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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:31 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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I have found the COVID enforced isolation has made me see things, and think about things, in a different light.

And my views on the football club and its list is no different.

I know it is a cliche but where do we think we are at, list wise? (I prefer to focus on one thing as there are so many one could focus on, and talking about all aspects of a football club at once I feel in unwieldy).

I think the list is in good shape but I am not sure our young midfield group is as good as I maybe thought (hoped) it was. I am just not sure there are enough ball-winners in that group.

I think our collection of young talls is terrific (though maybe lacks a bit of depth), and I think one of the problems with the list (small forwards) has been addressed with the addition of Martin. I think he and Cuningham make two very good small forwards.

But the midfield is a problem...

- Cuningham looks more a forward than a proven ball winning midfielder
- Kennedy looks too slow
- Fisher is a decent player but his size holds him back from being a dominant ball winning on-baller
- SPS, perhaps out of necessity looks like being HBF instead of a true on-baller
- LOB if he makes it as a midfielder will be a winger not a ball winning on-baller
- Dow while he showed some good signs before lockdown still looked to lack composure and his ball use still wasn't terrific. I think he could yet make it as an on-baller, but there is no guarantee.
- Stocker, undecided, too early.
- Lang has been a bust
- Newnes is a short term option only I think
- Willo maybe can go on a wing, he shapes as a possible shining light
- Walsh is obviously the star to assist Cripps
- Philp, Kemp etc too early too tell
- Gibbons goes OK in midfield, but not sure he will ever be a dominant on-baller
- J.Silvagni, maybe can be an on-baller? But right now the club seem keen to play him as a forward

Setterfield is the obvious one for the midfield, but so far he has struggled to impose himself in the middle of the ground. I know it is still early days for him though, and he is showing good signs on a wing. I guess the question is when will he move more into the middle?

That list above is really about it.

I reckon if the club were giving themselves grades the midfield would be the one part of the ground they'd give themselves a D grade. I don't even rate it C-. Obviously it is still early days but at this very point in time I don't see many of those kids above stepping up in midfield. Let's hope the latest batch, Kemp, Philp etc make the grade in time.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:48 am 
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Geoff Southby
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I think you'll find the club rates the midfield higher than everyone else, otherwise they would've put more effort into it over the last 2 drafts/trade period.

But I agree with your assessment of the players.
We have a lot of outside mids/wingers/HBFs and not enough grunt in the middle.
On the plus side, we will roughly have 2/3rds of the season left (if they resume in May) until the next draft.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:31 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Agree with your comments on the midfield.
Hopefully we will be pleasantly surprised with Philp and Kemp.
It's a real pity that Dow hasn't come on as hoped. I was also hoping that Setterfield would have shown more in the preseason matches and Rd 1 against Richmond.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:03 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Sidefx wrote:
I think you'll find the club rates the midfield higher than everyone else, otherwise they would've put more effort into it over the last 2 drafts/trade period.

But I agree with your assessment of the players.
We have a lot of outside mids/wingers/HBFs and not enough grunt in the middle.
On the plus side, we will roughly have 2/3rds of the season left (if they resume in May) until the next draft.


But I think they did focus on this in the last draft.

And they did try and get Coniglio.

I reckon they have brought in plenty of mids, it's just that most haven't been good enough, thus far at least.

Overall, I think SOS did well, but not exceptional. He made some good trades, had some clever picks, got the talls right, but didn't get the mids right, and the GWS experiment was largely a fail. I know he didn't give much up for much of the GWS dead wood, but regardless only Plowman and Marchbank look like being good long term players. Aside from those two, basically it was a whole lot of dead wood. And yeah I know the argument that this was just to protect the kids, but even still, that is a helluva lot of dead wood.

I reckon we have to hope Setterfield, Williamson, and Kemp/Philp become stars.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:04 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Let's have a frank dardew discussion about our list

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:07 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Here is a sobering thought.

Cripps was drafted in the 2013 draft.

How many good REAL mids have we drafted since then, who have performed really well?

