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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:10 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Charlie30 wrote:
Free agents is the best way to pick up A grade players.
Costs you salary cap space and moves you one spot down the draft order.

Spot on. :thumbsup:
Hence why should only be looking at fringe players with potential to trade for at the moment. That won't cost us the earth.
It'll keep us more relevant for longer. i.e. If the Lions get knocked out in straight sets, I bet they will be glad they still have top talent being drafted into the club. The cheats on the other hand.......oh well.


Last edited by Sidefx on Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:39 am 
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Geoff Southby
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DocSherrin III wrote:
Charlie30 wrote:
[But if you look at it with your eyes wide open, we have only become slightly attractive since Teague took over.
Start winning on a regular basis and they will come.


You might be surprised. Attractive and relevant. This year. The football department hasn't look this organised and professional in a very long time. So when you have the CEO, the Head of Football, the List Managers, the coach and the captain all singing from the same hymn sheet - footballers start to notice and their managers start to take notice too.

But as a footballer - you'd actually be better off coming to Carlton now. And the aforementioned gentlemen are making that known. The pitch to a prospective player looks a hell of a lot better when you're on the cusp of something. They're selling the fact that they think they're on the cusp of something pretty damn good. And they're not doing that just for the likes of Dan Butler and Tom Papley - neither of which will need much enticing. They're casting the net pretty wide to try and entice someone before they come out of contract next year.

Right now - Carlton are a player managers dream. Robbie D'Orazio (part of Connors Sports Management) knows exactly what Collingwood need to pony up for Brodie Grundy because the Blues have already tabled what they think he's worth. Same goes for Lachie Whitfield, same goes for Braydon Fiorini, Brayden Sier, Oliver Florent. All out of contract soonish, all wanting to play finals, all wanting to get paid what they're worth. We can't sell them finals....but we can sell FOMO. And you don't want to get to the end of your career and say 'Probably should have signed with Carlton when they were chasing me'.

Those moments don't come along very often. Neither does an organised and happy Carlton. Best to strike while the iron is hot.


Doc, just out of curiosity. While I agree players should be looking at us and coming early is a better option to make sure you can, is definitely more beneficial to them personally. And in someway to us for immediate winning purposes also. But, how is it better for the club to trade for someone who is coming out of contract next year? Why wouldn't we just wait and pick them up as possible RFAs or FAs if they want to come anyway? (assuming we are targeting players in the 24-27 range).


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:44 am 
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Geoff Southby
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17th Premiership wrote:
TBH, I have a more positive view about Betts and I’m more optimistic about Teague.
However, I think this (remaining reserved about Teague atm) is a perfectly reasonable position.
Picking a head coach is one of the toughest jobs to get right - even the super coaches don’t always succeed in all conditions at different clubs or even at the same club at different times.
Teague has done an amazing job, no doubt.
BUT, as others have pointed out, he has picked some low hanging fruit (e.g. Murphy and Ed into the middle) and probably benefited from a change in tone.
The question remains about how he goes when he has to build a more robust game plan and needs the players to execute plans a bit more than just play free. And also, once other coaches start to work us out a bit more.
IMO, one of the strengths he displayed this year was responding tactically on game day which also showed good planning as well as smarts.
So, I’m positive and think he will be great.
But we won’t know for sure for a while. (Even Bolton got a bounce in his first year...)


This pretty much sums up my thoughts. Let's hope over the summer the players roles become more defined and in-turn they become more accountable and we see some solid development from the kids. Especially the 3rd and 4th year players. With a more consistent season we should be beating away mature guns with a stick, come this time next year.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:17 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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FWIW... according to Sam Edmund (Carlton supporter) on SEN

Liddle was working on Ellis back in Feb then got Brad Lloyd on board. SOS then recently canned it.

Teague wants Betts on board but again, SOS resistant.

