List Management 2020

SurreyBlue · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am **Posts:** 10073

carntheblues wrote:

Overall Camerons decision to go to Geelong has upped the ante in the trade period. It is going to be very interesting (even captivating) to see how it all plays out.

My bet - Geelong do this with there round 1 picks quickly and move on. They won't want to play games, as they have traded in more round 1 picks from last year for this very reason. They are bloody well run.

Blue4ever · **Posted:** Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:40 pm

deano35 wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

:lol:
How dare I float an idea of why pick 7 may be of interest. FWIW, you didn't say pick 7 wouldn't be appealing. You said it was "no chance" so be accurate.
It wasn't my intention to say you are foolhardy but to say disregarding the proposition of pick 7 still being an option is foolhardy.
I have no inside mail and I'm not saying they will want pick 7. I just said it may still be of interest. You're the one who fired back saying it was no chance. We're all just here offering opinions but for posters to come out and state what is "no chance" before negotiations begin is not practical IMHO.

I think you've mistaken MY OPINION as fact. FWIW I wrote why and also offered up that they have 3 first rd picks to counter why I think it won't be appealing to them
Again show me where I said that its fact that its no chance????
I clearly put its my opinion and even offered up a scenario to back MY OPINION.
I have NO inside knowledge either so am I not allowed to disagree with your opinion that it may interest them.
I think from now on I will have to clearly clarify if I do or don't have knowledge of what's happening.
I have NO INSIDE KNOWLEDGE THIS IS JUST MY OPINION and I disagree with your view that it may interest them :thanks:

Well said Deano and this is why I cant be bothered posting anymore.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:54 pm

deano35 wrote:

carntheblues wrote:

The assumption in all this is that Geelong or Brisbane will swap their 2 later first round picks to us for 7, which they may not be a given since they both have other player trades they are reportedly into.

Jeremy Cameron has just nominated Geelong so that makes it tough

What a mess this AFL Commission has created.
Talk about the antithesis of equalisation.

Not only did the AFL Commission take away the early picks from the bottom teams to give them to the 2 new teams GCS and GWS, they have created new rules which allows these players from the new clubs to easily leave these teams and get to the top teams.

Pathetic disruption to the game.

sticksaftersiren87 · **Joined:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:50 am **Posts:** 1152

yeh who cares about the rights of the players to work for whoever they want to. They shouldn't be like every other person in society.....

Steve_C7 · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm **Posts:** 1002

bondiblue wrote:

deano35 wrote:

carntheblues wrote:

The assumption in all this is that Geelong or Brisbane will swap their 2 later first round picks to us for 7, which they may not be a given since they both have other player trades they are reportedly into.

Jeremy Cameron has just nominated Geelong so that makes it tough

What a mess this AFL Commission has created.
Talk about the antithesis of equalisation.

Not only did the AFL Commission take away the early picks from the bottom teams to give them to the 2 new teams GCS and GWS, they have created new rules which allows these players from the new clubs to easily leave these teams and get to the top teams.

Pathetic disruption to the game.

I like free agency, Cameron has given 10 YEARS to a fledgling side and helped them get the GF.

Surely he has now the right to go to whoever he likes.

FWIW, free agency players have gone in every direction - Ablett to suns, Buddy to Swans along with Lynch to tigers and Cameron to Geelong

Well run clubs will alway attract FA as there is a TPP and you have to manage all your player contracts to have the capacity to trade in high quality players

camel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:03 pm

Two questions:
1. Wasn't the intention of free agency to allow the mid-tier players to move for better opportunity at getting games? (But the result has been more A-grade talent moving than expected.)
2. Re freedom of movement/choice of employer, that's a fair comment, so do we accept that free agency is a compromise to an already flawed system, or do we look to shelve the draft and current recruiting systems and build a new system from the ground up. And if so, what?

Walsh · **Joined:** Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm **Posts:** 2333

camel wrote:

Two questions:
1. Wasn't the intention of free agency to allow the mid-tier players to move for better opportunity at getting games? (But the result has been more A-grade talent moving than expected.)
2. Re freedom of movement/choice of employer, that's a fair comment, so do we accept that free agency is a compromise to an already flawed system, or do we look to shelve the draft and current recruiting systems and build a new system from the ground up. And if so, what?

Restriction of earnings is against the law so salary cap is problematic.

