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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:06 am 
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ColourMan wrote:
GWS wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
No argument about the improvement, however that improvement is nowhere near where it should be... the great forest has far too many bare patches.


Which list manager/recruiters do you think have a better record over the last four years?


For starters, he’s been in charge for five years not four years... that’s five trade trade periods, five drafts... there won’t be too many clubs, if any, that had the selections that we had at the pointy end of the draft... and I doubt there’s any club that has done worse than us at the back end of the draft (including the rookie draft).

We’ve found a way to do less with more, while other clubs have done more with less...

When you look at what he’s done in detail (as well as what he hasn’t done), then it’s obvious why he’s being moved on... most here aren’t interested or care about the detail.


Do you prefer depth of list of 2014 or depth of list of 2020?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:12 am 
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Harry Vallence
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I'm in the camp that believes Silvagni has done an excellent job. Our list has been a mess for ages but now is in a very healthy state.

For starters, he structured an approach (similar to Pelchen) of preparing a list that covered all aspects. We are still short of small forwards and long term ruckman, but these are the easiest pieces to fill with trading and rookies. He worked on getting depth across all levels and has done this. The extra midfielders this year was necessary but all part of the plan.

Generally, I think SOS's early picks have been very good. I agree his latter picks and some trading have not but much of this has been in the speculative realm. No recruiter is 100% and I also agree on the Stephen Wells analysis. His overall performance is good (3 flags) but he has drafted some absolute stinkers in his time.

For me, SOS's biggest issue was having two sons on the list. There is possibly a third to come. The conflict is obvious. Coupled with the knowledge his rebuild work is essentially done and a (likely) desire to simply watch his sons develop, means it is probably the right time for him to go with our blessing. I think it unlikely SOS wanted the job for life.

Anyone doubting his influence didn't watch the draft last week. His work with only one decent pick was sensational. First and foremost, there was a clear plan and execution. CFC identified 3 players of interest and all were gone after the Swans changed tack on who they wanted. Rather than simply draft the next best or take who is on the shelf, SOS got creative. He made the other clubs draft their academy players (and screwed both for the remainder of the draft and Freo for next year). He positioned us to have two bites of the cherry. He took the guy (Philp) the Tigers wanted.

None of this happens by accident. His work at the drafts has been excellent.

I like what he brought to trade week as well. This year it didn't work but it should be noted we only missed on Papley. We offered pick 9 and who here would pay more than that? I wouldn't (don't think he is worth 9 either). We over-offered for Martin as well. When neither worked, SOS was smart enough to not offer the farm. You can over-pay but don't lose sight of the main game.

SOS will be missed but maybe it was time. His work will be judged better in hindsight, with our improvement (I hope). One thing is absolutely certain, he left this club in an INFINITELY better position than the mess he inherited. No one can dispute that.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:36 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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fmurphy30 wrote:
I'm in the camp that believes Silvagni has done an excellent job. Our list has been a mess for ages but now is in a very healthy state.

For starters, he structured an approach (similar to Pelchen) of preparing a list that covered all aspects. We are still short of small forwards and long term ruckman, but these are the easiest pieces to fill with trading and rookies. He worked on getting depth across all levels and has done this. The extra midfielders this year was necessary but all part of the plan.

Generally, I think SOS's early picks have been very good. I agree his latter picks and some trading have not but much of this has been in the speculative realm. No recruiter is 100% and I also agree on the Stephen Wells analysis. His overall performance is good (3 flags) but he has drafted some absolute stinkers in his time.

For me, SOS's biggest issue was having two sons on the list. There is possibly a third to come. The conflict is obvious. Coupled with the knowledge his rebuild work is essentially done and a (likely) desire to simply watch his sons develop, means it is probably the right time for him to go with our blessing. I think it unlikely SOS wanted the job for life.

Anyone doubting his influence didn't watch the draft last week. His work with only one decent pick was sensational. First and foremost, there was a clear plan and execution. CFC identified 3 players of interest and all were gone after the Swans changed tack on who they wanted. Rather than simply draft the next best or take who is on the shelf, SOS got creative. He made the other clubs draft their academy players (and screwed both for the remainder of the draft and Freo for next year). He positioned us to have two bites of the cherry. He took the guy (Philp) the Tigers wanted.

