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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:19 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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The key point Keogh makes is that we had morons running the club.


Not saying we’re perfect now, but there are better people in place now, and soon better ones on the way.

Improvement is a continual process which we need adhere too.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:38 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
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bondiblue wrote:
Its easy to select a team who just got in the grand final and say there's the blueprint, there's the profile of a winning team, and that's what we shouldve done...and look at where they were drafted.

Of those 7 rookies keogh mentions only Lambert would get a look in in most teams imo.
They play to a system devised by Hardwick, and it has evolved from having one KPF.
Don't underestimate the coach and the game plan which has taken 7 years to evolve. You forget that.

Its not the Blueprint.

The Tigers are 5 years ahead of Carlton in their rebuild, and that's after a disastrous Hughes - Rogers led recruitment.

Last night...Million dollar man, Lynch (GCS) , got them over the line.

Their top 6 did a fair bit to get them over the line too: Houli (Bombers), Prestia (GCS) Martin, Cotchin,Edwards, Ellis, Lambert. Not the bottom 7 you mentioned. Wrong again.

Soldo 10 disposals
Catagna 12 disposals
Short 13 disposals
Astbury 13 disposals
Graham 7 dispsals
Broad 3 disposals

Yeah right..the bottom 6 won it for them. :lol:

Houli defected from Bombers after issues close to he heart...

A nauseum ... Its all Setterfield's and Stocker's fault. So childish, so inappropriate, so degrading of a 19 and 20yo high pick draftee.

...and the Trade period hasn't started this year. Cogs doesn't need the money like other players...he stayed at GWS because of Loyalty and seemingly swayed by the Gil impact.

Nothing Carlton or SOS does will get your approval keogh, but I expect you to join the bandwagon when you hear the sound toot toot, saying you were glad you were wrong.
Got me thinking. Not sure if I like those type kinds of supporters TBH.



Your wrong on most points
Point is those bottom 6 did their job
Stats don’t tell the full story
Broad saved some goals last night that don’t get mentioned in the disposal stats

Look at every premiership team and where they came from
Most arnt top 10 picks
Look at all the spuds SOS has recruited from other AFL clubs particularly GWS who have been delisted
Why would you pick Fasolo
It seems to me that there hasn’t been enough emphasis on recruiting late developers from the WAFL SANFL and VFL
Every trade and pick is crucial
You are deluded
So you reckon I believe SOS and Brodie and Agresta can’t do anything right
Maybe your blinded by the SOS meister being a legend
Our list lacks depth
SOS hasn’t fixed that problem despite entering his 5 th draft
Our reserves have been pathetic for a long time too
Pull your head out of your arse and look at how the top teams do it
The light bulb in your brain my activate


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:49 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Can we please get this thread back onto Jack Martin....... If you want to keep crapping on about the same old s#!t start a seperate thread.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:51 am 
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Bruce Doull
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:07 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
keogh wrote:
Here is a snap shot from last nights game in regards to Richmond’s lesser lights
They all played their role effectively
Castagna 2017 rookie elevation
Short 2016 rookie elevation
Soldo 2017 rookie elevation
Lambert 2015 rookie elevation
Astbury pick 35 2009 draft
Graham pick 53 2016 draft
Broad pick 67 2015 draft

On top of this Grimes and Houli were both pre season picks

It’s this sort of recruiting that makes you a top team
In his time so far has SOS jagged any gems from nothing
Gibbons yes but can’t think of many others
Sure they gave up a lot to get Presty and Lynch was a gift called free agency

But every year the top teams are littered with guys who have been drafted from obscurity

Do the research
Richmond won last night without their best defender Riewoldt had a shocker as did Cotchin

West Coast won it without 3 top ten picks last year in Nick Nat Shepherd and Gaff

Our recruiting under SOS and Brodie is not good enough compared to other teams
like Richmond and Clarke
In order to get Martin we will probably have to part with 2 picks and because of what our recruiting team did last year that means a future pick
All for another bloke who is talented with big wraps but up to this point hasn’t done a lot to back it up
Like McGovern




As I have said before the most important person at a footy club is your head of recruiting


You left out Liam Baker who we chased this year...

