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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:46 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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On a separate note, our list manager was recently on a podcast in the series
'Road to the Draft' on the AFL site.
I listened to it last night.
Good stuff.
I like the transparency the club is bringing to the table at the moment.
Also the respect for confidential discussions.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:02 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
FWIW, I think it's important we win some games next year to get the winning feeling back, get the supporters back and make the club look better in the eyes of a potential trade or FA.
If Eddie helps us do that, he is worth getting at a low pick. Talking about a fourth rounder at best. Adelaide is rooted. They want to clean out the entire joint and start again. Eddie isn't on that horizon. They won't delist him because he's worth something so they are playing the game. They will let him go if they can get a half decent deal.
The other thing is the publicity the club gets from such a trade. The sponsors who have stuck with us in the lean years have been hanging to get their logos on the TV. Eddie brings that. It makes us more attractive to sponsors so getting them through the door is an important part of the club's image and exposure.
If he turns out to be a two year player when we are in the eight, so much better but if we just get one good year out of him, it will be worth it.

We lost four games by less than a goal. Put Eddie in this team and we win all those games because he does that stuff. 11 wins would have been pretty nice this year.

Le Bois is never going to make it or he would be showing something.
Gibbons is a mid fielder that BB played in the forward pocket. Teague released him into the middle much more and he will be even better next year.
Owie is an unknown.

Nothing wrong with Eddie up there at Harry's feet that I can see.


Stop making sense. Agree with all the above. We can get Betts till we find another, or develop one.

Gibbons shows stuff all the great mids show. He's a very good midfielder with a great engine: one of the best at the club.
Its such a waste having his engine purring in the FP going to waste.

He has a bit of mongrel too.

I just wonder what happens if Betts comes cheap with Crows blessing and then we have Papley for a first rounder instead of the 2 1sts with 2 seconds coming back, Butler decides Princes Park will be a great home, and Gray comes for free too. Talk about choice. I don't think Butler would have toured the facilities if there wasn't an offer. Then there's Martin who we may get at the right price too.

Reminds me of the model Ratts was building then the Tigers adopted to win a flag with Setanta (McKay) and his little helpers Betts Garlett Walker Yarran (Betts Papley Butler Martin).

We will fill holes this trade season....and they're the prospects we know of till the Grand Final is played.

Looking at how many players are earmarked as targets we know of, I'd put money on SOS having already held discussions with player managers from top 8 teams, who may be attracted to Princes Park. We have Players, Picks to play with, and more FA's to target next year.

Its going to be a Bonanza for Carlton this October.


This is what concerns me. It seems this is the only model Teague knows and it didn't work for us then and most likely won't work for us now. The Tigers have evolved this model for a reason and that's why they brought in Lynch and are now favourites. Plus they have fast running mids that can deliver and pressure the ball carrier. Strong successful teams are built from defence and our midfield is currently our Achilles' heel in this process.


You have a short memory, and you are making up stuff.

Do you remember the midfield brigade at Carlton at the time touted as the best in the business with Judd Stevens Carrazzo and Murphy? Then after the game against Essendrug on their steroid rage we jard a shoulder injury to Carrazzo, and a multiple of injuries to Murphy etc...well it derailed us....the there was the ganging up on Judd when....the season was full of promise. Nothing to do with the almighty Setanta's helpers failure: they were our weapon. I repeat Betts, Garlett, Walker....all kicking multiple goals and talk of the town. This strategy has been mentioned again during Richmond's premiership year and since.

You pitch your post as if they are fact when they are not. Your argument, for argument sake, with your made up points is baseless.

How do you know Teague has only one game plan? Sorry mate, you are out of order and obviously a Teague hater. This isn't gong to be rational discussion.

Remember Teague didnt sack Bolton. Get over it.

Most likely wont work? What? and why not? You are going to make something up now.

The Tigers bought in Lynch because they could get him. Period. Nothing to do with failing game plan. Reiwoldt is not a spring chicken, he's 31yo. Lynch is 26yo. Do you wonder why they really got Lynch other than he wanted to go to a team who was likely to win flags? Succession plan.

Tigers have been flag favourites for the last 2 years, Last year without Lynch. Where do you get off?