I also think clubs should have the own youth systems under 16s and develop their own players in house.

Maybe the salary cap could be structured like the A-league

i.e., salary cap 10m for example

2 x marquee players not counted in salary cap so top end players can earn more and move around less.

Its all about earnings - I think even 5 players considered marquee and off salary cap is viable tbh.

If that doesnt work premier league's transfer system seems to be working just fine. develop young talent sell them for a fee if required pay your best players... pretty straight forward.

Jez1966 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:42 pm **Posts:** 2801

bondiblue wrote:

deano35 wrote:

carntheblues wrote:

The assumption in all this is that Geelong or Brisbane will swap their 2 later first round picks to us for 7, which they may not be a given since they both have other player trades they are reportedly into.

Jeremy Cameron has just nominated Geelong so that makes it tough

What a mess this AFL Commission has created.
Talk about the antithesis of equalisation.

Not only did the AFL Commission take away the early picks from the bottom teams to give them to the 2 new teams GCS and GWS, they have created new rules which allows these players from the new clubs to easily leave these teams and get to the top teams.

Pathetic disruption to the game.

And bar any going to Carlton, no the AFL will do everything they can to prevent that from happening, like the Rabbit

Opine · **Joined:** Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:44 pm **Posts:** 16

bondiblue wrote:

deano35 wrote:

carntheblues wrote:

The assumption in all this is that Geelong or Brisbane will swap their 2 later first round picks to us for 7, which they may not be a given since they both have other player trades they are reportedly into.

Jeremy Cameron has just nominated Geelong so that makes it tough

What a mess this AFL Commission has created.
Talk about the antithesis of equalisation.

Not only did the AFL Commission take away the early picks from the bottom teams to give them to the 2 new teams GCS and GWS, they have created new rules which allows these players from the new clubs to easily leave these teams and get to the top teams.

Pathetic disruption to the game.

While not a fan of it, the AFL's strategy isn't flawed. Pursing equal playing field through unequal treatment is not of itself anthesis of equality; affording special treatment in short term to enable equal playing field in medium to long term is common means of achieving overall and sustained equality. What's frustrating is absence of clarity around scope and timing of special treatment. As a footy fan, I'm over the undefined and changing goalposts around support given to the plastic clubs.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:54 pm

I was thinking about the small forward position, Betts as insurane.

Fisher playing with Betts in 2020.
What about Samo playing as small forward?

Kicks left, right. Ditto with his hands.
He makes time stand still. Has a great foil.
Dead eye kick too.

I'd like to see that.

TheSwan · **Joined:** Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:37 pm **Posts:** 1932

bondiblue wrote:

I was thinking about the small forward position, Betts as insurane.

Fisher playing with Betts in 2020.
What about Samo playing as small forward?

Kicks left, right. Ditto with his hands.
He makes time stand still. Has a great foil.
Dead eye kick too.

I'd like to see that.

I agree. I would like to see him on the wing and then pushing forward.

I always liked the idea of Murphy playing as a deep forward as well but he can't turn on a dime like he used to and can hardly tackle.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:12 am

Mal Blight on SEN just said that young mids Prestia Swallow Caddy needed Ablett to lead them in the midfield.

That it's impossible for young bodies to go in a lone with undeveloped bodies for a midfield role.
They need leadership. Its an impossible task.

First player I thought of was Dow.

SurreyBlue · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am **Posts:** 10073

bondiblue wrote:

Mal Blight on SEN just said that young mids Prestia Swallow Caddy needed Ablett to lead them in the midfield.

That it's impossible for young bodies to go in a lone with undeveloped bodies for a midfield role.
They need leadership. Its an impossible task.

First player I thought of was Dow.

Now what would Blighty know...... :lol:

keogh · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am **Posts:** 5982

Betts is finished
Gives Owies a extended run of games next year
Only Carlton would give Betts a contract then another head

If SOS had stuck his empty head inside the gates of Sturt in 2018 we might have our small forward
No McGovern and two decent mids :wink:

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 17563

Betts struggled with the conditions. I thought he'd be fine with the slippery conditions resulting from the humidity but he was very poor. Struggled to handle the ball and slipped over constantly.
I'll wait to see him back in Melbourne conditions before writing him off but he is running out of time rapidly.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:40 pm

keogh wrote:

Betts is finished
Gives Owies a extended run of games next year
Only Carlton would give Betts a contract then another head

If SOS had stuck his empty head inside the gates of Sturt in 2018 we might have our small forward
No McGovern and two decent mids :wink:

No reason why Betts and Owies can't coexist.

