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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:10 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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keogh wrote:
It’s early days but that was shit.
We have too many average players. How long have I been saying that. The results are testimony to my negativity



We lost a game with Cripps, Betts, Murphy, Curnow, McGovern, McKay, SPS, Plowman, O'Brien, Marchbank missing from our best 22.
A starting midfield of Setterfield, Fisher and Walsh. Kreuzer and Martin playing 43 and 45% game time respectively. And you think your constant negativity has suddenly been vindicated? :lol:

Let's wait until we're a few games into the season proper before we run around screaming hysterically.

FWIW, I though Martin showed plenty. A threat in the air, hard at the contest and a good finisher. Fish did some nice things and once again our defence was good.
Hopefully Setterfield was unwell because he showed very little. An opportunity to play strong midfield time and his contested stuff was very poor. As was his defensive running which is usually quite good.
Ed spent plenty of time outside the centre squad which was probably a mistake. I'm glad they gave the kids opportunities but they probably needed a mature body in there with them.
Jack Silvagni? He's not secure enough in the best 22 to be serving up that rubbish and keeping a spot. 84% game time, 11 possessions at 36% efficiency and missing a goal from straight in front. Nah, not good enough.

Personally, I suspect I'm going through a "Shallow Hal" phase. I see Gibbons as a short, slowish, hard working flanker. Yet the players seem to view him as a 200cm, high marking, quick key forward. Maybe I need to get my eyes checked.

Bring on next Sunday. With a few players returning and a much stronger midfield, I'm expecting a strong showing and an optimistic lead in to Round 1.

Edit. Congrats to the WA supporters for getting out to watch the boys. It looked like we had plenty of the crowd in navy blue.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:14 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
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Crippa wrote:
keogh wrote:
It’s early days but that was shit.
We have too many average players. How long have I been saying that. The results are testimony to my negativity
Poison dumb footballer
Cunningham great skills but goes missing lacks mongrel
Newnes Saints fans weren’t devastated when he left. That says it all
Setterfield and Kennedy were recruited as inside mids because of their size and their lack of pace
They simply don’t get enough of their own ball. Eventually the injury excuse will run dry
Dow is a dumb footballer
Silvangi always has a crack but isn’t quite good enough


There also seemed to be no game plan
Freo clearly had one

We will win a few games but from watching that crap we won’t improve much from last year
Interesting that Teague looks like he is already losing his hair
Welcome to 2020


Im not sure which dumb footballer you are referring to (we have several) but I think killing them is a tad harsh.


Polson obviously
He was handed a 2 year contract which ends this year on what basis
Some blokes at this club have been given plenty of chances but are simply not good enough for AFL
And yet other players seem to have to fight tooth and nail to get a practice game
Polson is Gartlett Mark 2. Let’s try him in defence and see if that works.
Yet someone like Cottrell who showed something last year in defence in the twos doesn’t get the opportunity to see how he would go in a trial game.
It’s hard to understand the coaching rationale.
Ditto Lang who should be playing suburban footy but plays as a permanent small forward.
Owies showed more in that position in the twos last year but was on the other side of the Nullarbor yesterday.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:36 am 
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Banned

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WOW wrote:
If Carlton want to take that next step then it’s players like Fisher, Dow, O’brien, Setterfield and Cunningham who will be our barometers. Invested a lot in them.Cannot afford to rely on players like Murphy and Curnow through the midfield to win games.

If they don’t come on then I am afraid it could be back to square one.

I’ll dismiss last night and hope it was an aberration. It is only pre season.


No need to go back to square one - we got the cake and need to fill holes obviously. Probably some outgoing trades end of year if it doesn't pan out as it should.

Another crack at Papley maybe we need a player like him.

Brad Crouch, Brayden Fiorini, Jye Caldwell, Jack Graham are out of contract this year.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:42 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
It’s early days but that was shit.
We have too many average players. How long have I been saying that. The results are testimony to my negativity



We lost a game with Cripps, Betts, Murphy, Curnow, McGovern, McKay, SPS, Plowman, O'Brien, Marchbank missing from our best 22.
A starting midfield of Setterfield, Fisher and Walsh. Kreuzer and Martin playing 43 and 45% game time respectively. And you think your constant negativity has suddenly been vindicated? :lol:

Let's wait until we're a few games into the season proper before we run around screaming hysterically.

FWIW, I though Martin showed plenty. A threat in the air, hard at the contest and a good finisher. Fish did some nice things and once again our defence was good.
Hopefully Setterfield was unwell because he showed very little. An opportunity to play strong midfield time and his contested stuff was very poor. As was his defensive running which is usually quite good.
Ed spent plenty of time outside the centre squad which was probably a mistake. I'm glad they gave the kids opportunities but they probably needed a mature body in there with them.
Jack Silvagni? He's not secure enough in the best 22 to be serving up that rubbish and keeping a spot. 84% game time, 11 possessions at 36% efficiency and missing a goal from straight in front. Nah, not good enough.

