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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:36 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5510
CarltonClem wrote:
carntheblues wrote:

I do not think this will happen. I expect pick 7 to be on the table early to get the trade moving. No doubt Dodo will want a player as well and that is where we stick to our guns.


I’m sorry but the time to stick to your guns is when pick 7 is asked for.

I do not understand your continual desire to trade 7 when that is NOT in the best interests of the Carlton Football Club.

Your only rationale appears to be that it will easily get the deal done.

That’s exactly what Dodoro wants, not what we want.

I wish some of you would want to buy my house when I sell it, I’d make a massive profit.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:10 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17567
Who here knows better than the club what is in their best interests with Pick 7?
Surely the recruiting staff know what sort of quality we can expect with the available picks and how the lack of football this year has impacted their development.
Usually these selections are not based on individual selections but an overall strategy. Last year a number of people would have been happy to take Kemp with our first pick but the strategy was to split the pick because they safely assumed they could still take Kemp while acquiring another selection. Who knows what machinations are occurring to complete our overall strategy, not just the Saad acquisition.
The strategy should be to supplement the list with as much quality as possible with the available picks. If that means we let 7 go and get back Daniher compensation (for example) and Saad, I'm OK with it if the move is a part of a pre-determined overall strategy to get more quality in.
Saad is a very good player and his skillset will improve us significantly. We currently play too slowly out of defence because we don't have a line breaker with the skillset to give us another gear. Saad can be that player. His game offers us significant flexibility which we've been sadly lacking. Clubs confidently can press right up on us when they get the ball forward knowing we'll try to bring it out by kick and mark footy. Next year brings us another strategy and gives the opposition less surety of how to defend us.

If for example we got back an end of first round pick and could use that will next years first to get a gun mid, go for it I say. Is that the strategy?
Who knows? Only those in the inner sanctum. Back them in to do their job.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:51 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 1002
I know that we need to stock the midfield with more quality, however the Saad deal will provide a line breaker with great disposal in our HB that will allow SPS to play inside mid where he should be playing.

I believe that Zak Williams is looking for midfield time and will play there, that gives us 2 mature mids with a bit of grunt and if rumours of DeGoey are true that we are chasing him, then we have another X factor forward with mid rotation.

If this all comes to fruition, then the list rebuild is pretty complete.

Only real gap will be a genuine small forward, but I assume that fisher is being groomed for that position


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:24 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Posts: 15848
So according to Buckenara, Harry McKay is an '18-30 ranked player on any list' :donk:

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 4eee44ca69

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 Post subject: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:48 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: 父 父 父 父 父 父
Re Parker, I feel like his impact slid this year. I know statistically he is about on par with previous year, the games I've watched he just hasn't had the impact to my eyes that he has had in the past.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:57 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:45 pm
Posts: 1712
I like Bucky but at least be realistic when putting in trade targets.
Clayton Oliver or Josh Dunkley are more of a chance than Parker.
And to put McKay as a C grade player is ridiculous


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:43 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 546
p7 for saad if we are a top 4 side but we are lucky to make the 8 ,split picks with cats give 1 pick for saad and the other we go to draft ,best of both worlds i hope


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:34 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
So according to Buckenara, Harry McKay is an '18-30 ranked player on any list' :donk:

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 4eee44ca69

That is crazy.

He also has a list of the untouchables:

Quote:
Cripps, Dow, Walsh, McKay, Weitering, De Koning, C. Curnow, Fisher, Stocker, O’Brien, Marchbank, Setterfield, Petrevski-Seton, Lachie Plowman, Sam Philp, Jack Martin, Liam Jones, Ed Curnow, Sam Docherty and Brodie Kemp.


No Charlie (he explains his C rating on this year's performance, or lack of), no Harry
Quote:
Paddy Dow’s name has been thrown up as a player who could be used as trade bait but I still believe he’s going to be a good player. While he’s struggling to get a game and there are question marks on his disposal, it would be smart to keep investing in him. He’s a former No.3 pick and talent doesn’t evaporate overnight.


