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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:42 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
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I might've erred on the side of caution (albeit as a rookie option), but I can understand why all of Goddard, Silvagni, Macreadie & Moore were let go in one hit - they simply weren't up to the level required. Perhaps a touch unlucky for some, given the dramatic change to that level once Saad & Williams were added to the defensive unit, but that's big league footy. Mobile zone defences are the way forward.

I've said elsewhere that it's a good draft for KPD. Not only because of the talent, but because many lists will be in a state of flux right through the mid-season intakes.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:40 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Crusader wrote:
I might've erred on the side of caution (albeit as a rookie option), but I can understand why all of Goddard, Silvagni, Macreadie & Moore were let go in one hit - they simply weren't up to the level required. Perhaps a touch unlucky for some, given the dramatic change to that level once Saad & Williams were added to the defensive unit, but that's big league footy. Mobile zone defences are the way forward.

I've said elsewhere that it's a good draft for KPD. Not only because of the talent, but because many lists will be in a state of flux right through the mid-season intakes.


Are there at pick 38, 48 & 78?

Oscar McDonald in a PSD?
Macreadie as a rookie ... doubt it.

Curious what Austin comes up with.

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 Post subject: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:26 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Humpers wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
So NO KPD depth it is, then :?



Weitering - not depth
Jones- not depth / also 30 next year
Casboult - not a defender / also 31 next year
McGovern - not a defender

So if (God forbid) Weitering goes down and/or we see the inevitable retirements of Jones and Casboult, where does that leave us?

Could we develop Kemp as a KPP?
Maybe Marchbank will finally get his body right (unlikely I know).
McGovern can play in defence however probably isn't suited to play on the opposition gorillas.


Kemp, Marchbank and McGovern are all far too small to be effective key position defenders in the modern game. Every team has ruckman sized forwards these days, some even have two. Even Weitering is undersized against some of these guys. Jones is the ideal lockdown defender for the Gorillas. We need another defender in the Darcy Moore / Harris Andrews mould to take over from Jones in a couple of years


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:33 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 3581
After all the delistings, and given where our picks in the ND and RD are, we need to look at list balance. We are very thin in the Ruck, KPD and small forward.

Should be focusing on these, and given these positions have shown they can filled with later picks in both the ND and RD, hopefully our recruitment team have been watching these type of players closely in whatever capacity they could this year, and will be able deliver some diamonds in the rough.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:37 pm 
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Banned

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Hopefully we move up the draft ladder a little bit - small chance Nik Cox will slip through to mid 20s.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:48 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6314
Location: Bendigo
jake_h03 wrote:
Humpers wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
So NO KPD depth it is, then :?



Weitering - not depth
Jones- not depth / also 30 next year
Casboult - not a defender / also 31 next year
McGovern - not a defender

So if (God forbid) Weitering goes down and/or we see the inevitable retirements of Jones and Casboult, where does that leave us?

Could we develop Kemp as a KPP?
Maybe Marchbank will finally get his body right (unlikely I know).
McGovern can play in defence however probably isn't suited to play on the opposition gorillas.


Kemp, Marchbank and McGovern are all far too small to be effective key position defenders in the modern game. Every team has ruckman sized forwards these days, some even have two. Even Weitering is undersized against some of these guys. Jones is the ideal lockdown defender for the Gorillas. We need another defender in the Darcy Moore / Harris Andrews mould to take over from Jones in a couple of years


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Elite footy might be constantly evolving with moves and counter moves, but a ruckman that defends has lasted more than 100 years.

Nik Cox & Zac Reid might break the mould, but lumbering monster KPDs are, by and large, a liability.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:03 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Crusader wrote:

Nik Cox & Zac Reid might break the mould, but lumbering monster KPDs are, by and large, a liability.


The two All Australian KPDs this year are 202cm and 203cm

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:11 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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I think we should recruit Wylie Buzza ex Geelong and Port Adelaide forward ruckman. Would provide good back up in ruck and forward if Charlie is out long term.

My reasoning is strengthened by the fact that his dad was best man at my sons wedding and he named Wylie after his favourite Roadrunner cartoon character. I rest my case.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:33 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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jake_h03 wrote:
Crusader wrote:

Nik Cox & Zac Reid might break the mould, but lumbering monster KPDs are, by and large, a liability.