Personally, I suspect I'm going through a "Shallow Hal" phase. I see Gibbons as a short, slowish, hard working flanker. Yet the players seem to view him as a 200cm, high marking, quick key forward. Maybe I need to get my eyes checked.

Bring on next Sunday. With a few players returning and a much stronger midfield, I'm expecting a strong showing and an optimistic lead in to Round 1.

Edit. Congrats to the WA supporters for getting out to watch the boys. It looked like we had plenty of the crowd in navy blue.


To be in contention you need a midfield rotation of 8 at least.
Other than Fisher and Walsh the rest were terrible
Kennedy and Setterfield do not get enough of their own ball which they have to because they lack pace.
Dow seems to have trouble reading the play.
These are the blokes that the club have heavily invested in to provide solid backup to Cripps and co in the midfield.
We won’t improve unless these blokes step up

Don’t forget BV Freo had a few out as well
Pearce, Walters, Fyfe etc
Freo had a game plan of short forward kicks. What was our game plan.
A very ordinary effort


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:00 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Whatever our game plan was, our skill level did not allow us to execute it.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:09 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
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Pros:

Weitering and Casboult.
Martin looks like a difference maker.
Polson was surprisingly good.
Philp showed an intensity (when he came on) that was sadly missing from most of his teammates.
Dow was encouraging. Gibbons pretty good.

Cons:

Very disappointing performance against a team at a similar level to us. The skill level under some semblance of AFL pressure was very poor.
Under Teague, we've had a bad habit of starting slowly.
Don't know if it was intensity, but looked smaller and slower than the opposition.
Forward entries were terrible. And even when we had a player in space out the back (around 5 times), still seemed to find a way to butcher the opportunity.
Set shot kicking. They didn't miss. We couldn't hit. Didn't help that nearly every Freo goal after quarter time seemed to come directly from umpire intervention. Those 2 'reversals' were absolutely ridiculous.
Newnes. If that's the best we can see from an experienced AFL footballer, then please give me LOB instead.
Setterfield. I'm a huge fan. But he was invisible. Needs to play far more inside, especially when Cripps is absent.
SOJ. Unfortunately hasn't improved either his marking or his set shot kicking. I like his contesting, but not sure it's enough.
Cuningham. Wanted to see more. 2 sitters he should have nailed.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:29 am 
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Craig Bradley

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Blue Vain wrote:
Personally, I suspect I'm going through a "Shallow Hal" phase. I see Gibbons as a short, slowish, hard working flanker. Yet the players seem to view him as a 200cm, high marking, quick key forward. Maybe I need to get my eyes checked.


I wonder if it's because he's got greater footy smarts and work-rate, and so actually presents, when others won't.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:38 am 
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Geoff Southby
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The result doesn’t matter in the slightest, but we do look for things in these games to give us optimism. Aside from Doc getting through the match unscathed, it’s hard to find anything positive to say about last night. Our skills were every bit as bad, and our game style as devoid of method/purpose, as under Bolts.

I hope Teague knows what he’s doing. I really do.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:59 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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A least we know we have a plan B, his initials are Patrick Cripps.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:36 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Back to earth with a thud hey ! first in,best dressed.Freo were in for the ball first simple as that...............we trailed 'em in all day.Cant win a football game like that.
Anyhow,Weitering ( a modern day Chris Mew for mine ) played a great as all the backline did.They were up against it all day.............Fisher at least got far more of the ball than usual is a plus for me.Gotta do that every week............Polson was at least lively and showed some dash.Far from the worst for mine.........Paddy Dow ? was quite deft in patches and showed class BUT not enough.Too much talent and ability to write off at this stage but he needs a circuit breaker to reignite him.I would get him to run with the opposition's best ball winner.Just shadow a natural ball winner and hopefully lead him to the ball.Anything,coz he's stagnating badly........................i agree the new kid Philp showed a bit and i would persist for sure...............

The lack of run and ball winning between the arcs was glaring and i am afraid if some of these young ones who should be emerging don't put there hands up its gonna be hard work.Fantastic time to be at Carlton if you are a young guy with get up and go.For faaark sake someone take the bull by the horns and put your hand.Perfect opportunity right now.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:39 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Adam Chatfield wrote:
Simmo was fine I thought.

Midfield was deplorably bad, though we were experimenting giving midfield time to younger guys generally.

What we found though is most those young players, are either not up to it yet or won’t be at all. Fisher at least gets involved but worries me with how high his ceiling actually is.

Dow doesn’t get it enough, hasn’t really bulked up, not sure he will ever be more than a fringe player.

Cuningham similar boat, doesn’t do enough. Needs a decent run at it with injury and string together at least 5-6 games in a row before making a final call, but maybe his body won’t allow that.

JSOS, Polson, Lang, and Kennedy hopefully don’t play much senior footy this year, if they are we are struggling.