And Jack Ross and Sydney Stack who are both better than Baker

And as for Jack Graham, BB wanted him a few picks before the tigers took him, SOS won the argument and took Macreadie

Then again, BB seriously wanted Josh Dunkley, he lost that argument too, and Ed Richards, well you know how that went... our midfield depth wouldn’t be as shallow as it is

From last night’s game, the Cats turned Darcy Lang into Gryan Miers


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:40 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Posts: 5508
ColourMan wrote:
keogh wrote:
Here is a snap shot from last nights game in regards to Richmond’s lesser lights
They all played their role effectively
Castagna 2017 rookie elevation
Short 2016 rookie elevation
Soldo 2017 rookie elevation
Lambert 2015 rookie elevation
Astbury pick 35 2009 draft
Graham pick 53 2016 draft
Broad pick 67 2015 draft

On top of this Grimes and Houli were both pre season picks

It’s this sort of recruiting that makes you a top team
In his time so far has SOS jagged any gems from nothing
Gibbons yes but can’t think of many others
Sure they gave up a lot to get Presty and Lynch was a gift called free agency

But every year the top teams are littered with guys who have been drafted from obscurity

Do the research
Richmond won last night without their best defender Riewoldt had a shocker as did Cotchin

West Coast won it without 3 top ten picks last year in Nick Nat Shepherd and Gaff

Our recruiting under SOS and Brodie is not good enough compared to other teams
like Richmond and Clarke
In order to get Martin we will probably have to part with 2 picks and because of what our recruiting team did last year that means a future pick
All for another bloke who is talented with big wraps but up to this point hasn’t done a lot to back it up
Like McGovern




As I have said before the most important person at a footy club is your head of recruiting


You left out Liam Baker who we chased this year...

And Jack Ross and Sydney Stack who are both better than Baker

And as for Jack Graham, BB wanted him a few picks before the tigers took him, SOS won the argument and took Macreadie

Then again, BB seriously wanted Josh Dunkley, he lost that argument too, and Ed Richards, well you know how that went... our midfield depth wouldn’t be as shallow as it is

From last night’s game, the Cats turned Darcy Lang into Gryan Miers


Going by these last two posts, you could assume, either SOS doesn't rate the role of the midfielder or he thinks we are pretty much solid in that area, bar one player. You'd kill for some of those names in our team.

If the above is true, I thought the coach tells the recruiting manager the players he wants and it's his job to go and get them. Not the tail wagging the dog.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:45 am 
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Geoff Southby
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AGRO wrote:
The key point Keogh makes is that we had morons running the club.


Not saying we’re perfect now, but there are better people in place now, and soon better ones on the way.

Improvement is a continual process which we need adhere too.

:thumbsup:


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 Post subject: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:48 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 3581
ColourMan wrote:
keogh wrote:
Here is a snap shot from last nights game in regards to Richmond’s lesser lights
They all played their role effectively
Castagna 2017 rookie elevation
Short 2016 rookie elevation
Soldo 2017 rookie elevation
Lambert 2015 rookie elevation
Astbury pick 35 2009 draft
Graham pick 53 2016 draft
Broad pick 67 2015 draft

On top of this Grimes and Houli were both pre season picks

It’s this sort of recruiting that makes you a top team
In his time so far has SOS jagged any gems from nothing
Gibbons yes but can’t think of many others
Sure they gave up a lot to get Presty and Lynch was a gift called free agency

But every year the top teams are littered with guys who have been drafted from obscurity

Do the research
Richmond won last night without their best defender Riewoldt had a shocker as did Cotchin

West Coast won it without 3 top ten picks last year in Nick Nat Shepherd and Gaff

Our recruiting under SOS and Brodie is not good enough compared to other teams
like Richmond and Clarke
In order to get Martin we will probably have to part with 2 picks and because of what our recruiting team did last year that means a future pick
All for another bloke who is talented with big wraps but up to this point hasn’t done a lot to back it up
Like McGovern




As I have said before the most important person at a footy club is your head of recruiting


You left out Liam Baker who we chased this year...

And Jack Ross and Sydney Stack who are both better than Baker

And as for Jack Graham, BB wanted him a few picks before the tigers took him, SOS won the argument and took Macreadie

Then again, BB seriously wanted Josh Dunkley, he lost that argument too, and Ed Richards, well you know how that went... our midfield depth wouldn’t be as shallow as it is

From last night’s game, the Cats turned Darcy Lang into Gryan Miers


Hahaha. Clearly we employed Bolton for the wrong role. He is the best talent scout and recruiter of all time if all that’s true, but I got a big bag of salt here and I’ll keep pinching from it.


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 Post subject: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:53 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 3581
AGRO wrote:
The key point Keogh makes is that we had morons running the club.


Not saying we’re perfect now, but there are better people in place now, and soon better ones on the way.

Improvement is a continual process which we need adhere too.


