the Netflix documentary - The Last Dance
Quote:
“Michael played every game as if it was his last, Ahmad Rashad of NBC Sports, says. “Every single game. It was never a day off. He knew that there was someone in that crowd that never saw him play before.”

A few players doing this will change the culture of the whole club, like Jordan did to the Bulls.
And hopefully some of the questionable players push through.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:34 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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In 2010-12 we had
Judd
Murphy

Ellard
Curnow
Carazzo
Robinson
Andy Collins
Gibbs
Simpson
Armfield
McLean
Yarran
Betts
Garlett
Houla

Apart from Judd and Murphy, not many stars. They played finals. They played their roles. They ran and carried and blitzed opposition teams with Andy Walker and Waite up forward. You don't have to have a group of stars in the midfield (although it does make it easier), the ones you have, have to be prepared to play the middle of the ground (AKA the midfield) and get it quick to McKay (Waite) and Curnow (Walker) instead of chippy chippy around the boundary a la 2013 onwards. That game against Richmond, they played reckless footy backed themselves forward of the ball and tackled like maniacs. Just like Richmond does now.
There is no doubt in my mind that Richmond learned a lot from that thrashing.

O'Brien is a running machine with a super left foot. How many times has he run and bounced in the last two years?
Cunningham is quick like Houla
SPS is Yarran in disguise with his skills but rarely takes the game on.
Cripps is Judd cloned and thank goodness he is playing for us and not against
Curnow is a better player now than he was then
Murphy is still a good player although he is almost ready to give it away.
Simmo ditto.
Eddie ditto
Gibbons is Carazzo-like
Kennedy or Jack can be Robbo-like
Setterfield can be Gibbs-like
Dow is going to be fine.
Martin is a jet.
I think Charlie will run through the middle like Kouta when he is ready with TDK playing ruck forward like a better version of Kreuzer..
This year's new crop is untried but have good reputations

It isn't the group. It's the way they were made to play until mid 2019. When they are allowed to play attacking, reckless footy and get teams on the back foot, they will make mistakes but things will turn around.

That team of good ordinary players beat Richmond by 120 odd points in Rd 15 2011. The week before they were beaten pretty badly by WCE. That Richmond team was a young version of the one that won in 2017.

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Last edited by Blue Sombrero on Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:38 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Blue Sombrero wrote:
In 2010-12 we had
Judd
Murphy

Ellard
Curnow
Carazzo
Robinson
Andy Collins
Gibbs
Simpson
Armfield
McLean
Yarran
Betts
Garlett
Houla

Apart from Judd and Murphy, not many stars. They played finals. They played their roles. They ran and carried and blitzed opposition teams with Andy Walker and Waite up forward. You don't have to have group of stars in the midfield (although it does make it easier), the ones you have, have to be prepared to play the middle of the ground (AKA the midfield) and get it quick to McKay (Waite) and Curnow (Walker) instead of chippy chippy around the boundary a la 2013 onwards. That game against Richmond, they played reckless footy and tackled like maniacs. Just like Richmond does now.
There is no doubt in my mind that they learned a lot from that thrashing.

O'Brien is a running machine with a super left foot. How many times has he run and bounced in the last two years?
Cunningham is quick like Houla
SPS is Yarran in disguise with his skills but rarely takes the game on.
Cripps is Judd cloned
Curnow is a better player now than he was then
Murphy is still a good player although he is almost ready to give it away.
Simmo ditto.
Eddie ditto
Gibbons is Carazzo-like
Kennedy or Jack can be Robbo-like
Setterfield can be Gibbs-like


It isn't the group. It's the way they were made to play until mid 2019. When they are allowed to play attacking, reckless footy and get teams on the back foot, they will make mistakes but things will turn around.

That team of good ordinary players beat Richmond by 120 odd points in Rd 15 2011. The week before they were beaten pretty badly by WCE. That Richmond team was a young version of the one that won in 2016.