The answer is (arguably) just the one (Walsh- who was a Pick 1). Hard to bugger that up, right?


Last edited by Paddycripps on Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:08 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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CK95 wrote:
Let's have a frank dardew discussion about our list


I don't know who that is.


Last edited by Paddycripps on Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:37 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:28 pm
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Paddycripps wrote:

I reckon we have to hope Setterfield, Williamson, and Kemp/Philp become stars.


Setterfield was disappointing in the preseason matches and Rd 1 against Richmond - I'm not feeling so confident about him being a gun player now. Great to have Williamson get over his back injury however I don't consider him a potential 'star' player. Good young player however doubt he will become elite. Fingers crossed on Philp and Kemp.
I think we should consider going after Ollie Wines in this years draft providing we get him for a reasonable price. Cripps needs support and Ed Curnow turns 31 in Nov.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:26 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
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Humpers wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:

I reckon we have to hope Setterfield, Williamson, and Kemp/Philp become stars.


Setterfield was disappointing in the preseason matches and Rd 1 against Richmond - I'm not feeling so confident about him being a gun player now. Great to have Williamson get over his back injury however I don't consider him a potential 'star' player. Good young player however doubt he will become elite. Fingers crossed on Philp and Kemp.
I think we should consider going after Ollie Wines in this years draft providing we get him for a reasonable price. Cripps needs support and Ed Curnow turns 31 in Nov.


Agreed on Wines.

I think this has been one of the things holding us back, just the inability to get topline proven talent through the door. Martin looks the goods, but McG just doesn't seem to stay on he park, and when he is on it doesn't produce enough. Has all the talent in the world but ...

SOS even said as much, that we would see real improvement when the proven talent comes in, but then he wasn't able to land Coniglio or Papsmear. I am not necessarily blaming SOS for this. I mean the AFL it would appear intervened on Papsmear. But at the end of the day we need these sorts of players and we didn't get them, Martin aside. The big question will be whether we can land such a player this year- ideally a mid. So yes, Wines would be good. He isn't quick, but then neither is Cripps, and I believe Wines can still play (right???).

You have to imagine we have plenty of cap space, surely? (granted, all that might change now with COVID wrecking everything).


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:26 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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CK95 wrote:
Let's have a frank dardew discussion about our list


:lol:

Paddycripps wrote:
Let's have a frank discussion about our list


I think you're ignoring Tom De Koning. Easily the club's most exciting prospect. 21 in July. Not yet 100kg. Firmly believe he's 18 months away from being Carlton's most important player.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:27 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Humpers wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:

I reckon we have to hope Setterfield, Williamson, and Kemp/Philp become stars.


Setterfield was disappointing in the preseason matches and Rd 1 against Richmond - I'm not feeling so confident about him being a gun player now. Great to have Williamson get over his back injury however I don't consider him a potential 'star' player. Good young player however doubt he will become elite. Fingers crossed on Philp and Kemp.
I think we should consider going after Ollie Wines in this years draft providing we get him for a reasonable price. Cripps needs support and Ed Curnow turns 31 in Nov.


Agreed on Setterfield too. In so far as I went to the Brisbane game last month and thought Setterfield was terrible. But he was showing good signs late last year. I dunno. Just frustrating isn't it. The inability for this club to get good midfielders.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:29 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
DocSherrin III wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Let's have a frank dardew discussion about our list


:lol:

Paddycripps wrote:
Let's have a frank discussion about our list


I think you're ignoring Tom De Koning. Easily the club's most exciting prospect. 21 in July. Not yet 100kg. Firmly believe he's 18 months away from being Carlton's most important player.


No, I mentioned our talls and have him in the group :

Charlie.
Harry.
McG (in theory).
Weitering.
Marchbank.
TDK.

That is a ripping list.

It is the midfield that worries me.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:53 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Humpers wrote:
I was also hoping that Setterfield would have shown more in the preseason matches and Rd 1 against Richmond.