Add McKay, McGovern, Eddie and a full game from Jack Martin to round 1 and things look a lot better up forward.

SPS, Kreuze, Murph and crippa will obviously help massively too.

I think a fair few guys got exposed today though and played themselves out of a chance for R1.

I thought Kreuzer played.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:39 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
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These matches produce that at times. The practice hitout against the Pies showed we weren't going too badly.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:41 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 8:24 pm
Posts: 829
keogh wrote:
Crippa wrote:
keogh wrote:
It’s early days but that was shit.
We have too many average players. How long have I been saying that. The results are testimony to my negativity
Poison dumb footballer
Cunningham great skills but goes missing lacks mongrel
Newnes Saints fans weren’t devastated when he left. That says it all
Setterfield and Kennedy were recruited as inside mids because of their size and their lack of pace
They simply don’t get enough of their own ball. Eventually the injury excuse will run dry
Dow is a dumb footballer
Silvangi always has a crack but isn’t quite good enough


There also seemed to be no game plan
Freo clearly had one

We will win a few games but from watching that crap we won’t improve much from last year
Interesting that Teague looks like he is already losing his hair
Welcome to 2020


Im not sure which dumb footballer you are referring to (we have several) but I think killing them is a tad harsh.


Polson obviously
He was handed a 2 year contract which ends this year on what basis
Some blokes at this club have been given plenty of chances but are simply not good enough for AFL
And yet other players seem to have to fight tooth and nail to get a practice game
Polson is Gartlett Mark 2. Let’s try him in defence and see if that works.
Yet someone like Cottrell who showed something last year in defence in the twos doesn’t get the opportunity to see how he would go in a trial game.
It’s hard to understand the coaching rationale.
Ditto Lang who should be playing suburban footy but plays as a permanent small forward.
Owies showed more in that position in the twos last year but was on the other side of the Nullarbor yesterday.


Yeah that was just my attempt at humour.

Agree 100% re Polson and Lang.

But like others have said above, retest those on the fringe against AFL opposition. Not many positives out of yesterday (Martin’s half was good) but enough of our front line was missing to not read too much into it.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:03 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
Blue4ever wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
keogh wrote:
The biggest concern for me is our midfield depth
We lose Cripps we are rooted


Once upon a time Cripps, Murphy, Curnow and Gibbs were our best 4 midfielders... five years later our best 4 mids are Cripps, Murphy, Curnow and Walsh, plus 3 youngsters with genuine potential as full time mids... that’s it!


Sad but true, very little quality to go through the midfield.


And some posters wonder why SOS was sacked!

The three youngsters I’m referring to are SPS, Fisher and Dow; and, many posters here have either already written them off or have massive concerns about them...


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:05 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
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Hibbo wrote:
Blue4ever wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
keogh wrote:
The biggest concern for me is our midfield depth
We lose Cripps we are rooted


Once upon a time Cripps, Murphy, Curnow and Gibbs were our best 4 midfielders... five years later our best 4 mids are Cripps, Murphy, Curnow and Walsh, plus 3 youngsters with genuine potential as full time mids... that’s it!


Sad but true, very little quality to go through the midfield.


Hence why we threw big $$$ at Coniglio.

And will do again on another this offseason. Brad Crouch & Jack Viney free agents, Wines linked, Whitfield sign yet?


We are at least five midfielders short on our list!!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:11 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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The other thing that really gets under my skin is the quality (on yesterday’s showing) of Freo’s 2-4 year players compared to ours.

Banfield, Shultz, Ryan, Cerra, Brayshaw and so it goes on.

On yesterday’s showing we are not in the same league with our development, Walsh aside. Even Fisher is less damaging than most of theirs

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:36 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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baz_baz wrote:
The other thing that really gets under my skin is the quality (on yesterday’s showing) of Freo’s 2-4 year players compared to ours.

Banfield, Shultz, Ryan, Cerra, Brayshaw and so it goes on.

On yesterday’s showing we are not in the same league with our development, Walsh aside. Even Fisher is less damaging than most of theirs


Which of their young mids were more damaging than Fisher?
And for the record, Banfield is 22, as is Schultz and Ryan is 24. Let's not get too despondent after 1 practice game full of kids.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:36 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Blue Vain wrote:
baz_baz wrote:
The other thing that really gets under my skin is the quality (on yesterday’s showing) of Freo’s 2-4 year players compared to ours.

Banfield, Shultz, Ryan, Cerra, Brayshaw and so it goes on.

On yesterday’s showing we are not in the same league with our development, Walsh aside. Even Fisher is less damaging than most of theirs


Which of their young mids were more damaging than Fisher?
And for the record, Banfield is 22, as is Schultz and Ryan is 24. Let's not get too despondent after 1 practice game full of kids.


Shultz 4
Banfield 2
Cerra 1
Sturt 1

Fisher 0

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:12 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Was Freo missing anyone?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:26 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Donstuie wrote:
Was Freo missing anyone?


Yep. The pundits say about the same quality

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