Once again. :clap: :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:58 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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2017
:oops:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:51 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Blue Sombrero wrote:
In 2010-12 we had
Judd
Murphy

Ellard
Curnow
Carazzo
Robinson
Andy Collins
Gibbs
Simpson
Armfield
McLean
Yarran
Betts
Garlett
Houla

Apart from Judd and Murphy, not many stars. They played finals. They played their roles. They ran and carried and blitzed opposition teams with Andy Walker and Waite up forward. You don't have to have a group of stars in the midfield (although it does make it easier), the ones you have, have to be prepared to play the middle of the ground (AKA the midfield) and get it quick to McKay (Waite) and Curnow (Walker) instead of chippy chippy around the boundary a la 2013 onwards. That game against Richmond, they played reckless footy backed themselves forward of the ball and tackled like maniacs. Just like Richmond does now.
There is no doubt in my mind that Richmond learned a lot from that thrashing.

O'Brien is a running machine with a super left foot. How many times has he run and bounced in the last two years?
Cunningham is quick like Houla
SPS is Yarran in disguise with his skills but rarely takes the game on.
Cripps is Judd cloned and thank goodness he is playing for us and not against
Curnow is a better player now than he was then
Murphy is still a good player although he is almost ready to give it away.
Simmo ditto.
Eddie ditto
Gibbons is Carazzo-like
Kennedy or Jack can be Robbo-like
Setterfield can be Gibbs-like
Dow is going to be fine.
Martin is a jet.
I think Charlie will run through the middle like Kouta when he is ready with TDK playing ruck forward like a better version of Kreuzer..
This year's new crop is untried but have good reputations

It isn't the group. It's the way they were made to play until mid 2019. When they are allowed to play attacking, reckless footy and get teams on the back foot, they will make mistakes but things will turn around.

That team of good ordinary players beat Richmond by 120 odd points in Rd 15 2011. The week before they were beaten pretty badly by WCE. That Richmond team was a young version of the one that won in 2017.


So what are you saying?
The list is almost as good as the 2010-2012 list that was only just good enough to get into the finals twice in that time and win 1 game. And again in 2013.
And when Judd (AKA Cripps) retired we dropped back down to the bottom and forced a full list rebuild due to the lack of talent.
Well that's a scary thought.

Unfortunately, I personally don't share your optimism on some of those player comparisons. And to be frank, that game style we had with the 'mosquito' fleet. Could not be produced with this team, there are too many slow players and players that lack the basic fundamentals. Like hitting a target.

Out of interest. How many players in our team would you feel comfortable that if the ball was in their hands they would either hit a target, kick a goal or do something special to change the game?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:21 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
Sidefx wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
In 2010-12 we had
Judd
Murphy

Ellard
Curnow
Carazzo
Robinson
Andy Collins
Gibbs
Simpson
Armfield
McLean
Yarran
Betts
Garlett
Houla

Apart from Judd and Murphy, not many stars. They played finals. They played their roles. They ran and carried and blitzed opposition teams with Andy Walker and Waite up forward. You don't have to have a group of stars in the midfield (although it does make it easier), the ones you have, have to be prepared to play the middle of the ground (AKA the midfield) and get it quick to McKay (Waite) and Curnow (Walker) instead of chippy chippy around the boundary a la 2013 onwards. That game against Richmond, they played reckless footy backed themselves forward of the ball and tackled like maniacs. Just like Richmond does now.
There is no doubt in my mind that Richmond learned a lot from that thrashing.

O'Brien is a running machine with a super left foot. How many times has he run and bounced in the last two years?
Cunningham is quick like Houla
SPS is Yarran in disguise with his skills but rarely takes the game on.
Cripps is Judd cloned and thank goodness he is playing for us and not against
Curnow is a better player now than he was then
Murphy is still a good player although he is almost ready to give it away.
Simmo ditto.
Eddie ditto
Gibbons is Carazzo-like
Kennedy or Jack can be Robbo-like
Setterfield can be Gibbs-like
Dow is going to be fine.
Martin is a jet.
I think Charlie will run through the middle like Kouta when he is ready with TDK playing ruck forward like a better version of Kreuzer..
This year's new crop is untried but have good reputations

It isn't the group. It's the way they were made to play until mid 2019. When they are allowed to play attacking, reckless footy and get teams on the back foot, they will make mistakes but things will turn around.