Good summary and it’s true.

But I got a feeling the horse will continue to cop a belting. Nothing a thumb flick can’t handle though.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:05 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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I do have to agree with Keogh on one thing though, that we still lack a lot of depth and especially in the middle and you can only look to the head coach (who is gone) and the recruiting manager to blame. I'm not on the bashing SOS bandwagon, but at some point the blame will eventually have to fall somewhere unless we improve on our midfield depth.

As I have said before, this trade period we should be looking for multiple fringe players with potential, like Martin. To maximise our trades and remain in the early part of the drafts. And as Keogh has pointed out, we don't need to go all Geelong and get big names, selling the farm or future 1st rounders to rise back up the ladder. Richmond's fringe players and rookie elevations have proven that it's not needed. We have a good talented core already, we just need help around the edges like Richmond has done and players in the right age bracket.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:49 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
Sidefx wrote:
I do have to agree with Keogh on one thing though, that we still lack a lot of depth and especially in the middle and you can only look to the head coach (who is gone) and the recruiting manager to blame. I'm not on the bashing SOS bandwagon, but at some point the blame will eventually have to fall somewhere unless we improve on our midfield depth.

As I have said before, this trade period we should be looking for multiple fringe players with potential, like Martin. To maximise our trades and remain in the early part of the drafts. And as Keogh has pointed out, we don't need to go all Geelong and get big names, selling the farm or future 1st rounders to rise back up the ladder. Richmond's fringe players and rookie elevations have proven that it's not needed. We have a good talented core already, we just need help around the edges like Richmond has done and players in the right age bracket.


Spent two hours at Ikon Park with a member of the Executive Leadership Team prior to the start of the season....

After almost 20 top 30 picks and over 40 list changes:
- we lack mids and midfield depth, both young talent and experienced mids
- lack small, rebounding defenders (young or otherwise)
- no small forwards
- we haven’t utilised the state leagues/rookie list for untried talent
- so many tall/3rd tall defenders/ forwards when the comp is focused on pressure...
- after all the change over an extended period of time, our list should not have the gaps it does

Just to be clear, this was his personal opinion, not an official club view


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:51 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5508
ColourMan wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
I do have to agree with Keogh on one thing though, that we still lack a lot of depth and especially in the middle and you can only look to the head coach (who is gone) and the recruiting manager to blame. I'm not on the bashing SOS bandwagon, but at some point the blame will eventually have to fall somewhere unless we improve on our midfield depth.

As I have said before, this trade period we should be looking for multiple fringe players with potential, like Martin. To maximise our trades and remain in the early part of the drafts. And as Keogh has pointed out, we don't need to go all Geelong and get big names, selling the farm or future 1st rounders to rise back up the ladder. Richmond's fringe players and rookie elevations have proven that it's not needed. We have a good talented core already, we just need help around the edges like Richmond has done and players in the right age bracket.


Spent two hours at Ikon Park with a member of the Executive Leadership Team prior to the start of the season....

After almost 20 top 30 picks and over 40 list changes:
- we lack mids and midfield depth, both young talent and experienced mids
- lack small, rebounding defenders (young or otherwise)
- no small forwards
- we haven’t utilised the state leagues/rookie list for untried talent
- so many tall/3rd tall defenders/ forwards when the comp is focused on pressure...
- after all the change over an extended period of time, our list should not have the gaps it does

Just to be clear, this was his personal opinion, not an official club view


So do you think this is a recruiting issue solely or a bi-product of the type of rebuild we have undertaken?


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 Post subject: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:20 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 3581
ColourMan wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
I do have to agree with Keogh on one thing though, that we still lack a lot of depth and especially in the middle and you can only look to the head coach (who is gone) and the recruiting manager to blame. I'm not on the bashing SOS bandwagon, but at some point the blame will eventually have to fall somewhere unless we improve on our midfield depth.

As I have said before, this trade period we should be looking for multiple fringe players with potential, like Martin. To maximise our trades and remain in the early part of the drafts. And as Keogh has pointed out, we don't need to go all Geelong and get big names, selling the farm or future 1st rounders to rise back up the ladder. Richmond's fringe players and rookie elevations have proven that it's not needed. We have a good talented core already, we just need help around the edges like Richmond has done and players in the right age bracket.


Spent two hours at Ikon Park with a member of the Executive Leadership Team prior to the start of the season....