None of this happens by accident. His work at the drafts has been excellent.

I like what he brought to trade week as well. This year it didn't work but it should be noted we only missed on Papley. We offered pick 9 and who here would pay more than that? I wouldn't (don't think he is worth 9 either). We over-offered for Martin as well. When neither worked, SOS was smart enough to not offer the farm. You can over-pay but don't lose sight of the main game.

SOS will be missed but maybe it was time. His work will be judged better in hindsight, with our improvement (I hope). One thing is absolutely certain, he left this club in an INFINITELY better position than the mess he inherited. No one can dispute that.


:thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:10 am 
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Harry Vallence

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toddkurnski wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
GWS wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
No argument about the improvement, however that improvement is nowhere near where it should be... the great forest has far too many bare patches.


Which list manager/recruiters do you think have a better record over the last four years?


For starters, he’s been in charge for five years not four years... that’s five trade trade periods, five drafts... there won’t be too many clubs, if any, that had the selections that we had at the pointy end of the draft... and I doubt there’s any club that has done worse than us at the back end of the draft (including the rookie draft).

We’ve found a way to do less with more, while other clubs have done more with less...

When you look at what he’s done in detail (as well as what he hasn’t done), then it’s obvious why he’s being moved on... most here aren’t interested or care about the detail.


Absolute rubbish from any point of view. The only problem has been the rookie draft. No data to support this view yet at all.

If Gibbons comes good then that even takes care of the Rookies...

But keep spinning that tale.

Pinch of salt with all these posts. They’re not exactly a exactly full of reasoning or detail, just broad strokes of opinion masked as knowledge.

We had the worst list since Fitzroy... but we should have won a premiership already I guess.


This is a funny post... there’s been a stack of detail provided during this time, most people here haven’t been interested in the details... finally, people at the club are, it’s why he’s leaving...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:35 am 
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Craig Bradley

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toddkurnski wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
GWS wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
No argument about the improvement, however that improvement is nowhere near where it should be... the great forest has far too many bare patches.


Which list manager/recruiters do you think have a better record over the last four years?


For starters, he’s been in charge for five years not four years... that’s five trade trade periods, five drafts... there won’t be too many clubs, if any, that had the selections that we had at the pointy end of the draft... and I doubt there’s any club that has done worse than us at the back end of the draft (including the rookie draft).

We’ve found a way to do less with more, while other clubs have done more with less...

When you look at what he’s done in detail (as well as what he hasn’t done), then it’s obvious why he’s being moved on... most here aren’t interested or care about the detail.


Absolute rubbish from any point of view. The only problem has been the rookie draft. No data to support this view yet at all.

If Gibbons comes good then that even takes care of the Rookies...

But keep spinning that tale.

Pinch of salt with all these posts. They’re not exactly a exactly full of reasoning or detail, just broad strokes of opinion masked as knowledge.

We had the worst list since Fitzroy... but we should have won a premiership already I guess.

You’ve got to be joking? One rookie to redeem the 40 odd failures outside the top dozen?

His success is built upon the team’s continual failing - early picks. If he had ANY runs on the board outside that, I’d be able to tell you what flavour the Kool-Aid was that you’ve all been drinking.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:12 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
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Crusader wrote:
toddkurnski wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
GWS wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
No argument about the improvement, however that improvement is nowhere near where it should be... the great forest has far too many bare patches.


Which list manager/recruiters do you think have a better record over the last four years?


For starters, he’s been in charge for five years not four years... that’s five trade trade periods, five drafts... there won’t be too many clubs, if any, that had the selections that we had at the pointy end of the draft... and I doubt there’s any club that has done worse than us at the back end of the draft (including the rookie draft).

We’ve found a way to do less with more, while other clubs have done more with less...

When you look at what he’s done in detail (as well as what he hasn’t done), then it’s obvious why he’s being moved on... most here aren’t interested or care about the detail.


Absolute rubbish from any point of view. The only problem has been the rookie draft. No data to support this view yet at all.

If Gibbons comes good then that even takes care of the Rookies...

But keep spinning that tale.

Pinch of salt with all these posts. They’re not exactly a exactly full of reasoning or detail, just broad strokes of opinion masked as knowledge.