That team of good ordinary players beat Richmond by 120 odd points in Rd 15 2011. The week before they were beaten pretty badly by WCE. That Richmond team was a young version of the one that won in 2017.


So what are you saying? I am saying that this list is nowhere near as bad as some are saying
The list is almost as good as the 2010-2012 list that was only just good enough to get into the finals twice in that time and win 1 game. And again in 2013. If Anrew Walker had ben paid that free they would have played in the prelim and won. Once you are in the GF, anything can and does happen.
And when Judd (AKA Cripps) retired we dropped back down to the bottom and forced a full list rebuild due to the lack of talent. We had a shit coach and a shit game plan. We have more talent now than then and hopefully a better coach
Well that's a scary thought. That's what Richmond said in the lead up to 2017

Unfortunately, I personally don't share your optimism on some of those player comparisons.That's OK. We all look at things differently and that's why it's fun coming on here where people like yourself argue a solid case instad of attacking the poster. And to be frank, that game style we had with the 'mosquito' fleet. Could not be produced with this team, there are too many slow players Armfield, Yarran and Garlett were the only genuine speedsters in that lot. Eddie was quick but stayed at home. You only need a couple to break the lines like Simmo, who is one paced but has a tank and the guts to take the game on, SPS or Fisher who are pretty quick in a straight line The ball can do the rest.and players that lack the basic fundamentals. Like hitting a target. Teams hit targets when they are in the clear. Even Richmond collapsed under the pressure in Rd 1 after getting off to a flier. We lost that game after winning 3/4 of it.

Out of interest. How many players in our team would you feel comfortable that if the ball was in their hands they would either hit a target, kick a goal or do something special to change the game? I would feel pretty uncomfortable that they would all do it 100% of the time, which might be your expectation. Look at Richmond's disposal stats in the first quarter against the next three quarters. Teams make mistakes under physical and scoreboard pressure. When we were outscoring them, we made fewer mistakes and they made more. In the first when they blitzed us, they made fewer and we made more. Let me say that I am comfortable all our players can operate at a level of efficiency in the 70-80% range at some stage of the season. They won't always do it every week but we don't need them to all do it all the time. Even Cripps had three shite weeks in a row last year by his standards.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:25 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22935
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
In 2010-12 we had
Judd
Murphy

Ellard
Curnow
Carazzo
Robinson
Andy Collins
Gibbs
Simpson
Armfield
McLean
Yarran
Betts
Garlett
Houla

Apart from Judd and Murphy, not many stars. They played finals. They played their roles. They ran and carried and blitzed opposition teams with Andy Walker and Waite up forward. You don't have to have a group of stars in the midfield (although it does make it easier), the ones you have, have to be prepared to play the middle of the ground (AKA the midfield) and get it quick to McKay (Waite) and Curnow (Walker) instead of chippy chippy around the boundary a la 2013 onwards. That game against Richmond, they played reckless footy backed themselves forward of the ball and tackled like maniacs. Just like Richmond does now.
There is no doubt in my mind that Richmond learned a lot from that thrashing.

O'Brien is a running machine with a super left foot. How many times has he run and bounced in the last two years?
Cunningham is quick like Houla
SPS is Yarran in disguise with his skills but rarely takes the game on.
Cripps is Judd cloned and thank goodness he is playing for us and not against
Curnow is a better player now than he was then
Murphy is still a good player although he is almost ready to give it away.
Simmo ditto.
Eddie ditto
Gibbons is Carazzo-like
Kennedy or Jack can be Robbo-like
Setterfield can be Gibbs-like
Dow is going to be fine.
Martin is a jet.
I think Charlie will run through the middle like Kouta when he is ready with TDK playing ruck forward like a better version of Kreuzer..
This year's new crop is untried but have good reputations

It isn't the group. It's the way they were made to play until mid 2019. When they are allowed to play attacking, reckless footy and get teams on the back foot, they will make mistakes but things will turn around.