You suggest midfield is our achilles heel, then you suggesting our problem is the Teague's only game plan ala Rattens Setanta's helpers? We are after mids. Watch this space till after the GF. You will be surprised their is a plan SOS has to fill gaps. Its the plan they have been transparent with all along.

Incase you haven't noticed, our defence is set, and we have depth there. Our forward pillars are set in stone. We have the best Clearance player and contested bull in the competition with able support......its not as bad as you make out. We are young, have 3 holes, and we have this and next trade season to fill them. I can see them being ffilled this season with the exception of the ruck, because TDK is a couple of years away from ready: probably when we are giving it a tilt for the GF.

I want to talk about Blue skies and what we are doing right, because the only negative noises I'm hearing about Carlton and SOS in you and keogh.

You're welcome to get on the Teague Train. Its not too late

Toot-Toot 20-20.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:21 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
Whether we "have small forwards" or not, I can't see how anyone can disagree that the options we have in that position are way below the required standard.


No disagreement from me.
I just don’t think a 33yo ex Carlton player is worth spending any picks or money on. Nor do I think this is the role that requires immediate attention, unlike our midfield. Helping Cripps and Kreuzer should be our only priority.


Exaggerating again...

He wont be picked up if we get Papley.
If we do pick him up it may be for a 5th rounder and money we can afford.
We do have a need for a small forward. For christ sake, our CEO even let it out of the bag.

Helping Cripps is our main objective, and I don't know how Bettsy disrupts that in ANY way.
Replacing Kreuzer will be happening temporarily I suspect till TDK is ready to start playing regular games in this position.

Any ideas coming forward to help Cripps out like an Ollie Wines is shot down.

Give you a tip. Cripps will get plenty of new found help. :wink:

Now back to the small forward:

Betts, a proven goal kicker with only 1-2 seasons left, may be a stopgap if we don't find one.
Papley is the one we want but wont part with 2 first rounders coz SOS has someone in mind for next years First Rounder :wink:
Butler, may be another option but his manager may be trying to drive up his price.
Gray we can have for nothing and can help out small forward and stints in midfield as an accumulator, but not better than Betts as a small forward.
Martin is on the cards for a second rounder.

And you think we don't have a need for a Small forward. :lol:
Why are we looking?

Come on Sidefx, get with the program.
Where's good sidefx gone?
Lately you've gone nuts imo. :screwy:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:23 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Sombrero wrote:
On a separate note, our list manager was recently on a podcast in the series
'Road to the Draft' on the AFL site.
I listened to it last night.
Good stuff.
I like the transparency the club is bringing to the table at the moment.
Also the respect for confidential discussions.


Brilliant stuff.

Have a look at the off field staff talent we have accumulated over the last 3 years and its incredible the calibre of people we have attracted.

This is the new Carlton.

Like you say, Transparency, Respect and there's tentacles nation wide.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:23 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
Having been on Carlton sc website a poster provided a link to
the roar website where this guy gives a thorough analysis of the teams yearly performance
It’s also from someone who is impartial and goes into incredible detail

One area he is big on is age demographic
Being a young team as we are with more under 23 players than most teams we will obviously struggle for a while
This is compounded by a lack of quality when a player is at his peak from 24 to 28 years of age
We are obviously way behind there with only Cripps
Docherty would be there if he was fit

The concern is the performance of our 19 to 23 year olds in relation to players of the same age at other clubs.
This particular applies to our future midfield of Dow OBrien Setterfield Fisher SPS and Cuningham in association with Cripps and Curnow
Murphy is 33 next year he won’t be at the club much longer . I know it’s one game in isolation but compare Narkle to some of our youngsters in that last game and they look second rate

Our spine is looking good so why trade 3 players for a mid size tall who hasn’t done much in his previous 48 Games
Being a top 10 pick guarantees you nothing
Trading away away picks for one player doesn’t guarantee success either
Have a look at Essendon* last night with Stringer and Shield costing them 4 good picks
They are way off top 4
I guess if you want to bury your head in the sand don’t read it
I don’t agree with everything he says but at least it provides another insight
into a topic where all interested in


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:40 am 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:57 am
Posts: 13
Free agents is the best way to pick up A grade players.
Costs you salary cap space and moves you one spot down the draft order.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:10 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Posts: 24282
Location: Kaloyasena
Charlie30 wrote:
Free agents is the best way to pick up A grade players.
Costs you salary cap space and moves you one spot down the draft order.