After almost 20 top 30 picks and over 40 list changes:
- we lack mids and midfield depth, both young talent and experienced mids
- lack small, rebounding defenders (young or otherwise)
- no small forwards
- we haven’t utilised the state leagues/rookie list for untried talent
- so many tall/3rd tall defenders/ forwards when the comp is focused on pressure...
- after all the change over an extended period of time, our list should not have the gaps it does

Just to be clear, this was his personal opinion, not an official club view


Just opinions then.

I only agree with no small forwards and use of state leagues/rookies.

The rest I don’t think is accurate.

Takes years and years to build a complete list.

A quality mid
A small forward
A mature ruck

Then the list gaps get even smaller in 2020.

So we go again in 2021.

The devastation of the 2015 list management has taken years already to sort out. Going to take a couple more. But they core youth and spine is there.

Just like the Hawks did. Geelong did. Richmond did.

And apart from 2008 (and they didn’t get back for another five years) with the Hawks, the lead time to the uptick takes years from ground zero.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:44 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Its easy to select a team who just got in the grand final and say there's the blueprint, there's the profile of a winning team, and that's what we shouldve done...and look at where they were drafted.

Of those 7 rookies keogh mentions only Lambert would get a look in in most teams imo.
They play to a system devised by Hardwick, and it has evolved from having one KPF.
Don't underestimate the coach and the game plan which has taken 7 years to evolve. You forget that.

Its not the Blueprint.

The Tigers are 5 years ahead of Carlton in their rebuild, and that's after a disastrous Hughes - Rogers led recruitment.

Last night...Million dollar man, Lynch (GCS) , got them over the line.

Their top 6 did a fair bit to get them over the line too: Houli (Bombers), Prestia (GCS) Martin, Cotchin,Edwards, Ellis, Lambert. Not the bottom 7 you mentioned. Wrong again.

Soldo 10 disposals
Catagna 12 disposals
Short 13 disposals
Astbury 13 disposals
Graham 7 dispsals
Broad 3 disposals

Yeah right..the bottom 6 won it for them. :lol:

Houli defected from Bombers after issues close to he heart...

A nauseum ... Its all Setterfield's and Stocker's fault. So childish, so inappropriate, so degrading of a 19 and 20yo high pick draftee.

...and the Trade period hasn't started this year. Cogs doesn't need the money like other players...he stayed at GWS because of Loyalty and seemingly swayed by the Gil impact.

Nothing Carlton or SOS does will get your approval keogh, but I expect you to join the bandwagon when you hear the sound toot toot, saying you were glad you were wrong.
Got me thinking. Not sure if I like those type kinds of supporters TBH.



Your wrong on most points
Point is those bottom 6 did their job
Stats don’t tell the full story
Broad saved some goals last night that don’t get mentioned in the disposal stats

Look at every premiership team and where they came from
Most arnt top 10 picks
Look at all the spuds SOS has recruited from other AFL clubs particularly GWS who have been delisted
Why would you pick Fasolo
It seems to me that there hasn’t been enough emphasis on recruiting late developers from the WAFL SANFL and VFL
Every trade and pick is crucial
You are deluded
So you reckon I believe SOS and Brodie and Agresta can’t do anything right
Maybe your blinded by the SOS meister being a legend
Our list lacks depth
SOS hasn’t fixed that problem despite entering his 5 th draft
Our reserves have been pathetic for a long time too
Pull your head out of your arse and look at how the top teams do it
The light bulb in your brain my activate


You can start by toning down your personal attacks.
I'm interested in discussion and analysis.

You say I'm wrong on most points because you're right. :lol:
Great logic keogh.

My points are valid. All of them. Prove one wrong.
You've made a bunch of rash comments again as the be all to end all.
No one gets all picks right.
The recruitment team has also been a rebuild and putting pieces together that were amiss for a long time eg state leagues.

We are 4 years and almost 5 drafts into a total rebuild.
How long have Tigers been at their list?

You need a bit of balance, get your facts right, stop exaggerating and smell the roses.
Things are not as bad as you make out. Have a look at what we have got and not solely focus on what we didn't have right, and who didn't turn out a winner.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:04 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Donstuie wrote:
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:clap: :lol:

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:18 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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To be fair I still believe Keogh won us the 79 grand final ... :razz:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:42 am 
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Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 2333
ColourMan wrote:
keogh wrote:
Here is a snap shot from last nights game in regards to Richmond’s lesser lights
They all played their role effectively
Castagna 2017 rookie elevation
Short 2016 rookie elevation
Soldo 2017 rookie elevation
Lambert 2015 rookie elevation
Astbury pick 35 2009 draft
Graham pick 53 2016 draft
Broad pick 67 2015 draft

