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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:17 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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We’re getting killed in the centre clearances - Pittonet is unable to get any taps to our advantage and our midfield are not or cannot read the opposing ruckman.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:37 am 
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Robert Walls

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AGRO wrote:
We’re getting killed in the centre clearances - Pittonet is unable to get any taps to our advantage and our midfield are not or cannot read the opposing ruckman.


And...even when its a 50/50, we're second to the ball OR if by the grace of God we're first to the ball, we have no back up to dish it off to; we get tackled and away they go!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:57 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Lace Out wrote:
How are we 7 years into the rebuild?

We stripped the club back at the end of 2016, so ground zero was 2016.

This is the start of our 6th year, it's well known it takes 5-7 years on average, but we cut deeper than average.

We are still a couple of years away.

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To play finals?

or to be a Top 4 team?

Playing in a Prelim?

We have had all these first round picks over the years....over a dozen of them

plus imported 11 developed players: Plowman, McGovern, Kennedy, Newnes, Saad, Martin, Williams, Fogarty, Betts, McDonald, Pittonet

to add to:

5 bonafide AFL players on our list: Cripps, Docherty, Murphy, Jones and Levi

nah, even the club thought Finals for last year was about right, our 5th in the rebuild.

6th year, 7th year ... no excuses.

Teague needs to move hearts and minds and generate some determination to win at all costs; the reason they have been selected on our list.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:07 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Blue Vain wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Effes wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03/27/how-can-carlton-solve-the-patrick-cripps-problem/

Justin Leppitsch believes Carlton’s game plan from the first two rounds of the season isn’t helping Patrick Cripps as he aims to return to form following a sub-par 2020 campaign.



Agree with Leppitsch - we are too open at the moment and we don't spread very well either. If we play the game a little bit tighter as Cripps, Ed, Williams, Setterfield and Walsh are good contested players.. Cripps and Williams are excellent in the clearance. I understand Teague wants to entertain the fans... but flower sakes man clean up that game plan. Didnt take us to the finals last year and by the looks of it won't take us to the finals this year. Play the game to our lists strengths... yes we have a good forward line only when Harry, Charlie and Jack are in the team and firing then I would say play at break neck speed and get it forward. If all three are not playing then play it tighter....


Correct. Teague has idealistic views on how the game should be played but your strategy should always be based around the capability of your personnel.
It's great to stretch the ground to create opportunities for your forwards but the consequences of stretching the ground are you are also creating space for your opponents when you turn the ball over. Our forward line cant win enough one on one contests to make it viable. I know posters are saying Harry did his job because he kicked 4 goals. But consider Darcy Moore had 18 intercepts for the game and what that means to our defensive game.
So 18 times we had the ball and were in an offensive transition, Collingwood got the ball back through his opponent. i'm not saying it's Harrys fault but you cant play such an offensive game style when they are the outcomes you're producing. Add an underprepared Levi and it makes the equation far worse.

I listened to Leppitsch quoting stats yesterday and the most alarming hasn't been mentioned here. We are -11 goals, 6 points as a consequence of midfield turnovers from 2 games. Ingest that. We are giving up 6 goals per game more to the opposition as a consequence of midfield turnover. So we're stretching the ground to suit an attacking game style. And as a consequence our forwards/mids aren't getting back to assist the defence. We're not bringing to ball out of defence in a controlled manner that allows our defenders to set up behind the play and when we turn it over, our mids and forwards are in an offensive position which results in the opposition streaming forward, resulting in our defenders often trying the defend the ball coming in with zero pressure. And trying to defend 6 forwards assisted by 2,3 or 4 midfielders.
So posters can bag Plowman, Jones, Docherty etc but our game style is crucifying them.
Consider Collingwood had 5 marks inside 50 in round 1. They had 13 on Thursday night.

