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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:13 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
ScottSaunders2 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
IMHO, he needs to harden the @#$%&! up and so do our players.
When the players complain about getting a serve off the coach and he apologises, there's a soft underbelly existing.
He drives the standards. He is in control of his own personal actions. Not the players or assistant coaches.
He sets the program, the expectations, the methodology and minimum requirements. If he sets the direction with authority and he fails, full credit to him for having the guts to give it his best.
When he allows the players and others to set the agenda, he's doing us and himself no favours.

The difference in skill and ability between us and the top sides is minimal. It's our approach that is piss poor. People use buzz words like selflessness and they're sometimes scoffed at in the football community but nothing is more apt.
Our players wouldn't have a clue about selflessness on the football field. Whilst our captain prefers to take 3 opponents on instead of giving it to a team mate, the example is set. Whilst he prefers to kick the ball instead of giving to well placed runners on his outside like he did numerous times on Saturday, the example is set.
Whilst Harry runs at a football wanting the mark instead of blocking his opponent and calling McGovern back with the flight, the example is set.
We have players that want to feather their own nest instead of taking pleasure in seeing their team mates flourish.
Watch Richmond or the Bulldogs. Or Geelong in at their peak. The players celebrated the selflessness. They took pleasure in tackling to allow a ball to spill free for a team mate. They took pleasure in shepherding, or giving the ball off to a team mate in a better position. Why? Because it was celebrated as their key to success. They knew that it would lead to team success and that they would be valued by the team for doing the hard things that really matter.
They play manic football, they chase, tackle, harass and bust a gut to close space. Because it's what is valued and celebrated by them.

We're miles off that. Not because we're not capable but because as I said above. Teague drives the standards. We focus on the outcome instead of the means.
And assistant coach was interviewed at half time and he was asked how we'll turn it around. He said we want to get the ball in our front half and pin it in there. That's not a strategy. That's Teagues pipe dream. That what he talks about when asked about our brand.
But it's the process that is the key. How do you achieve it? How do you bridge the gap between us and the best teams?
It's not about talent now. It's about approach and most importantly, it's about attitude.
Teague has his hands on the wheel. I dont feel sorry for him. I want him to harden the @#$%&! up and set some standards that will make us a tough, uncompromising, competitive team. It's no none elses responsibility. It's his.



Spot on. 100% correct .. especially the reference to cripps and Harry..

Perhaps that's down to trust as well. They take it on to do it all themselves because they don't trust their team mates ...

I especially took note of the mcgovern/Harry and thought that was everything wrong with our club ...

Harry should have called him, let him take the mark and hopefully kick the goal which would have done wonders for McGovern confidence ... instead it lead to McGovern backing off.

Same scenario happened in the game later on and it was a disaster, neither got to the ball ...

Hopefully that comes with some cohesion ... but for mine it summaries where we are at as a club ... too many interested in self interest and contract dollars as opposed to doing what is better for the team .. why we won't compete at the pointy end until we rectify it.

We are just carrying too many passengers as well but I'm not convinced that if we had a full list that our passengers wouldnt be in the side anyway... thats on team selection.

We have a long way to go in my opinion and I don't think it's the players as such, but rather all aspects of the club that need to be considered.

Honestly me dad is getting on so I drive from cheltenham to Berwick, pick him up then drive to the game .. happy to do it.. but start to question why I drive for nearly four hours every game and make that effort... when the players don't appear to make the same commitment. I pay for it as well... abit frustraing.


You are a great man Scotty. :thumbsup:

Keep it up.

Don't let the fair weather ones spoil the occassion with your dad. They wont be around long, but you will.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:17 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Mark McLure's lashing out now:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/car ... 57kjp.html

Lotsa ppl must be fuming

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:22 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
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With both Richmond and Geelong they both had crap years before they won their 3 flags
I can’t see the talent in Carlton where I could see the talent at Richmond and Geelong
Certainly Teague needs to drop players for not showing enough intensity
You simply won’t be successful unless you bring it to the table.

It starts by dropping blokes to the twos
Owies Stocker Ramsay Honey need to come in
Murphy Betts should be told that they will be playing VFL for the rest of the year
They can help the young guys in the VFl

20 years of crap in a period of equalization tells me that there is something deeper wrong with the club
It seems that the club is waiting for the “ guaranteed “ success


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:25 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:07 pm
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AIRCAV wrote:
Sellers sums it up for me.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/car ... 57kjp.html

“Stand for nothing”


I hate the way people are talking about walls maclure they were champions of the club and still bleed blue


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:38 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:52 pm
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Such a shame there have been so many experienced highly rated assistants move clubs over the last couple of years.