On top of this Grimes and Houli were both pre season picks

It’s this sort of recruiting that makes you a top team
In his time so far has SOS jagged any gems from nothing
Gibbons yes but can’t think of many others
Sure they gave up a lot to get Presty and Lynch was a gift called free agency

But every year the top teams are littered with guys who have been drafted from obscurity

Do the research
Richmond won last night without their best defender Riewoldt had a shocker as did Cotchin

West Coast won it without 3 top ten picks last year in Nick Nat Shepherd and Gaff

Our recruiting under SOS and Brodie is not good enough compared to other teams
like Richmond and Clarke
In order to get Martin we will probably have to part with 2 picks and because of what our recruiting team did last year that means a future pick
All for another bloke who is talented with big wraps but up to this point hasn’t done a lot to back it up
Like McGovern




As I have said before the most important person at a footy club is your head of recruiting


You left out Liam Baker who we chased this year...

And Jack Ross and Sydney Stack who are both better than Baker

And as for Jack Graham, BB wanted him a few picks before the tigers took him, SOS won the argument and took Macreadie

Then again, BB seriously wanted Josh Dunkley, he lost that argument too, and Ed Richards, well you know how that went... our midfield depth wouldn’t be as shallow as it is

From last night’s game, the Cats turned Darcy Lang into Gryan Miers


Think this is being slightly untruthful. Senior coaches dont get involved in scouting players.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:01 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
To be fair I still believe Keogh won us the 79 grand final ... :razz:

'81 ?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:10 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm
Posts: 2251
keogh wrote:
One thing I can say with fair confidence is SOS is stubborn and rigid

Roll on 2020 and 2021

Hopefully I’m wrong



how many gws guys running out in next weeks GF has SOS recruited? 14 or 15? couple of others won't play due to injury...
I think he might know a little more than you and i....more so you than i....


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:17 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 1002
keogh wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Its easy to select a team who just got in the grand final and say there's the blueprint, there's the profile of a winning team, and that's what we shouldve done...and look at where they were drafted.

Of those 7 rookies keogh mentions only Lambert would get a look in in most teams imo.
They play to a system devised by Hardwick, and it has evolved from having one KPF.
Don't underestimate the coach and the game plan which has taken 7 years to evolve. You forget that.

Its not the Blueprint.

The Tigers are 5 years ahead of Carlton in their rebuild, and that's after a disastrous Hughes - Rogers led recruitment.

Last night...Million dollar man, Lynch (GCS) , got them over the line.

Their top 6 did a fair bit to get them over the line too: Houli (Bombers), Prestia (GCS) Martin, Cotchin,Edwards, Ellis, Lambert. Not the bottom 7 you mentioned. Wrong again.

Soldo 10 disposals
Catagna 12 disposals
Short 13 disposals
Astbury 13 disposals
Graham 7 dispsals
Broad 3 disposals

Yeah right..the bottom 6 won it for them. :lol:

Houli defected from Bombers after issues close to he heart...

A nauseum ... Its all Setterfield's and Stocker's fault. So childish, so inappropriate, so degrading of a 19 and 20yo high pick draftee.

...and the Trade period hasn't started this year. Cogs doesn't need the money like other players...he stayed at GWS because of Loyalty and seemingly swayed by the Gil impact.

Nothing Carlton or SOS does will get your approval keogh, but I expect you to join the bandwagon when you hear the sound toot toot, saying you were glad you were wrong.
Got me thinking. Not sure if I like those type kinds of supporters TBH.



Your wrong on most points
Point is those bottom 6 did their job
Stats don’t tell the full story
Broad saved some goals last night that don’t get mentioned in the disposal stats

Look at every premiership team and where they came from
Most arnt top 10 picks
Look at all the spuds SOS has recruited from other AFL clubs particularly GWS who have been delisted
Why would you pick Fasolo
It seems to me that there hasn’t been enough emphasis on recruiting late developers from the WAFL SANFL and VFL
Every trade and pick is crucial
You are deluded
So you reckon I believe SOS and Brodie and Agresta can’t do anything right
Maybe your blinded by the SOS meister being a legend
Our list lacks depth
SOS hasn’t fixed that problem despite entering his 5 th draft
Our reserves have been pathetic for a long time too
Pull your head out of your arse and look at how the top teams do it
The light bulb in your brain my activate


So you expect SOS to rebuild the worst list in the AFL in 4 years by comparing it to Richmond list that was built in 10 years? Got it :screwy:


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