Interesting to see his A and B Graders:

Quote:
A-grade: Cripps

B: E. Curnow, Docherty, Fisher, Jones, Marchbank, Martin, Murphy, Newnes, Petrevski-Seton, Plowman, Weitering


For those who doubt or forgotten Marchbank's quality. Walsh is a B Grader given he's won every award possible for his age, plus his last 6 rounds were phenomenal.

I consider Weitering and Docherty as "A Graders" given the definition is "Elite Player on any AFL list"

Quote:
Developing (with A or B-grade potential): De Koning, Dow, Kemp, O’Brien, Philp, Stocker, Walsh


That's a lot of A and B Graders with Charlie and Harry to feature as such too...and McGovern paid like an A-B grader :wink:

...and finally where our list is at...

Quote:
CRYSTAL BALL
Carlton’s list is talented enough to play finals in 2021 and by adding Williams and Saad it gives them a lot to be excited about. I don’t think the Blues are ready to challenge for the premiership next year but they could be a serious contender for the flag in 2022. Carlton fans should get excited as this group matures and grows, but they will need to recruit at least one or two big-bodied midfielders to help Cripps to be a top team.


So, one or two more big bodied mids to bring in this year or 2021 Trade/ FA period. Can we do that? #IBELIEVE

We are a Destination Club NOW and the next few years.

We have 2020 & 2021 First round Picks and a player or two to offer this year to find one (Wines)

We will have 2021 & 2022 First round picks and players to offer next year (Merrett)

We have Dow, possibly Stocker to make their mark in the middle next year...Kemp could show his value as a big bodied mid next year too, such are the raps at the club.

We are close.

Great to see Carlton featured in this light regardless of Bucky's ratings. He's close to the mark.

Happy days Bluebaggers. Get ready to rise and let the footy world know, we are back, louder and more arrogant than ever. I've been banking my TCS (Total Carlton Spend) for a 2021 assault on the league, whether Gil and his corrupt mates in the Commission like it or not.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:50 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
Walsh and Weiters are A graders every day of the week.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:40 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Blue Vain wrote:
Who here knows better than the club what is in their best interests with Pick 7?
Surely the recruiting staff know what sort of quality we can expect with the available picks and how the lack of football this year has impacted their development.
Usually these selections are not based on individual selections but an overall strategy. Last year a number of people would have been happy to take Kemp with our first pick but the strategy was to split the pick because they safely assumed they could still take Kemp while acquiring another selection. Who knows what machinations are occurring to complete our overall strategy, not just the Saad acquisition.
The strategy should be to supplement the list with as much quality as possible with the available picks. If that means we let 7 go and get back Daniher compensation (for example) and Saad, I'm OK with it if the move is a part of a pre-determined overall strategy to get more quality in.
Saad is a very good player and his skillset will improve us significantly. We currently play too slowly out of defence because we don't have a line breaker with the skillset to give us another gear. Saad can be that player. His game offers us significant flexibility which we've been sadly lacking. Clubs confidently can press right up on us when they get the ball forward knowing we'll try to bring it out by kick and mark footy. Next year brings us another strategy and gives the opposition less surety of how to defend us.

If for example we got back an end of first round pick and could use that will next years first to get a gun mid, go for it I say. Is that the strategy?
Who knows? Only those in the inner sanctum. Back them in to do their job.


