Why would I believe a Crows Board Member who is responsible for the exodus, culture and demise of the team that played in the 2017 GF?
He's full of shit, and he's being exposed by everyone, and he's back tracking ever so fast since McLeod's comments.

Why would I believe a Crows Board Member who is responsible for the exodus, culture and demise of the team that played in the 2017 GF?
He's full of shit, and he's being exposed by everyone, and he's back tracking ever so fast since McLeod's comments.

Why would I believe a Crows Board Member who is responsible for the exodus, culture and demise of the team that played in the 2017 GF?
He's full of shit, and he's being exposed by everyone, and he's back tracking ever so fast since McLeod's comments.

It's obvious that you and I are on the same page, Bondi, seeing as a lot of the points you raised were similar to my earlier rant.
You are just more eloquent than I am and a glass half full type of person whereas I tend to be more pessimistic.
I hope you are right about the timeline and the mindset being fixable in the short term.

All I'm saying is they need to change their mindset and it is the responsibility of all the 25 off field stff who have direct contact with the players. Unsociable footy hasn't been part of the development under any coach since Pagan, and its a bout time they prepared the kids for battle: start with their minds.

Regarding this week and hard nuts on the list (or lack thereof) and lines in the sand raised by more than one poster on here, I think Kennedy would be more suited to that type of mentality than say, Fisher or Dow.

The 2 ins this week Williamson and Silvagni are hard at it footballers with bodies made for battle.

If you want hard and versatile, he can do it. He has been in and out but for mine would suit this week's requirements of serving up some hard stuff. I have higher hopes for him that you do.

Kennedy hasn't got a bad bone in his body. He isn't interested in being unsociable, and he doesn't use his body as a weapon. I hate to say this but its what my gut feel is ... he's a nice Catholic boy, who goes to church and has great off field values to fulfill his civic duties in his off field community, but doesn't leave them at the boundary line when he crosses it for battle. You can say, so is Gary Ablett, but Gary has superior talent to most players. He leaves the unsociable stuff to others and players an outside role he can execute better than others.


I hate to do this but I look back at the Hawthorn era over the last decade and players like Hodge and Lewis who were great footballers but weren't afraid to risk a week here and there when things needed to be done. They also bullied the umpires by letting them know they were great players and the umpires were just there to blow the whistle.

Exactly. Enforcers by mouth body and soul. Made for AFL finals footy.

Kennedy hasn't got the skillset of either of those players but he could certainly be an enforcer as well as picking up a few kicks and we know he is a goalkicker.

Have you ever seen anything Kennedy has done to give you the impression he's an enforcer other than his body size? He's a good nice kid with wonderful family values

I was pleasantly surprised with Pittonet last week. he rose to the occasion against Gawn. He is apparently not frightened of a bit of hard stuff. Perhaps this week is a good time for him to show us.

I expect us to lose against Geelong but I, like others hope this is a turning point in mindset.

I wasn't looking at Zac Jones last year but I do recall thinking Nathan was the one for pick #1 the year we got Murphy.

I'm shocked we didn't try to get him, knowing full well for years he was coming out of contract and is the right age profile and aggression we long for. He breaks lines too. Kicks goals too....even from HB. SOS was asleep at the wheel.

From Wikipedia

Coming out of contract at the end of the 2019 season, Jones requested a trade to St Kilda. Swans CEO Tom Harley said of Jones "everyone knows within footy circles he comes from a really strong and tight family and his desire to return to Victoria is to be closer to his family. St Kilda is the club that has expressed interest and Zak has let us know that, he has been really transparent about that...We actually had some challenges in re-signing him last time so this wasn’t totally unexpected."[4] At the conclusion of the 2019 AFL season, Jones and pick 56 was traded to St Kilda for pick 32, 76 and a 2020 3rd Round pick.[5]

The list does look good on paper. Let them transfer that to looking good on the field of battle.

When you'rebuilding from th ground up, which was his charter, you don't start with small forwards. You start with the big blokes, who take time. They're only just starting to hit their straps.
I don't recall too many here screaming out for small forwards on here over the last five years, it's been mids and KPP.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
When w got SOS in, who were our small forwards? Dis we still ave Yarran and Garlett?
I can't remember but I do get a bit tired of blaming it all on SOS. Let's not forget we are't a destination club. That plays a big part in losing Shiel, Mitchell etc etc.

It's not like sos didn't try.

In past 4 drafts, we have drafted

SPS
Fisher
Dow
Lob
Walsh
Stocker
Philp

7 top 20 Picks

For whatever reason none of them except Walsh played midfield in round 2

Saints Had Pick 6

GOT Picks 12 and 18 - GAVE AWAY Picks 6 and 69

GOT Paddy Ryder, Dougal Howard, Pick 10 and a future fourth-round pick - GAVE AWAY Picks 12, 18 and a future third-round pick

GOT Pick 58 - GAVE AWAY Jack Steven

GOT Brad Hill and a future third-round pick - GAVE AWAY Blake Acres, Picks 10 and 58, a future second-round pick and a future fourth-round pick

GOT Picks 32 and 51 - GAVE AWAY Josh Bruce

GOT Zak Jones, Pick 56 and a future fourth-round pick - GAVE AWAY Picks 32 and 76 and a future third-round pick

GOT Dan Butler - GAVE AWAY Pick 56

SOS had pick Pick 11 and got us

young players-

Kemp
Philp
Ramsay
Honey
Philips
Pittenet

experienced players-

Betts
Martin
Newnes

Turning pick 11 into Kemp Philp wasn't bad.