Scott Burns (to support Matthew Nicks), Daniel Giansiracusa (assistant of the year to support Rutten), Don Pyke, Stevie J, Blake Caracella (Essendon*), Rhyce Shaw (gone to GCS), Adam Yze (long term Hawthorn to Melbourne), Matthew Boyd (to Freo to work with Longmuir), John Blakey (Sydney to North), heck even Mark Williams and Alan Richardson (both gone to support Goodwin).

And we have not landed a single one! In fact I don't even remember us being in the conversation for any of them.

We somehow thought our merryband will lead us to success whilst everyone else moved around us trying to get more and more competitive? Look at how Melbourne, Essendon*, Adelaide and Freo have gone about getting good heads around their rookie coaches (well not Goodwin but under pressure).

Meanwhile we continued to sit idle throughout. This is a disgrace and borderline sackable for Brad Lloyd.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:50 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Genuinely think they are banking on Clarkson and not wanting to lock in any new assistants who might get 'assessed' into deals over a year or 2.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:48 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 1890
The media scavengers are all over this club now

Good

There has been way too much optimism by both club and supporters (again)

Not enough reality

The Bolton era was a disaster

There was never a point where I truly felt we were heading in the right direction

The overly defensive game tactics, confused messaging, imbalanced use of young players, poor senior core, reliance on ex GWS players, recruitment of injury prone players, acceptance of losing due to rebuild mantra, poor young player development etc

Don’t think Teague inherited much and the club in its infinite wisdom may pull the trigger again. If this occurs it won’t achieve much.

Surely as a minimum we change our off field set up and bring in a quality senior assistant to mentor and guide Teague.

And for goodness sake, seek a Cripp contract signature ASAP. The delay just continually embarrasses the club. If he is not invested, then start planning now for life post Cripps.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:44 am 
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John Nicholls
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bluehammer wrote:
Genuinely think they are banking on Clarkson and not wanting to lock in any new assistants who might get 'assessed' into deals over a year or 2.


Absolutely no way Clarkson comes to us. Not a chance. And why would he?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:52 am 
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Rod Ashman
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robertbb wrote:
Mark McLure's lashing out now:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/car ... 57kjp.html

Lotsa ppl must be fuming


Pity some more people didn’t put their name to the story, as Sellers has made a career out of this.
But he’s on the mark (boom-tish).
Teague’s reluctance to genuinely invest in and trust the kids while trotting out the same old senior players needs to be called out more.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:28 am 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 865
Nick wrote:
Such a shame there have been so many experienced highly rated assistants move clubs over the last couple of years.

Scott Burns (to support Matthew Nicks), Daniel Giansiracusa (assistant of the year to support Rutten), Don Pyke, Stevie J, Blake Caracella (Essendon**), Rhyce Shaw (gone to GCS), Adam Yze (long term Hawthorn to Melbourne), Matthew Boyd (to Freo to work with Longmuir), John Blakey (Sydney to North), heck even Mark Williams and Alan Richardson (both gone to support Goodwin).

And we have not landed a single one! In fact I don't even remember us being in the conversation for any of them.

We somehow thought our merryband will lead us to success whilst everyone else moved around us trying to get more and more competitive? Look at how Melbourne, Essendon**, Adelaide and Freo have gone about getting good heads around their rookie coaches (well not Goodwin but under pressure).

Meanwhile we continued to sit idle throughout. This is a disgrace and borderline sackable for Brad Lloyd.

It is a very good point. What changes did we actually make following the 2020 season to our assistant and development coaches? Maybe one or two very minor tweaks around the edges but we didn’t bring in any fresh perspectives. It’s not as if we were wildly successful last year so didn’t want to change a winning formula. As you referenced, other clubs have pulled various levers with the aim of improving their coaching panel and we sat idly by thinking things would just happen for us. A bit representative of how the players are playing - just assuming things will happen because we’ve had high picks or we had a couple of good wins last year or we brought in some mature players.
As BV said, time for the club to harden up


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:55 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Nick wrote:
Such a shame there have been so many experienced highly rated assistants move clubs over the last couple of years.

Scott Burns (to support Matthew Nicks), Daniel Giansiracusa (assistant of the year to support Rutten), Don Pyke, Stevie J, Blake Caracella (Essendon**), Rhyce Shaw (gone to GCS), Adam Yze (long term Hawthorn to Melbourne), Matthew Boyd (to Freo to work with Longmuir), John Blakey (Sydney to North), heck even Mark Williams and Alan Richardson (both gone to support Goodwin).

And we have not landed a single one! In fact I don't even remember us being in the conversation for any of them.

We somehow thought our merryband will lead us to success whilst everyone else moved around us trying to get more and more competitive? Look at how Melbourne, Essendon**, Adelaide and Freo have gone about getting good heads around their rookie coaches (well not Goodwin but under pressure).