Unless of course the AFL don’t want you to get them.


:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:24 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:
Having been on Carlton sc website a poster provided a link to
the roar website where this guy gives a thorough analysis of the teams yearly performance
It’s also from someone who is impartial and goes into incredible detail

One area he is big on is age demographic
Being a young team as we are with more under 23 players than most teams we will obviously struggle for a while
This is compounded by a lack of quality when a player is at his peak from 24 to 28 years of age
We are obviously way behind there with only Cripps
Docherty would be there if he was fit

The concern is the performance of our 19 to 23 year olds in relation to players of the same age at other clubs.
This particular applies to our future midfield of Dow OBrien Setterfield Fisher SPS and Cuningham in association with Cripps and Curnow
Murphy is 33 next year he won’t be at the club much longer . I know it’s one game in isolation but compare Narkle to some of our youngsters in that last game and they look second rate

Our spine is looking good so why trade 3 players for a mid size tall who hasn’t done much in his previous 48 Games
Being a top 10 pick guarantees you nothing
Trading away away picks for one player doesn’t guarantee success either
Have a look at Essendon** last night with Stringer and Shield costing them 4 good picks
They are way off top 4
I guess if you want to bury your head in the sand don’t read it
I don’t agree with everything he says but at least it provides another insight
into a topic where all interested in


Crap report by a North Melb supporter.

Doesn't know our list and is second guessing.

I have ripped into that report somewhere else.

Limited knowledge of our list, contradicts himself.

I guess he says the things you want us to believe.

I don't buy it.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:33 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Posts: 5463
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
FWIW, I think it's important we win some games next year to get the winning feeling back, get the supporters back and make the club look better in the eyes of a potential trade or FA.
If Eddie helps us do that, he is worth getting at a low pick. Talking about a fourth rounder at best. Adelaide is rooted. They want to clean out the entire joint and start again. Eddie isn't on that horizon. They won't delist him because he's worth something so they are playing the game. They will let him go if they can get a half decent deal.
The other thing is the publicity the club gets from such a trade. The sponsors who have stuck with us in the lean years have been hanging to get their logos on the TV. Eddie brings that. It makes us more attractive to sponsors so getting them through the door is an important part of the club's image and exposure.
If he turns out to be a two year player when we are in the eight, so much better but if we just get one good year out of him, it will be worth it.

We lost four games by less than a goal. Put Eddie in this team and we win all those games because he does that stuff. 11 wins would have been pretty nice this year.

Le Bois is never going to make it or he would be showing something.
Gibbons is a mid fielder that BB played in the forward pocket. Teague released him into the middle much more and he will be even better next year.
Owie is an unknown.

Nothing wrong with Eddie up there at Harry's feet that I can see.


Stop making sense. Agree with all the above. We can get Betts till we find another, or develop one.

Gibbons shows stuff all the great mids show. He's a very good midfielder with a great engine: one of the best at the club.
Its such a waste having his engine purring in the FP going to waste.

He has a bit of mongrel too.

I just wonder what happens if Betts comes cheap with Crows blessing and then we have Papley for a first rounder instead of the 2 1sts with 2 seconds coming back, Butler decides Princes Park will be a great home, and Gray comes for free too. Talk about choice. I don't think Butler would have toured the facilities if there wasn't an offer. Then there's Martin who we may get at the right price too.

Reminds me of the model Ratts was building then the Tigers adopted to win a flag with Setanta (McKay) and his little helpers Betts Garlett Walker Yarran (Betts Papley Butler Martin).

We will fill holes this trade season....and they're the prospects we know of till the Grand Final is played.

Looking at how many players are earmarked as targets we know of, I'd put money on SOS having already held discussions with player managers from top 8 teams, who may be attracted to Princes Park. We have Players, Picks to play with, and more FA's to target next year.