That team of good ordinary players beat Richmond by 120 odd points in Rd 15 2011. The week before they were beaten pretty badly by WCE. That Richmond team was a young version of the one that won in 2017.


So what are you saying? I am saying that this list is nowhere near as bad as some are saying
The list is almost as good as the 2010-2012 list that was only just good enough to get into the finals twice in that time and win 1 game. And again in 2013. If Anrew Walker had ben paid that free they would have played in the prelim and won. Once you are in the GF, anything can and does happen.
And when Judd (AKA Cripps) retired we dropped back down to the bottom and forced a full list rebuild due to the lack of talent. We had a shit coach and a shit game plan. We have more talent now than then and hopefully a better coach
Well that's a scary thought. That's what Richmond said in the lead up to 2017

Unfortunately, I personally don't share your optimism on some of those player comparisons.That's OK. We all look at things differently and that's why it's fun coming on here where people like yourself argue a solid case instad of attacking the poster. And to be frank, that game style we had with the 'mosquito' fleet. Could not be produced with this team, there are too many slow players Armfield, Yarran and Garlett were the only genuine speedsters in that lot. Eddie was quick but stayed at home. You only need a couple to break the lines like Simmo, who is one paced but has a tank and the guts to take the game on, SPS or Fisher who are pretty quick in a straight line The ball can do the rest.and players that lack the basic fundamentals. Like hitting a target. Teams hit targets when they are in the clear. Even Richmond collapsed under the pressure in Rd 1 after getting off to a flier. We lost that game after winning 3/4 of it.

Out of interest. How many players in our team would you feel comfortable that if the ball was in their hands they would either hit a target, kick a goal or do something special to change the game? I would feel pretty uncomfortable that they would all do it 100% of the time, which might be your expectation. Look at Richmond's disposal stats in the first quarter against the next three quarters. Teams make mistakes under physical and scoreboard pressure. When we were outscoring them, we made fewer mistakes and they made more. In the first when they blitzed us, they made fewer and we made more. Let me say that I am comfortable all our players can operate at a level of efficiency in the 70-80% range at some stage of the season. They won't always do it every week but we don't need them to all do it all the time. Even Cripps had three shite weeks in a row last year by his standards.


I find your argument sound BS.

That Richmond team in 2011 was the foundation of the 2017 Premiership team.
Things take time.

Carlton supporters backed the rebuild, and knew it would take time.
Carlton supporters are not the most patient.
The 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters in round 1 2020 don't mean much to the impatient.
You have to look at the positives and the negatives...in balance.

We have the foundations for a great team, and the time to attract a couple of great players to help us over the line.

I doubt Murphy, Simmo, Kreuzer and Ed will be part of the next Carlton Premiership team, but will be an important part for the kids' journey who will...IMO

I expect a fire in the belly and a strong desire, let alone belief to win a lot of games this year.
Some of the player stats in round 1 need to improve and those players know who they are.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:43 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Posts: 5465
Blue Sombrero wrote:

So what are you saying? I am saying that this list is nowhere near as bad as some are saying
The list is almost as good as the 2010-2012 list that was only just good enough to get into the finals twice in that time and win 1 game. And again in 2013. If Anrew Walker had ben paid that free they would have played in the prelim and won. Once you are in the GF, anything can and does happen.
And when Judd (AKA Cripps) retired we dropped back down to the bottom and forced a full list rebuild due to the lack of talent. We had a shit coach and a shit game plan. We have more talent now than then and hopefully a better coach
Well that's a scary thought. That's what Richmond said in the lead up to 2017

Unfortunately, I personally don't share your optimism on some of those player comparisons.That's OK. We all look at things differently and that's why it's fun coming on here where people like yourself argue a solid case instad of attacking the poster. And to be frank, that game style we had with the 'mosquito' fleet. Could not be produced with this team, there are too many slow players Armfield, Yarran and Garlett were the only genuine speedsters in that lot. Eddie was quick but stayed at home. You only need a couple to break the lines like Simmo, who is one paced but has a tank and the guts to take the game on, SPS or Fisher who are pretty quick in a straight line The ball can do the rest.and players that lack the basic fundamentals. Like hitting a target. Teams hit targets when they are in the clear. Even Richmond collapsed under the pressure in Rd 1 after getting off to a flier. We lost that game after winning 3/4 of it.