Bettsy has plenty in the tank. He is the next level, and can come down a peg and still have some on them.
Something was amiss in 2020 for plenty.

I have faith in Fish forward, and would love to see SPS forward too.
There's plenty to play with on our list now.
Hey, the next Sturt player is this year.
Its possible if thats what they're looking for.

This was the year only WAFL and SAFL were played, so recruiters eyes were focussed there; no choice.
The list for 2021 isn't done yet.

TheSwan · **Joined:** Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:37 pm **Posts:** 1932

Personally, I don't see the appeal with Owies. What am I missing?

bondiblue · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:22 pm

TheSwan wrote:

Personally, I don't see the appeal with Owies. What am I missing?

I think the club have pigeon holed him as a small forward project.

He has kicked a few goals, but he is raw. Good size.

Its the frenzied pressure and tackling I want to see from a small forward.

I'm not sold on him, and I wouldn't get rid of Betts to give Owies games in the seniors. Too risky.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:24 pm

Opine wrote:

bondiblue wrote:

deano35 wrote:

carntheblues wrote:

The assumption in all this is that Geelong or Brisbane will swap their 2 later first round picks to us for 7, which they may not be a given since they both have other player trades they are reportedly into.

Jeremy Cameron has just nominated Geelong so that makes it tough

What a mess this AFL Commission has created.
Talk about the antithesis of equalisation.

Not only did the AFL Commission take away the early picks from the bottom teams to give them to the 2 new teams GCS and GWS, they have created new rules which allows these players from the new clubs to easily leave these teams and get to the top teams.

Pathetic disruption to the game.

While not a fan of it, the AFL's strategy isn't flawed. Pursing equal playing field through unequal treatment is not of itself anthesis of equality; affording special treatment in short term to enable equal playing field in medium to long term is common means of achieving overall and sustained equality. What's frustrating is absence of clarity around scope and timing of special treatment. As a footy fan, I'm over the undefined and changing goalposts around support given to the plastic clubs.

You've got me there.

I'm not sure what this means.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:32 pm

Steve_C7 wrote:

bondiblue wrote:

deano35 wrote:

carntheblues wrote:

The assumption in all this is that Geelong or Brisbane will swap their 2 later first round picks to us for 7, which they may not be a given since they both have other player trades they are reportedly into.

Jeremy Cameron has just nominated Geelong so that makes it tough

What a mess this AFL Commission has created.
Talk about the antithesis of equalisation.

Not only did the AFL Commission take away the early picks from the bottom teams to give them to the 2 new teams GCS and GWS, they have created new rules which allows these players from the new clubs to easily leave these teams and get to the top teams.

Pathetic disruption to the game.

I like free agency, Cameron has given 10 YEARS to a fledgling side and helped them get the GF.

Surely he has now the right to go to whoever he likes.

FWIW, free agency players have gone in every direction - Ablett to suns, Buddy to Swans along with Lynch to tigers and Cameron to Geelong

Well run clubs will alway attract FA as there is a TPP and you have to manage all your player contracts to have the capacity to trade in high quality players

GCS had a bigger salary cap and extended players list. They also had a marketing part of their cap. They offered Abllett $1.5M a season including the marketing component. No one else could match that. AND, that sort of offer is what it takes to attract a Marquee player to an umattractive team (albeit fledgling club, or bottom 6 team).

Swans had Cola and use that extra cap space to spend it on Buddy. They don't have that anymore.

Nothing equal about the above.

Lynch was offered less money. He wouldn't have gone to ninethmond a few years back. He has gone to Tigers for less money whilst they are the top of the tree.

Cameron hasn't gone to Cats for more money. He's gone there for a Flag, with the GWS not receiving market value for THEIR player.

There's obviously a need to define what equalisation means.

What I do know is that the FA hasn't had the results planned, which was for mid tier players to be enticed by money to lower clubs.

The short history of FA shows the clubs lose players and are not compensated at market value.

We will get use to it, but it has to be fairer than what it is now....please not like the FA in the USA.

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