Its going to be a Bonanza for Carlton this October.


This is what concerns me. It seems this is the only model Teague knows and it didn't work for us then and most likely won't work for us now. The Tigers have evolved this model for a reason and that's why they brought in Lynch and are now favourites. Plus they have fast running mids that can deliver and pressure the ball carrier. Strong successful teams are built from defence and our midfield is currently our Achilles' heel in this process.


You have a short memory, and you are making up stuff.

Do you remember the midfield brigade at Carlton at the time touted as the best in the business with Judd Stevens Carrazzo and Murphy? Then after the game against Essendrug on their steroid rage we jard a shoulder injury to Carrazzo, and a multiple of injuries to Murphy etc...well it derailed us....the there was the ganging up on Judd when....the season was full of promise. Nothing to do with the almighty Setanta's helpers failure: they were our weapon. I repeat Betts, Garlett, Walker....all kicking multiple goals and talk of the town. This strategy has been mentioned again during Richmond's premiership year and since.

You pitch your post as if they are fact when they are not. Your argument, for argument sake, with your made up points is baseless.

How do you know Teague has only one game plan? Sorry mate, you are out of order and obviously a Teague hater. This isn't gong to be rational discussion.

Remember Teague didnt sack Bolton. Get over it.

Most likely wont work? What? and why not? You are going to make something up now.

The Tigers bought in Lynch because they could get him. Period. Nothing to do with failing game plan. Reiwoldt is not a spring chicken, he's 31yo. Lynch is 26yo. Do you wonder why they really got Lynch other than he wanted to go to a team who was likely to win flags? Succession plan.

Tigers have been flag favourites for the last 2 years, Last year without Lynch. Where do you get off?

You suggest midfield is our achilles heel, then you suggesting our problem is the Teague's only game plan ala Rattens Setanta's helpers? We are after mids. Watch this space till after the GF. You will be surprised their is a plan SOS has to fill gaps. Its the plan they have been transparent with all along.

Incase you haven't noticed, our defence is set, and we have depth there. Our forward pillars are set in stone. We have the best Clearance player and contested bull in the competition with able support......its not as bad as you make out. We are young, have 3 holes, and we have this and next trade season to fill them. I can see them being ffilled this season with the exception of the ruck, because TDK is a couple of years away from ready: probably when we are giving it a tilt for the GF.

I want to talk about Blue skies and what we are doing right, because the only negative noises I'm hearing about Carlton and SOS in you and keogh.

You're welcome to get on the Teague Train. Its not too late

Toot-Toot 20-20.


What are you waffling on about now.

The only fact you need to understand about the Judd, Betts & co era is this - we didn't win a flag or even make top 4 = failed. It's pretty simple.

Richmond have attracted/obtained/hunted another key tall in Lynch to keep them successful and have evolved their game plan accordingly. Any other information about age, succession plans etc is just waffle, unless you work for the club and know different.
As for flag favourites last year, they were the reigning premiers FFS. Of course they were flag favourites. And this year it wasn't until the back half of the year and more importantly the last 4 weeks that they were mooted as flag favourites again. Including by myself.

As for Bolts, when are you lot going to understand that me questioning Teague's ability is in isolation to him and him only. Bolts has gone, no longer at the club and has nothing to do with us going forward. It's not that hard and to be frank, I'm getting sick of having to spell it out every time. Just because I'm not drinking the Kool Aid doesn't mean I'm a hater. I'm just being reserved until I see Teague do something that impresses me and says, yes this bloke can take us to a premiership. And none of us will know that until next season.

And if you feel that trading in a 33yo player (we will not get him for nothing and I doubt even a 5th rounder as he is required by the club that we screwed on the Gibbs deal) and trading away multiple 1st round picks is how we are going to win our next premiership and stay successful. Good for you, that's your opinion.
I am not a romantic and I am longer running on emotion when it comes to how our club moves forward and all the wild trade possibilities that could be. It's been a tough 3 years and finally there is light at the end of the tunnel and I don't think the club should be throwing all cards on the table yet (i.e. what the cheats have done). I'm more analytical these days and I have a different opinion and will not change it unless I see otherwise. And this does not mean I'm any less positive about the club.