Meanwhile we continued to sit idle throughout. This is a disgrace and borderline sackable for Brad Lloyd.


Great post nick

Only excuse I can see is we did invest on a lot of development and welfare staff end of 2019 only to cut half off due to coved. But then again so did all those teams you mentioned probably not as deep as us

It's a brutal game and from where we are coming from probably not ruthless enough except when it comes the axing coaches.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:48 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:54 pm
Posts: 415
Do the players respect Teague as a coach or do they see him as a bloody good bloke who happens to coach them ?Players being gifted games says to me they see him more as a bloody good bloke . I may be wrong and hope that I am.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:20 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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The attitude of our players reflect that of Teague. Nice, calm, measured, apologetic, apathetic.

Where is the fire, the passion, the anger, the frustration?

For him to try and spin positives out of Saturday is a disgrace. Spouting useless stats like i50s and "chains"

The whole club needs a rocket up the ass and Teague seems incapable of this

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:24 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2434
This scrutiny is great; I'm loving it.
This cannot be escaping the inner sanctum.
The biggest things that I think happened at Geelong and Richmond was that the players committed to make a change and led the way. Geelong had 'that' chat with Gary Jnr. Cotchin famously reinvented the way he played, and Riewoldt turned himself into a selfless player.
Before Geelong became a powerhouse, they didn't have many stars. Miraculously, they started playing hard, uncompromising, team footy and PRESTO - the suddenly had 10 All Australians!
Richmond is still a team of ok players with a v small core of stars (2-3 of which were never considered stars before they started winning.)
If we play hard, team footy, I think we'd be amazed at how good our list becomes!

I do agree that Teague needs to harden up. But there is a balance. Beveridge, Rossy Lyon all talk tough to the public and act brutally at the selection table. But they also are deeply supportive of their players. Clarkson strikes me as a hard-arse all the time, albeit a smart one. Buckley talks great but is probably too iron-willed and not maleable when it comes to different players (as he was as a captain). Hardwick was that too but has softened in some ways (but not in others).

I am deeply sceptical of the Clarkson to Carlton talk. He is undoubtedly a great coach, but what worked at one club, at a particular time, may not work for another club at a different time. e.g. Pagan, Malthouse. And I'm similarly not convinced about Ross Lyon. But, hey, I've been wrong on most of our coaching appointments so far so what do i know!

But, FWIW, I think the first move should be to upgrade our assistant coaches and bring in a hard, wise hand - like a Neil Balme, Mark Williams, Don Pyke type. But there are not many who can play this role well. It is not Walls, it is not Neil Craig. Not sure who it is.
And I think we could do worse than getting Diesel and Saverio back into the fold.
It strikes me that Dean cox would be a good target, and maybe Craig Starcevitch? Perhaps Buckley might be interested next year (although I think he would probably prefer a year off in the media..).


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:35 pm 
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Bert Deacon
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I have been a member at Carlton (on and off) since 1965 - including the last 20 years straight - and I have a long memory.

If Balme or Clarkson are ever employed by us, I'm out.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:57 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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robertbb wrote:
Mark McLure's lashing out now:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/car ... 57kjp.html

Lotsa ppl must be fuming


It’s all fine for Sellers to say “play the kids” but I wonder how closely he follows our VFL team. Would he have any real sense of how they are performing on the track and in games? Kids have to earn selection too.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:37 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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Pat's Fitztrick wrote:
I have been a member at Carlton (on and off) since 1965 - including the last 20 years straight - and I have a long memory.

If Balme or Clarkson are ever employed by us, I'm out.


And I am with you, Clarkson I will never forgive

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:49 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Sellers says a lot of things but divide them by about half and divide them again by another half and you probably get closer to what actually is the position.

He is passionate but


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:53 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17517
aboynamedsue wrote:
robertbb wrote:
Mark McLure's lashing out now:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/car ... 57kjp.html

Lotsa ppl must be fuming


It’s all fine for Sellers to say “play the kids” but I wonder how closely he follows our VFL team. Would he have any real sense of how they are performing on the track and in games? Kids have to earn selection too.


I admired him as a player but I have zero respect for him as a media identity.
He is a uninformed shock jock IMHO. I watched him previously on AFL360 and he bumbles his way through his rants. Usually looking at David King for affirmation. Fortunately for him, King is too polite to expose him for his ineptitude.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Macfart wrote:
Pat's Fitztrick wrote:
I have been a member at Carlton (on and off) since 1965 - including the last 20 years straight - and I have a long memory.

If Balme or Clarkson are ever employed by us, I'm out.


And I am with you, Clarkson I will never forgive


Yep, me too.
He's a filthy scumbag and always will be

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