We had the worst list since Fitzroy... but we should have won a premiership already I guess.

You’ve got to be joking? One rookie to redeem the 40 odd failures outside the top dozen?

His success is built upon the team’s continual failing - early picks. If he had ANY runs on the board outside that, I’d be able to tell you what flavour the Kool-Aid was that you’ve all been drinking.


Continual failing is not why we have had 11 first round draft picks in 5 years.

Posters keep bagging that he has not been great at later picks (which is true) whilst ignoring that he has turned some of those picks into first round selections.

The only fair way to judge SOS is on the COMPLETE body of his work, I think that his record will stack up to against anyones.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:40 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/stephen- ... e-c-584993

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:55 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Not surprising unfortunately.

Overall he's done a terrific job of turning this list around, and remains my all-time favourite Carlton player/person for what he did on the field and what he has done for us off it.

But unfortunately, having 2 (soon to be 3) of his sons on the list will only make things more difficult as time goes by.

That said, disappointing that he turned down another role at the club that would've removed him from this situation at least.

Time for Agresta to step up?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:09 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Sad to see, SOS literally busted a nut for this club on-field and was pretty good off.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:13 pm 
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John Nicholls
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"Liddle was already under pressure after his key commercial appointment failed and lasted less than eight weeks in the job."

Any insight into what's gone on here?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:30 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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robertbb wrote:
"Liddle was already under pressure after his key commercial appointment failed and lasted less than eight weeks in the job."

Any insight into what's gone on here?
Agree? What's this refer to?... And the implication is that Prenda's role is to sort it out?

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:31 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Tom Browne wrote:
The Blues legend was in at the club on Monday and will oversee recruit star Jack Martin’s transition from the Gold Coast Suns.

But Silvagni won’t stay until Christmas, instead moving on over the next week or so.


Can just imagine his next week or so, sitting in his empty, cleaned out, office.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:55 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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robertbb wrote:
"Liddle was already under pressure after his key commercial appointment failed and lasted less than eight weeks in the job."

Any insight into what's gone on here?

But he pissed him off!! After 8 weeks, he is showing that he stuffed up and pissed him off!!
No problem with that!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:21 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Silvagni's parting swipe at Blues leadership

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sil ... 53g69.html

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:22 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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I think the most disappointing part of this is that the club had completely lost control of the narrative. By saying nothing they've allowed these @#$%&! media parasites come up with their own spin on it and whether there is complete truth to the story (though I doubt it) or they are filling the gaps with poetic licence, the club has remained completely passive with it all. Where the @#$%&! are the media managers? Why have we not been on the front foot with it? Can't even say they've been reactionary. They've done absolutely nothing. It damages the brand and we continue to look like rank amateurs

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Trigger wrote:
robertbb wrote:
"Liddle was already under pressure after his key commercial appointment failed and lasted less than eight weeks in the job."

Any insight into what's gone on here?

But he pissed him off!! After 8 weeks, he is showing that he stuffed up and pissed him off!!
No problem with that!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:39 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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chubbyruss wrote:
Silvagni's parting swipe at Blues leadership

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sil ... 53g69.html

Such a shame SOS is leaving on not the greatest of terms.
Interesting that the board sided with Liddle.
Unfortunately this is Carlton, we never seem to learn.
Thanks SOS, you have done an amazing job turning the list around.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:45 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Trigger wrote:
robertbb wrote:
"Liddle was already under pressure after his key commercial appointment failed and lasted less than eight weeks in the job."

Any insight into what's gone on here?

But he pissed him off!! After 8 weeks, he is showing that he stuffed up and pissed him off!!
No problem with that!

Executive appointments are a bit harder to fill than your average labourer.

Recruitment, salary, delays to projects & other hires... it’s a six-figure error of judgement, at least.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:46 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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kezza wrote:
chubbyruss wrote:
Silvagni's parting swipe at Blues leadership

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sil ... 53g69.html

Such a shame SOS is leaving on not the greatest of terms.
Interesting that the board sided with Liddle.
Unfortunately this is Carlton, we never seem to learn.
Thanks SOS, you have done an amazing job turning the list around.



actually, they've probably handled it completely different to the way 'old Carlton' might have

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:05 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Old Carlton won premierships......


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