So if you think my opinion is negative because it differs to yours, then that's a you thing and only you can fix that. I look forward to seeing what mids we can attract and I just hope to god we don't sell the farm to do it. Because it is quite possible we will push too hard too early for instant results, over having patience for a little more organic growth in the playing list. And that is my opinion.


Last edited by Sidefx on Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:44 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 2289
Location: Geelong
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
Whether we "have small forwards" or not, I can't see how anyone can disagree that the options we have in that position are way below the required standard.


No disagreement from me.
I just don’t think a 33yo ex Carlton player is worth spending any picks or money on. Nor do I think this is the role that requires immediate attention, unlike our midfield. Helping Cripps and Kreuzer should be our only priority.


Exaggerating again...

He wont be picked up if we get Papley.
If we do pick him up it may be for a 5th rounder and money we can afford.
We do have a need for a small forward. For christ sake, our CEO even let it out of the bag.

Helping Cripps is our main objective, and I don't know how Bettsy disrupts that in ANY way.
Replacing Kreuzer will be happening temporarily I suspect till TDK is ready to start playing regular games in this position.

Any ideas coming forward to help Cripps out like an Ollie Wines is shot down.

Give you a tip. Cripps will get plenty of new found help. :wink:

Now back to the small forward:

Betts, a proven goal kicker with only 1-2 seasons left, may be a stopgap if we don't find one.
Papley is the one we want but wont part with 2 first rounders coz SOS has someone in mind for next years First Rounder :wink:
Butler, may be another option but his manager may be trying to drive up his price.
Gray we can have for nothing and can help out small forward and stints in midfield as an accumulator, but not better than Betts as a small forward.
Martin is on the cards for a second rounder.

And you think we don't have a need for a Small forward. :lol:
Why are we looking?

Come on Sidefx, get with the program.
Where's good sidefx gone?
Lately you've gone nuts imo. :screwy:


Helping Cripps is our main objective, and I don't know how Bettsy disrupts that in ANY way. --> there's only so many places on the list and we only have so much to offer in a trade. Whatever we'd use on Betts we wouldn't get to use on someone else.

Betts, a proven goal kicker with only 1-2 seasons left --> proven past tense though. No doubt about the quality of his career, but if's he's no longer able to command a regular game for Adelaide then that needs to be taken into account.

If we were top 4, or even threatening to ascend to such heights maybe a 32 year old might be worth a punt. We're not. We're bottom three. I agree with you Bondi that we appear at last to be heading in the right direction, but it's very early days. If you'll forgive a personal opinion, as much as I love your positivity and optimism lately you seem to be seeing the glass as being a lot more than half full. FWIW I hope you're right, but it's hard to see Betts being part of our next prelim let alone #17.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:29 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm
Posts: 2251
keogh wrote:
Having been on Carlton sc website a poster provided a link to
the roar website where this guy gives a thorough analysis of the teams yearly performance
It’s also from someone who is impartial and goes into incredible detail

One area he is big on is age demographic
Being a young team as we are with more under 23 players than most teams we will obviously struggle for a while
This is compounded by a lack of quality when a player is at his peak from 24 to 28 years of age
We are obviously way behind there with only Cripps
Docherty would be there if he was fit


This particular applies to our future midfield of Dow OBrien Setterfield Fisher SPS and Cuningham in association with Cripps and Curnow
Murphy is 33 next year he won’t be at the club much longer . I know it’s one game in isolation but compare Narkle to some of our youngsters in that last game and they look second rate

Our spine is looking good so why trade 3 players for a mid size tall who hasn’t done much in his previous 48 Games
Being a top 10 pick guarantees you nothing
Trading away away picks for one player doesn’t guarantee success either
Have a look at Essendon** last night with Stringer and Shield costing them 4 good picks
They are way off top 4
I guess if you want to bury your head in the sand don’t read it
I don’t agree with everything he says but at least it provides another insight
into a topic where all interested in



so don't use top 10 picks but don't trade them either?
what a conundrum


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:56 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:57 am
Posts: 13
AGRO wrote:
Charlie30 wrote:
Free agents is the best way to pick up A grade players.
Costs you salary cap space and moves you one spot down the draft order.