I think what you are trying to say is, anything could happen


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:42 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
So according to Buckenara, Harry McKay is an '18-30 ranked player on any list' :donk:

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 4eee44ca69


He was our most dangerous looking player in the last few games.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:45 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17567
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Who here knows better than the club what is in their best interests with Pick 7?
Surely the recruiting staff know what sort of quality we can expect with the available picks and how the lack of football this year has impacted their development.
Usually these selections are not based on individual selections but an overall strategy. Last year a number of people would have been happy to take Kemp with our first pick but the strategy was to split the pick because they safely assumed they could still take Kemp while acquiring another selection. Who knows what machinations are occurring to complete our overall strategy, not just the Saad acquisition.
The strategy should be to supplement the list with as much quality as possible with the available picks. If that means we let 7 go and get back Daniher compensation (for example) and Saad, I'm OK with it if the move is a part of a pre-determined overall strategy to get more quality in.
Saad is a very good player and his skillset will improve us significantly. We currently play too slowly out of defence because we don't have a line breaker with the skillset to give us another gear. Saad can be that player. His game offers us significant flexibility which we've been sadly lacking. Clubs confidently can press right up on us when they get the ball forward knowing we'll try to bring it out by kick and mark footy. Next year brings us another strategy and gives the opposition less surety of how to defend us.

If for example we got back an end of first round pick and could use that will next years first to get a gun mid, go for it I say. Is that the strategy?
Who knows? Only those in the inner sanctum. Back them in to do their job.


I think what you are trying to say is, anything could happen


What I'm saying is don't blindly block off the thought of pick 7 being involved for Saad. If it's a small part of an overall strategy and the nett value in the end is the best possible players for the picks utilised, that's the ideal outcome. You shouldn't limit your options.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:47 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
Posts: 4716
Location: Parliament House, Canberra
For the avoidance of doubt, my comments are aimed at those who want to straight swap 7 for Saad.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:31 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17567
:thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:59 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Blue Vain wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Who here knows better than the club what is in their best interests with Pick 7?
Surely the recruiting staff know what sort of quality we can expect with the available picks and how the lack of football this year has impacted their development.
Usually these selections are not based on individual selections but an overall strategy. Last year a number of people would have been happy to take Kemp with our first pick but the strategy was to split the pick because they safely assumed they could still take Kemp while acquiring another selection. Who knows what machinations are occurring to complete our overall strategy, not just the Saad acquisition.
The strategy should be to supplement the list with as much quality as possible with the available picks. If that means we let 7 go and get back Daniher compensation (for example) and Saad, I'm OK with it if the move is a part of a pre-determined overall strategy to get more quality in.
Saad is a very good player and his skillset will improve us significantly. We currently play too slowly out of defence because we don't have a line breaker with the skillset to give us another gear. Saad can be that player. His game offers us significant flexibility which we've been sadly lacking. Clubs confidently can press right up on us when they get the ball forward knowing we'll try to bring it out by kick and mark footy. Next year brings us another strategy and gives the opposition less surety of how to defend us.

If for example we got back an end of first round pick and could use that will next years first to get a gun mid, go for it I say. Is that the strategy?
Who knows? Only those in the inner sanctum. Back them in to do their job.


I think what you are trying to say is, anything could happen


What I'm saying is don't blindly block off the thought of pick 7 being involved for Saad. If it's a small part of an overall strategy and the nett value in the end is the best possible players for the picks utilised, that's the ideal outcome. You shouldn't limit your options.


Absolutely, totally agree.
If there is one thing SOS taught us, and the club, as a recruitment manager, it is that there is more than one way to skin a cat.
And to be honest failing getting a pick in the low teens we might not have much choice than to use 7 in some way.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:24 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 546
dwayne Russell along with X list manager Rendall said the u18 draft is very good this year and that ess should use the draft like port did .So we keep 7 and we select next gun not ess.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:33 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
jamespul65 wrote:
dwayne Russell along with X list manager Rendall said the u18 draft is very good this year and that ess should use the draft like port did .So we keep 7 and we select next gun not ess.


My take is, one should not mention the PSD unless you think it is a realistic option. As I can see, Saad Inc have mentioned PSD, but have Carlton? Saad Inc probably would not have mentioned PSD unless they'd have talked to CFC about it.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:26 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
jamespul65 wrote:
dwayne Russell along with X list manager Rendall said the u18 draft is very good this year and that ess should use the draft like port did .So we keep 7 and we select next gun not ess.