Out of interest. How many players in our team would you feel comfortable that if the ball was in their hands they would either hit a target, kick a goal or do something special to change the game? I would feel pretty uncomfortable that they would all do it 100% of the time, which might be your expectation. Look at Richmond's disposal stats in the first quarter against the next three quarters. Teams make mistakes under physical and scoreboard pressure. When we were outscoring them, we made fewer mistakes and they made more. In the first when they blitzed us, they made fewer and we made more. Let me say that I am comfortable all our players can operate at a level of efficiency in the 70-80% range at some stage of the season. They won't always do it every week but we don't need them to all do it all the time. Even Cripps had three shite weeks in a row last year by his standards.

They are all fair points.
And I don't expect our players to hit targets 100% of the time (unless you only average 5 disposals a game). But when the game is in the balance or we are starting to get run over, we severely lack enough players who can rise to the pressure and get their jobs done. We have seen this week in and week out over the last umpteenth years but more noticeable the last 2 years, no matter how talented they were drafted to be. And our midfield has been the blatantly obvious area that requires improvement. The connection from half back to actually hitting a target in the forward 50 and the defensive pressure when the ball is rebounded out of our forward 50 is our weakest parts of the game IMO. And not far behind is our clearances to players in space and if we want to be compared to Richmond then the rushing of players through the centre to apply the offensive forward pressure and rushing back defensively to create turnovers is some what non existent as a whole.
Again, IMO I believe this is because of two things:
1. Lack of skill to hit targets, especially when the rush is on (probably the biggest way we get caught out is on the turnover through the middle followed by bombing into the forward 50 rather than working the ball around until they can hit a target).
2. Having the players in the middle that have that true burst speed to tackle and apply pressure and creativity/vision when they have the ball to hit players in the forward 50 (like Richmond do).

For the round 1 game I think we did well to hold them back and we appeared to have control of the game at stages (to little advantage though). But apart from a quick burst for about 5min at the start of the 4th, we were never really a chance of winning. And I walked away from that one feeling like we have not progressed at all to be honest. Especially because they would've been about a month behind us in their working loads due to finals. The two stats from that game that back my points are tackles and disposal efficiency, both areas we always lack and where we got smashed again.

And I also get we are still a young team and we haven't got the Richmond, Collingwood and GWS midfield players that are always doing freakish things to the advantage of the team. Like tapping to advantage and having players knowing where teammates are so they can blindly hit targets. But when are we going to see signs of this kind of play starting to build with these players. Although this type of footy takes time to develop, have we go the right players that can do this. Cripps, Walsh, Martin and SPS can (even though I'd like to see Martin at half forward and SPS at half back), but for me everyone else in the middle has question marks above their heads and are a long way behind them.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:01 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Kicking efficiency is one thing but it makes a big difference if your ineffective kick goes to a contest and stoppage, versus straight down the throat of a rebound defender.
This comes back to kicking to advantage and playing the percentages.
Not to mention the forwards creating space/blocking and leading to the right places

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:57 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Martin is not quick
Cotchin is not quick
Pendlebury is not quick
Sidebottom is not quick
Ablett is not quick
Hurd is not quick
Fyfe is not quick
Bont is not quick

They are all pretty clean with the footy but nont of them consistently go at 80%
Pendles would probably be the closest.

There are lots of one paced good footballers out there. They compensate in various manners by skill levels, volume of possessions, brute strength, vision.... Martin is probably the best player in the comp at the moment but in 2011 he was still nowhere near the beast or player he is today and he was drafted in 2009. Yes, he was pretty good but he took a few seasons to dominate. Our kids are still boys by comparison.

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