Unless of course the AFL don’t want you to get them.


:roll:


Yes we can look at trying to blame other parties. But if you look at it with your eyes wide open, we have only become slightly attractive since Teague took over.
Start winning on a regular basis and they will come.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:15 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24282
Location: Kaloyasena
Charlie30 wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Charlie30 wrote:
Free agents is the best way to pick up A grade players.
Costs you salary cap space and moves you one spot down the draft order.



Unless of course the AFL don’t want you to get them.


:roll:


Yes we can look at trying to blame other parties. But if you look at it with your eyes wide open, we have only become slightly attractive since Teague took over.
Start winning on a regular basis and they will come.



Yes the world is full of rainbows and the tooth fairy leaves $1 under your pillow - Coniglio was on the way until divine intervention.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:36 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Charlie30 wrote:
[But if you look at it with your eyes wide open, we have only become slightly attractive since Teague took over.
Start winning on a regular basis and they will come.


You might be surprised. Attractive and relevant. This year. The football department hasn't look this organised and professional in a very long time. So when you have the CEO, the Head of Football, the List Managers, the coach and the captain all singing from the same hymn sheet - footballers start to notice and their managers start to take notice too.

But as a footballer - you'd actually be better off coming to Carlton now. And the aforementioned gentlemen are making that known. The pitch to a prospective player looks a hell of a lot better when you're on the cusp of something. They're selling the fact that they think they're on the cusp of something pretty damn good. And they're not doing that just for the likes of Dan Butler and Tom Papley - neither of which will need much enticing. They're casting the net pretty wide to try and entice someone before they come out of contract next year.

Right now - Carlton are a player managers dream. Robbie D'Orazio (part of Connors Sports Management) knows exactly what Collingwood need to pony up for Brodie Grundy because the Blues have already tabled what they think he's worth. Same goes for Lachie Whitfield, same goes for Braydon Fiorini, Brayden Sier, Oliver Florent. All out of contract soonish, all wanting to play finals, all wanting to get paid what they're worth. We can't sell them finals....but we can sell FOMO. And you don't want to get to the end of your career and say 'Probably should have signed with Carlton when they were chasing me'.

Those moments don't come along very often. Neither does an organised and happy Carlton. Best to strike while the iron is hot.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:54 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I like Florent....

moves very well...!


kindest regards tommi

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:37 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
DocSherrin III wrote:
Charlie30 wrote:
[But if you look at it with your eyes wide open, we have only become slightly attractive since Teague took over.
Start winning on a regular basis and they will come.


You might be surprised. Attractive and relevant. This year. The football department hasn't look this organised and professional in a very long time. So when you have the CEO, the Head of Football, the List Managers, the coach and the captain all singing from the same hymn sheet - footballers start to notice and their managers start to take notice too.

But as a footballer - you'd actually be better off coming to Carlton now. And the aforementioned gentlemen are making that known. The pitch to a prospective player looks a hell of a lot better when you're on the cusp of something. They're selling the fact that they think they're on the cusp of something pretty damn good. And they're not doing that just for the likes of Dan Butler and Tom Papley - neither of which will need much enticing. They're casting the net pretty wide to try and entice someone before they come out of contract next year.

Right now - Carlton are a player managers dream. Robbie D'Orazio (part of Connors Sports Management) knows exactly what Collingwood need to pony up for Brodie Grundy because the Blues have already tabled what they think he's worth. Same goes for Lachie Whitfield, same goes for Braydon Fiorini, Brayden Sier, Oliver Florent. All out of contract soonish, all wanting to play finals, all wanting to get paid what they're worth. We can't sell them finals....but we can sell FOMO. And you don't want to get to the end of your career and say 'Probably should have signed with Carlton when they were chasing me'.

Those moments don't come along very often. Neither does an organised and happy Carlton. Best to strike while the iron is hot.


Astute Doc

Carlton is on the up.
Its an attractive club.

Club first for me.
Our brand was badly tarnished from 2002.
Now we are a new club, with heaps of kids.
New coach. Players very happy.
Winning games.

One or 2 stars are not going to win us a flag in 2020 or 2021.
If they do. Yippitee.