Upshot was there's a breakdown in chain of command, apparently.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:39 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Not good if true. The question then becomes, is SOS going rogue or does he have a clear picture of what he wants?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:20 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Rexy wrote:
FWIW... according to Sam Edmund (Carlton supporter) on SEN

Liddle was working on Ellis back in Feb then got Brad Lloyd on board. SOS then recently canned it.

Teague wants Betts on board but again, SOS resistant.

Upshot was there's a breakdown in chain of command, apparently.

Liddle & Lloyd are the only ones out of line here. The CEO in particular.

Not that you’d give any oxygen to a haircut like Edmund’s.

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 Post subject: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:28 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am
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Carlton supporters seem easy to shit stir sometimes.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:39 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Crusader wrote:
Rexy wrote:
FWIW... according to Sam Edmund (Carlton supporter) on SEN

Liddle was working on Ellis back in Feb then got Brad Lloyd on board. SOS then recently canned it.

Teague wants Betts on board but again, SOS resistant.

Upshot was there's a breakdown in chain of command, apparently.

Liddle & Lloyd are the only ones out of line here. The CEO in particular.

Not that you’d give any oxygen to a haircut like Edmund’s.


Bingo! :thanks:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:42 am 
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Banned

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Rexy wrote:
FWIW... according to Sam Edmund (Carlton supporter) on SEN

Liddle was working on Ellis back in Feb then got Brad Lloyd on board. SOS then recently canned it.

Teague wants Betts on board but again, SOS resistant.

Upshot was there's a breakdown in chain of command, apparently.


SOS is the boss and in SOS I trust.

The list has come a long way and only way is up. If SOS has a vision or five year plan for the list then it must be respected imo.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:29 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Rexy wrote:
FWIW... according to Sam Edmund (Carlton supporter) on SEN

Liddle was working on Ellis back in Feb then got Brad Lloyd on board. SOS then recently canned it.

Teague wants Betts on board but again, SOS resistant.

Upshot was there's a breakdown in chain of command, apparently.


Or it could just be this.

From BF

Quote:
tencentpiece said:
Ellis camp started demanding more money late in the piece (after it became apparent that we wouldn't get cogs), that's why we dropped interest. There is a chance that we will take another look now but SOS isn't happy that what was basically a hand shake deal tried to get changed at the last minute due to the perception we had more money to spend. Really a matter of finding out how much Ellis had to do with that and how much was his management team.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:57 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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What about targeting Luke Partington from Glenelg. He has some pretty good stats in the SANFL and just won the Magarey Medal.

https://sanfl.com.au/league/clubs/glene ... eason=2019


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:26 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I'd be happy with Martin, Viney and Butler.

Papley would be a nice bonus too...


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:30 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Rexy wrote:
I'd be happy with Martin, Viney and Butler.

Papley would be a nice bonus too...


Carlton have the picks to trade for them.

There may be another FA or in contract player who may join them.
Carlton have a few first round selections they can trade.
Casboult has currency.

Who knows, SOS may scrape up a few 2nd rounders for 2019 & 2020.
and, have 2021 first selection to trade, with permission ofcourse.

I'm loving the courting of Betts and Jacobs and the positive publicity it brings for Carlton.
Along with Martin, this newfound 'romantic' pubicity wreaks of Destination Club to me,
or the beginnings of one.

The above 4 would be a great coup.
I reckon SOS will net us a bigger fish than Vivey.
Just a hunch. Plus there's plenty of good noise coming Carlton's way.

One down with Martin and 3 or 4 to go.
Bring on the next one SOS.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:53 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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I bet there's more than one player's manager SOS is discussing but are still in Finals:
Some of them may be calls to SOS from managers, rather than the standard SOS enquiries. Destination Club and all.

West Coast ... Petrocelli and (another big name squeezed out for Kelly) ?
Richmond ... Butler, some other? possibly Ellis (FA) ?
Brisbane ... Cutler, Christensen, other?
Collingwood ... Elliot (FA), De Goey, Grundy (he may have a fallout next year), Other?
Geelong ...no one I really care for TBA

GWS ... anything can fall out from there, Williams, Tomlison (FA)? SOS wants a big win from them?