He’s been rubbish since too.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:55 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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GWS wrote:
Humpers wrote:
I was also hoping that Setterfield would have shown more in the preseason matches and Rd 1 against Richmond.


He’s been rubbish since too.


Hasn't had a touch.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:56 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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What's the go with McG? Seems to get injured every time he goes for a big leap.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:14 am 
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John Nicholls
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DocSherrin III wrote:

I think you're ignoring Tom De Koning. Easily the club's most exciting prospect. 21 in July. Not yet 100kg. Firmly believe he's 18 months away from being Carlton's most important player.


Watch Geelong snap him him from underneath us.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:30 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Paddycripps wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
I think you'll find the club rates the midfield higher than everyone else, otherwise they would've put more effort into it over the last 2 drafts/trade period.

But I agree with your assessment of the players.
We have a lot of outside mids/wingers/HBFs and not enough grunt in the middle.
On the plus side, we will roughly have 2/3rds of the season left (if they resume in May) until the next draft.


But I think they did focus on this in the last draft.

And they did try and get Coniglio.

I reckon they have brought in plenty of mids, it's just that most haven't been good enough, thus far at least.

Overall, I think SOS did well, but not exceptional. He made some good trades, had some clever picks, got the talls right, but didn't get the mids right, and the GWS experiment was largely a fail. I know he didn't give much up for much of the GWS dead wood, but regardless only Plowman and Marchbank look like being good long term players. Aside from those two, basically it was a whole lot of dead wood. And yeah I know the argument that this was just to protect the kids, but even still, that is a helluva lot of dead wood.

I reckon we have to hope Setterfield, Williamson, and Kemp/Philp become stars.

The last two drafts we put too many eggs in the one basket going for two mature players, Shiel and Coniglio.
When we really needed to be going for the upcoming B+ footballers to help out Cripps immediately. i.e. Zak Jones

Setters will be an outside player at best or on the wing.
Williamson will never play midfield.
Kemp looks like he could be a Cripps like gun in a few years, but not now when we need him.
Philp is a chance pick, like Cunningham was.

At best, the midfield drafting for the last 2 years will replace Murphy and Ed. Still leaving a massive depth hole in the middle.


Last edited by Sidefx on Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:30 am 
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Geoff Southby
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robertbb wrote:
DocSherrin III wrote:

I think you're ignoring Tom De Koning. Easily the club's most exciting prospect. 21 in July. Not yet 100kg. Firmly believe he's 18 months away from being Carlton's most important player.


Watch Geelong snap him him from underneath us.


Yep and with help from the AFL.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:45 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Our midfield crop is fine. They just need to develop and be developed. We have a very exciting mix coming through to support Cripps. Walsh, Cuningham, Polson, Dow, Fisher, Setterfield, Kennedy, SPS, O’Brien, Stocker, Philip - all bring something different with outside / inside mix. Add players such as Kemp, Williamson, Ramsey, Honey, and FA or 2 into that mix next year and it really has quality written all over it. What we need to do is find the next run with/shut down mid (hopefully from this group).
Our KP players are one of the youngest and best in the land and in 2 years will be the envy of the comp.
We haven’t even seen anywhere near what Macreade, DeKoning, Marchbank will do! Bloody scary!!
It’s the injury curse and the kids bodies having to play like men that concerns me. Need to manage and manage well.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:02 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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I bet the inclusion of Polson will get a reaction.

I agree we are going early with the expectations.
Cripps, Walsh.. These guys are freaks... a difficult act to follow.
Midfielders need as much time as any.
Look at the best Midfielders who weren't top ten picks (thus showing plenty from the beginning) and they don't come onto the radar for 3-4 years.
That being said, we need to start seeing consistency from that group
(Fisher - ok, Cunners - injury!, SPS - GOOD , BUT put through the middle ?)
then next year Dow (shown enough to now, but keep stepping up), LOB (maybe always a winger).

Fingers crossed, but at the moment I think we're going ok,

Sent from my CPH1979 using Tapatalk

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