FOMO

Its happening
Pressure on spots in 2020
Everyone player has to step up or else

Huge preseason with the one and only Andrew Russell.
Jack is a player manager's dream. Stars play longer under him
He's as Carlton too.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:33 am 
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Bruce Doull
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tommi wrote:
I like Florent....

moves very well...!


kindest regards tommi

Ollie would look very good in Navy Blue :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:30 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Happy at last that the football department is singing from the same book and in the drivers seat. Bring it on 2020!


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:45 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2434
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
FWIW, I think it's important we win some games next year to get the winning feeling back, get the supporters back and make the club look better in the eyes of a potential trade or FA.
If Eddie helps us do that, he is worth getting at a low pick. Talking about a fourth rounder at best. Adelaide is rooted. They want to clean out the entire joint and start again. Eddie isn't on that horizon. They won't delist him because he's worth something so they are playing the game. They will let him go if they can get a half decent deal.
The other thing is the publicity the club gets from such a trade. The sponsors who have stuck with us in the lean years have been hanging to get their logos on the TV. Eddie brings that. It makes us more attractive to sponsors so getting them through the door is an important part of the club's image and exposure.
If he turns out to be a two year player when we are in the eight, so much better but if we just get one good year out of him, it will be worth it.

We lost four games by less than a goal. Put Eddie in this team and we win all those games because he does that stuff. 11 wins would have been pretty nice this year.

Le Bois is never going to make it or he would be showing something.
Gibbons is a mid fielder that BB played in the forward pocket. Teague released him into the middle much more and he will be even better next year.
Owie is an unknown.

Nothing wrong with Eddie up there at Harry's feet that I can see.


Stop making sense. Agree with all the above. We can get Betts till we find another, or develop one.

Gibbons shows stuff all the great mids show. He's a very good midfielder with a great engine: one of the best at the club.
Its such a waste having his engine purring in the FP going to waste.

He has a bit of mongrel too.

I just wonder what happens if Betts comes cheap with Crows blessing and then we have Papley for a first rounder instead of the 2 1sts with 2 seconds coming back, Butler decides Princes Park will be a great home, and Gray comes for free too. Talk about choice. I don't think Butler would have toured the facilities if there wasn't an offer. Then there's Martin who we may get at the right price too.

Reminds me of the model Ratts was building then the Tigers adopted to win a flag with Setanta (McKay) and his little helpers Betts Garlett Walker Yarran (Betts Papley Butler Martin).

We will fill holes this trade season....and they're the prospects we know of till the Grand Final is played.

Looking at how many players are earmarked as targets we know of, I'd put money on SOS having already held discussions with player managers from top 8 teams, who may be attracted to Princes Park. We have Players, Picks to play with, and more FA's to target next year.

Its going to be a Bonanza for Carlton this October.


This is what concerns me. It seems this is the only model Teague knows and it didn't work for us then and most likely won't work for us now. The Tigers have evolved this model for a reason and that's why they brought in Lynch and are now favourites. Plus they have fast running mids that can deliver and pressure the ball carrier. Strong successful teams are built from defence and our midfield is currently our Achilles' heel in this process.


You have a short memory, and you are making up stuff.

Do you remember the midfield brigade at Carlton at the time touted as the best in the business with Judd Stevens Carrazzo and Murphy? Then after the game against Essendrug on their steroid rage we jard a shoulder injury to Carrazzo, and a multiple of injuries to Murphy etc...well it derailed us....the there was the ganging up on Judd when....the season was full of promise. Nothing to do with the almighty Setanta's helpers failure: they were our weapon. I repeat Betts, Garlett, Walker....all kicking multiple goals and talk of the town. This strategy has been mentioned again during Richmond's premiership year and since.

You pitch your post as if they are fact when they are not. Your argument, for argument sake, with your made up points is baseless.

How do you know Teague has only one game plan? Sorry mate, you are out of order and obviously a Teague hater. This isn't gong to be rational discussion.

Remember Teague didnt sack Bolton. Get over it.

Most likely wont work? What? and why not? You are going to make something up now.