I think SOS haul was his best one, since the 2015 haul of Weiters McKay and Curnow (and Cuningham and JSOS).

Media says our list isn't good enough to challenge, let alone play finals. I have not heard one person defend or challenge that thought.
Every time I look at our kids, I see high growth and real potential. An under 25's team has me drooling at the thought of what could be.
Are we as supporters blind sided by our draft picks and maybe we are just expecting too much from a team not good enough?

Under25’s (close enough)

Docherty Macreade/Marchbank/Goddard Plowman
Setterfield Weitering Williamson
Dow Cripps O’Brien
Petrovski-Seton CCurnow Fisher
JSoS McKay Martin
DeKoning/Pittonet Stocker Walsh
Cuningham Gibbons Kerr Philip
McGovern Kennedy Polson Lang (I've moved some non fan favourites to emeg)

I for one have questioned the total ignoring of small forwards

A bit rough on Gov.

Doubt the following will make it: Macreadie, Goddard, Kerr, Polson, Kennedy, Lang

You've missed players who will probably feature for Carlton: B. Silvagni, Philp, Kemp, Honey, Ramsay

Maybe even those showing something: Cottrell, Philips, Owies and ODwyer showed something down back recently

Point is the pool of players U25 are greater than 22 and the word to describe the profile is "plethora".

Everyone agrees we wont challenge for finals, albeit a distant hope based on the Teague Train effect, but we were hoping for 8-10 wins in 22 rounds. Nothing new. But everyone agrees its a list full of youthful riches, and more to come in every year.

So what's the problem?

I just had lunch with a Sports Psych and I let it rip when he asked me what's up with carlton? They looked like they were going to win on Saturday.
Its all fixable, and maybe the coaches haven't acclimatised to the new game conditions as quickly as the others.

I pointed the finger at:

1. List Manager: Types of characters. Too much of the same nice kids breast fed in the TAC or GPS environment with no idea of the real demands of footy.
2. Sports psych: They obviously are not putting a fire in their belly, and the types we have drafted need sports psych to just front up.
3. Coach: His job to generate a killer emotion before they run out to win, not to have fun and play.
4. Development coaches: not teaching them to tackle and put their body in for their mates.
5.Physical Development: are the kids still skinny and gutless for that reason because they haven't done weights?
6. Performance Director: Maybe he has trained them to endure 30 minute quarters, not 16 minutes, and no weights to give them endurance.
7. Others: I'm sure other off field support can find shortfalls and reasons they contributed to a lack of **** whatever is missing.

Theses kids names were not pulled out of a hat. They deserved their selections. They were highly regarded by every recruiter from every club. It wasn't an accident. Sure there were some bolters as their were sliders. Point is they can all play footy at U18 level in the play ground.

Why are they a pack of intaverted, unmotivated, selfish players, who can't get themselves up for the first quarter? See list point 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or maybe they just are.

There has to be at least half of them who can be developed and motivated to be part of a successful Carlton team: that gives us 17 players who can. Bolt on the current seniors who can play the level, or the players we can bring in next year and the year after like Saints just did, and you know what can happen if......

we get in players who have the killer instinct
stop carrying players who are not physically or mentally up to playing finals footy let alone winning first quarters
change the off field influencers (1-7) modus operandi, and get real Aussie rules is not High school footy, TAC or for the faint hearted.

I still think we will work out what is needed, possibly doing a good job of it this week, and we should surprise all the knockers.
We have to come out the blocks prepared to win at all costs, like the other teams did against us in the last 13 matches, let alone last 2.

We might surprise a few, and I am in no doubt, anything can happen and change after 3-4 rounds of footy. History tells us its possible.

I'm not saying they will change. I'm saying we can.

Before you can add icing, you need to have a cake, grasshopper.

After a big night of fun in bed I was thinking I must sound condescending when describing some of the draftees as lets say, 'choir boys' and too nice a character to play footy.

What I'm alluding to is the Nature vs Nurture debate.

All the first rounders and many of the 2nd and 3rd rounders...as is Willo as a 4th, are all incredibly gifted physical specimens hence their selection. They have god given tools to play the game: run, mark, jump, catch, baulk.....better than most of the population. Its what you do with what Nature has endowed them with that counts when hey cross the line playing senior footy or AFL (the corrupted version of Aussie Rules).

I put it back to the Coaches, Physios, Psychs to condition (Nurture) these gifted players to play hard tough footy that brings success. That's a skill and a mental massage. That's all the players want from them: show them and condition them to be successful. Like the old saying goes, Teach them to Fish and they will eat for a lifetime.

I don't think we've done that as a club for decades, and its about time we put the spot light on those who condition our players and their shortfalls NOW, as we did with the recruiters we had (their names make me sick) for a decade with list of failed selections and the lack of development we provided.

Then whilst the spotlight is on these coaches(all of them), psychs performance managers, physios, weights trainers....we should ask if they are the right people to manage this highly regarded list and turn themfrom 'choir boys' to mean, single minded footy machines who will use their god given tools to win.

EFA

Ricciutto reminds me of Sticks.

Great onfield leader - not suited to the boardroom.

So when our 5 oldest guys hang up the boots I think we've got the talent to step up.

Simpson -> LOB

Betts -> Owies

Murphy -> Fish / Dow / Philp

Kreuzer -> TDK

Ed -> Stocker / Kemp

From what I've read it sounds like Honey has shown plenty of promise as well.

So when our 5 oldest guys hang up the boots I think we've got the talent to step up.

Simpson -> LOB

Betts -> Owies

Murphy -> Fish / Dow / Philp

Kreuzer -> TDK

Ed -> Stocker / Kemp