The two All Australian KPDs this year are 202cm and 203cm

Good luck to them. Any premierships?

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 Post subject: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:03 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Crusader wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Crusader wrote:

Nik Cox & Zac Reid might break the mould, but lumbering monster KPDs are, by and large, a liability.


The two All Australian KPDs this year are 202cm and 203cm

Good luck to them. Any premierships?


Yeah sound argument mate. Player x hasn’t won a premiership, therefore = liability.

Stick to trying to trade out our future star ruckman


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:07 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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jake_h03 wrote:
Crusader wrote:

Nik Cox & Zac Reid might break the mould, but lumbering monster KPDs are, by and large, a liability.


The two All Australian KPDs this year are 202cm and 203cm

Agreed, a lot of the forwards coming through now like McKay and the Kings are over 2m tall, stands to reason that you’ll need guys of equal height to counter them.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:55 am 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:34 am
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Location: Hoppers Crossing
Imagine in 2080 when our KPDs will be 2.90 tall to counter max king Jnr Jnr Jnr and three metre Peter.

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 Post subject: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:48 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Location: Melbourne
Sin City wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Crusader wrote:

Nik Cox & Zac Reid might break the mould, but lumbering monster KPDs are, by and large, a liability.


The two All Australian KPDs this year are 202cm and 203cm

Agreed, a lot of the forwards coming through now like McKay and the Kings are over 2m tall, stands to reason that you’ll need guys of equal height to counter them.


Exactly. Crusader needs to go and watch the St Kilda game again and see how Weitering struggled in numerous contests against a 19 year old Max King


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:26 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6314
Location: Bendigo
jake_h03 wrote:
Crusader wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Crusader wrote:

Nik Cox & Zac Reid might break the mould, but lumbering monster KPDs are, by and large, a liability.


The two All Australian KPDs this year are 202cm and 203cm

Good luck to them. Any premierships?


Yeah sound argument mate. Player x hasn’t won a premiership, therefore = liability.

Stick to trying to trade out our future star ruckman

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It's not an application for Mensa, just give me your best premiership defence that relied on an extra-tall defender.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:56 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6314
Location: Bendigo
jake_h03 wrote:
Sin City wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Crusader wrote:

Nik Cox & Zac Reid might break the mould, but lumbering monster KPDs are, by and large, a liability.


The two All Australian KPDs this year are 202cm and 203cm

Agreed, a lot of the forwards coming through now like McKay and the Kings are over 2m tall, stands to reason that you’ll need guys of equal height to counter them.


Exactly. Crusader needs to go and watch the St Kilda game again and see how Weitering struggled in numerous contests against a 19 year old Max King


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I'll do that. Bloke only took two marks for the game, so shouldn't be too much work.

Thanks for the hot tip.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:48 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
jake_h03 wrote:
Crusader wrote:

Nik Cox & Zac Reid might break the mould, but lumbering monster KPDs are, by and large, a liability.


The two All Australian KPDs this year are 202cm and 203cm



But the 196cm KPD was better than them both this year :sly:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:49 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Its not how big it is, but how you use it.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:52 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Location: Bendigo
Dale Morris, Premiership CHB.

I’m not going to mount some argument for diminishing returns above a given height. I’m just suggesting that intelligence (individually & within a structure), is a far more valuable commodity for a key defensive post.

They have to play a minimum 95% of the game and there is no room for replacements off the bench.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:39 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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:clap: :clap:
Crusader wrote:
Dale Morris, Premiership CHB.

I’m not going to mount some argument for diminishing returns above a given height. I’m just suggesting that intelligence (individually & within a structure), is a far more valuable commodity for a key defensive post.

They have to play a minimum 95% of the game and there is no room for replacements off the bench.

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 Post subject: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:09 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Right. The suggestion was that Kemp, Marchbank, or Gov could take over from Jones and pair with Weitering as our KPDs. If we go in with Weiters and any one of those three as ours KPDs we will get slaughtered.

Now that we’ve delisted BSOS and Macreadie, I really wish we had have drafted TDKs brother Sam. 202cm key defender who plays like a flanker and can go forward and into the ruck.

How do you like that one Crusader?


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