The Tigers bought in Lynch because they could get him. Period. Nothing to do with failing game plan. Reiwoldt is not a spring chicken, he's 31yo. Lynch is 26yo. Do you wonder why they really got Lynch other than he wanted to go to a team who was likely to win flags? Succession plan.

Tigers have been flag favourites for the last 2 years, Last year without Lynch. Where do you get off?

You suggest midfield is our achilles heel, then you suggesting our problem is the Teague's only game plan ala Rattens Setanta's helpers? We are after mids. Watch this space till after the GF. You will be surprised their is a plan SOS has to fill gaps. Its the plan they have been transparent with all along.

Incase you haven't noticed, our defence is set, and we have depth there. Our forward pillars are set in stone. We have the best Clearance player and contested bull in the competition with able support......its not as bad as you make out. We are young, have 3 holes, and we have this and next trade season to fill them. I can see them being ffilled this season with the exception of the ruck, because TDK is a couple of years away from ready: probably when we are giving it a tilt for the GF.

I want to talk about Blue skies and what we are doing right, because the only negative noises I'm hearing about Carlton and SOS in you and keogh.

You're welcome to get on the Teague Train. Its not too late

Toot-Toot 20-20.


What are you waffling on about now.

The only fact you need to understand about the Judd, Betts & co era is this - we didn't win a flag or even make top 4 = failed. It's pretty simple.

Richmond have attracted/obtained/hunted another key tall in Lynch to keep them successful and have evolved their game plan accordingly. Any other information about age, succession plans etc is just waffle, unless you work for the club and know different.
As for flag favourites last year, they were the reigning premiers FFS. Of course they were flag favourites. And this year it wasn't until the back half of the year and more importantly the last 4 weeks that they were mooted as flag favourites again. Including by myself.

As for Bolts, when are you lot going to understand that me questioning Teague's ability is in isolation to him and him only. Bolts has gone, no longer at the club and has nothing to do with us going forward. It's not that hard and to be frank, I'm getting sick of having to spell it out every time. Just because I'm not drinking the Kool Aid doesn't mean I'm a hater. I'm just being reserved until I see Teague do something that impresses me and says, yes this bloke can take us to a premiership. And none of us will know that until next season.

And if you feel that trading in a 33yo player (we will not get him for nothing and I doubt even a 5th rounder as he is required by the club that we screwed on the Gibbs deal) and trading away multiple 1st round picks is how we are going to win our next premiership and stay successful. Good for you, that's your opinion.
I am not a romantic and I am longer running on emotion when it comes to how our club moves forward and all the wild trade possibilities that could be. It's been a tough 3 years and finally there is light at the end of the tunnel and I don't think the club should be throwing all cards on the table yet (i.e. what the cheats have done). I'm more analytical these days and I have a different opinion and will not change it unless I see otherwise. And this does not mean I'm any less positive about the club.

So if you think my opinion is negative because it differs to yours, then that's a you thing and only you can fix that. I look forward to seeing what mids we can attract and I just hope to god we don't sell the farm to do it. Because it is quite possible we will push too hard too early for instant results, over having patience for a little more organic growth in the playing list. And that is my opinion.


TBH, I have a more positive view about Betts and I’m more optimistic about Teague.
However, I think this (remaining reserved about Teague atm) is a perfectly reasonable position.
Picking a head coach is one of the toughest jobs to get right - even the super coaches don’t always succeed in all conditions at different clubs or even at the same club at different times.
Teague has done an amazing job, no doubt.
BUT, as others have pointed out, he has picked some low hanging fruit (e.g. Murphy and Ed into the middle) and probably benefited from a change in tone.
The question remains about how he goes when he has to build a more robust game plan and needs the players to execute plans a bit more than just play free. And also, once other coaches start to work us out a bit more.
IMO, one of the strengths he displayed this year was responding tactically on game day which also showed good planning as well as smarts.
So, I’m positive and think he will be great.
But we won’t know for sure for a while. (Even Bolton got a bounce in his first year...)


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:17 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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carntheblues wrote:
Happy at last that the football department is singing from the same book and in the drivers seat. Bring it on 2020!


I like that...................say's it all.Just got a gut feelin' they know what there doin'.

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