30 more days before finals finish.

I am so excited from our 2020 prospects.
I really expected us in this position last year.
Better late than never.
I have to remind myself the majority on our list are still quality kids.

I'm still expecting to net Martin, Papley, Cameron and a big midfield fish (Wines, Viney, Williams, types).
Papley is a big fish, Betts like, but small forwards.
Betts to add the cream to the cake for all the good publicity he brings plus 30 goals he can bring.
Butler is testing us and vice versa. I doubt SOS is promising the world.

Can never have enough good players
Injuries happen.

Success is determined by the quality of the bottom 6 in the 22 that run out each week.
We need 24+yo's to improve our experience needed for a finals profile in 2 years.

The list is getting deeper, and richer.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:49 pm 
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John Nicholls
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bondi tell us more about this romantic pubicity..... do you have a link? :)

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:05 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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bondiblue wrote:
I bet there's more than one player's manager SOS is discussing but are still in Finals:
Some of them may be calls to SOS from managers, rather than the standard SOS enquiries. Destination Club and all.

West Coast ... Petrocelli and (another big name squeezed out for Kelly) ?
Richmond ... Butler, some other? possibly Ellis (FA) ?
Brisbane ... Cutler, Christensen, other?
Collingwood ... Elliot (FA), De Goey, Grundy (he may have a fallout next year), Other?
Geelong ...no one I really care for TBA

GWS ... anything can fall out from there, Williams, Tomlison (FA)? SOS wants a big win from them?

30 more days before finals finish.

I am so excited from our 2020 prospects.
I really expected us in this position last year.
Better late than never.
I have to remind myself the majority on our list are still quality kids.

I'm still expecting to net Martin, Papley, Cameron and a big midfield fish (Wines, Viney, Williams, types).
Papley is a big fish, Betts like, but small forwards.
Betts to add the cream to the cake for all the good publicity he brings plus 30 goals he can bring.
Butler is testing us and vice versa. I doubt SOS is promising the world.

Can never have enough good players
Injuries happen.

Success is determined by the quality of the bottom 6 in the 22 that run out each week.
We need 24+yo's to improve our experience needed for a finals profile in 2 years.

The list is getting deeper, and richer.

:thanks:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:59 pm 
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Garry Crane

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Apologies if this is stated elsewhere but what is the requirement for clubs to recruit from the draft? All this talk about trading in players yet I was under the impression that clubs were required to recruit a minimum number of players from the draft? Is that right?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:57 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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robertbb wrote:
bondi tell us more about this romantic pubicity..... do you have a link? :)

I'm obviously not Bondi but are your eyes and ears painted on?
For weeks we have been getting this all over the net and the print press.
Betts romantic connection to Carlton and Teague.
Jacobs has a medical.
Martin likely to choose us.
Papley
Links to the past, future destination club.

Lots of positive stuff that the sponsors WANT and love because every time the club is mentioned, there is an association with the sponsor. Every time there is a photo of someone in a Carton polo there is a Hyundai logo on display. Every time there is an interview there are sponsors' logos in the background as well. Gibbons gets VFL life membership is already all over the joint. Gibbons in Carlton Hyundai polo. They could equally have put him in his VFL jumper. It's also why I wanted to recruit Majak years ago. Before he ever played a game Mazda was laughing all the way to the bank.

We've been the brunt of bad publicity and derision for too long. This is EXACTLY what the club needs to attract players and sponsors. With it comes more favourable press from those who hate us. They have no choice but to come on board or be left on the sidelines. They are already changing from us to Adelaide bashing.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:12 am 
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John Nicholls
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Thanks, but when one has to explain the joke it's over ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:54 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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robertbb wrote:
Thanks, but when one has to explain the joke it's over ;-)

:oops:
A simple whoosh might have sufficed.

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