If we don't use pick 7 as part of an offer to a Big bodied A grader midfielder, whether its split or not, then the best kid at that pick on a Top 10 kid is fine to add to our stable of Round 1 picks in development or on the fringe:

Dow
OBrien
Kemp
Philp
Cuningham
Kennedy
Stocker
McGovern

Pick 7

Given the plethora of under 25's in our first 22, surely some of the above will be used in Trades in the future, maybe this year. When we become a Top 4 team, their value will rise, and they will become restless for more opportunity. We have become like the GWS.

Whilst I prefer ready made A & B Graders traded into the club, these first round picks re like money in the bank for future trades.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:27 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10077
bondiblue wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
dwayne Russell along with X list manager Rendall said the u18 draft is very good this year and that ess should use the draft like port did .So we keep 7 and we select next gun not ess.


If we don't use pick 7 as part of an offer to a Big bodied A grader midfielder, whether its split or not, then the best kid at that pick on a Top 10 kid is fine to add to our stable of Round 1 picks in development or on the fringe:

Dow
OBrien
Kemp
Philp
Cuningham
Kennedy
Stocker
McGovern

Pick 7

Given the plethora of under 25's in our first 22, surely some of the above will be used in Trades in the future, maybe this year. When we become a Top 4 team, their value will rise, and they will become restless for more opportunity. We have become like the GWS.

Whilst I prefer ready made A & B Graders traded into the club, these first round picks re like money in the bank for future trades.


:clap:

1. Build the list & depth - including covering injuries
2. Develop and complete team with competition for spots
3. Get short term success with an eye to long term
4. Start refreshing / rebuilding list with current depth while being successful.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:54 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
SurreyBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
dwayne Russell along with X list manager Rendall said the u18 draft is very good this year and that ess should use the draft like port did .So we keep 7 and we select next gun not ess.


If we don't use pick 7 as part of an offer to a Big bodied A grader midfielder, whether its split or not, then the best kid at that pick on a Top 10 kid is fine to add to our stable of Round 1 picks in development or on the fringe:

Dow
OBrien
Kemp
Philp
Cuningham
Kennedy
Stocker
McGovern

Pick 7

Given the plethora of under 25's in our first 22, surely some of the above will be used in Trades in the future, maybe this year. When we become a Top 4 team, their value will rise, and they will become restless for more opportunity. We have become like the GWS.

Whilst I prefer ready made A & B Graders traded into the club, these first round picks re like money in the bank for future trades.


:clap:

1. Build the list & depth - including covering injuries
2. Develop and complete team with competition for spots
3. Get short term success with an eye to long term
4. Start refreshing / rebuilding list with current depth while being successful.


Who told you that? Sounds like a plan.

Sounds like the 5 year plan the club launched back end of 2015 and is not only sticking to the plan, but may in fact deliver on time.

Restlessness from fans hankering for success is part of the pain to sustained success.

Its a good list. The Trade Draft period hasn't started and we have Williams and saad nominate us.

WE want big bodied A Grade mids or B+. We also know Bettsy is in his last year.

The way Eddie was speaking on 360 (my son showed me. Ive taken a break from the Cats Bombers show).
I concluded he may be pushed out as a rookie, to make way for I assume, Higgins or the like.

I'm sure Small forward will be fixed this draft: Higgins, Lonie, Narkle....even Papley.....could all be on the radar.

We have to spend the 95%-105% excess, plys the gaps from front loading.
We can continue front loading, no problem, but I think the club can really afford another gun this year and another next year when Murphy and Levi retire.

Last seasons we were covered for talls, and developing mids. Goddard got games with us.
Now there's only Macreadie and McGovern, and to a degree, Levi as our back up talls. Haven't seen Macreadie play forward. That's it.
Next 2 drafts we need to add to talls too, or rookie Ben Silvagni, or one of keogh's sure bets, and a ruckman/forward to replace Levi...just a better kick.

Its a good list right this minute with the addition of Williams and Saad.

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