Our game style currently allows our forwards to bludge, takes away the strengths of our midfielders and smashes our defenders.
We won the centre square stoppages Thursday night, had 11 more inside 50's yet we were never really in the game after half time. We need to reduce space up the ground, not create it. Then if we get space out the back, rely on Fisher, Cuningham and co to use the pace to use it. When did you last see a Carlton goal out the back of a reasonably vacant forward 50? Then look at how often it happens to us.
Also, select the players that fill the role required. McDonald got up the ground against Richmond and took marks/applied pressure to prevent the turnover. Then he doesn't get a game. :? Who did that when he was out of the team? no one.
Fisher will be a high quality small forward but small forwards are not all the same. Fisher is a ground ball/stoppage specialist. He's not a crumber. That's Eddies speciality. It's pointless playing 3 or 4 small forwards if they all have the same skillset and rely on the same opportunities. Cover your bases and create additional problems for the opposition. The game isn't just about how we play the game. It's also about making it difficult for your opponent.

And lastly on that point. Ed should have gone to Adams from the first bounce. In the pre match thread I posted "Taylor Adams is their grunt and tough ball winner. I'd actually get Ed to body him up at the stoppages."
If a nuffy like me can see his value, what are our coaches doing? After half time was way too late.
Personally, I think they're caught with giving Williams midfield time as promised and as a consequence Ed is playing roles that don't suit him or the team. @#$%&! that. Do what creates wins. Play a game style that creates wins. Push Williams to the wing or half forward and bring him into the midfield as first rotation. Don't be so pig headed and start to do what suits our personnel and skillset.

If you cant do that, step aside and let us bring in someone with the strategic awareness to give our players a chance to succeed.


Pretty much on the money.

Lets also add that defenders need to tighten up and stop standing 3-5 metre distance from them, then playing chasey when they have the ball coming in.

Plus a sense of urgency please, from the first bounce, till the last, manic pressure on the man and the ball instead of the corralling.

The game is leaning more to 1 on 1 contests, so contest 1 on 1, then win it, then find the space to run away; not before you win the ball.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:24 am 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:54 pm
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I remember watching an interview with old Carlton player, can’t recall who it was but he said when Jezza was coach they were too afraid to loose because of what training would be like the next week. Doubt that happens now . Can’t upset the players , we have to give them cuddles instead. A few post game honest assessments wouldn’t hurt.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:56 pm 
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formerly Yazzamatazz
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bondiblue wrote:
Lace Out wrote:
How are we 7 years into the rebuild?

We stripped the club back at the end of 2016, so ground zero was 2016.

This is the start of our 6th year, it's well known it takes 5-7 years on average, but we cut deeper than average.

We are still a couple of years away.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


To play finals?

or to be a Top 4 team?

Playing in a Prelim?

We have had all these first round picks over the years....over a dozen of them

plus imported 11 developed players: Plowman, McGovern, Kennedy, Newnes, Saad, Martin, Williams, Fogarty, Betts, McDonald, Pittonet

to add to:

5 bonafide AFL players on our list: Cripps, Docherty, Murphy, Jones and Levi

nah, even the club thought Finals for last year was about right, our 5th in the rebuild.

6th year, 7th year ... no excuses.

Teague needs to move hearts and minds and generate some determination to win at all costs; the reason they have been selected on our list.
Fair question. To win on a regular basis and be a very good team, finals included.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:18 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
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Lace Out wrote:
How are we 7 years into the rebuild?

We stripped the club back at the end of 2016, so ground zero was 2016.

This is the start of our 6th year, it's well known it takes 5-7 years on average, but we cut deeper than average.

We are still a couple of years away.

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In my view the rebuild started when Malthouse was sacked ie mid 2015

This is the 7th year of the rebuild

You could argue the case that we have been rebuilding since 2003 as we have not got anywhere near a premiership


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:59 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3448
This is not a pro-Bolton post but it tells you about our club

It was widely known that the senior players basically got Bolton sacked (yes Bolton played a significant part in his own sacking) by pretty much waving the white flag against NM, GWS and Ess (if memory serves me correctly)

Sooooo...the players aren't playing for the jumper and personal pride...they are making a statement

Then...Teague gives them all cuddles and tucks them into bed so the players all start this bs 'Teague Train' nonsense

Teague is appointed by a board who themselves are on "training wheels" because they got spooked at the media coverage following Judd's comments and appointed Teague with no visible process

Moral of the story...we are the antithesis of a professionally run sporting organisation

Teague's man-management is as conditional as some of the attitudes of his players on the field...when it suits Teague, he's hard arsed with Kennedy, Stocker, Cunningham, Sivagni (in 2019), but when it doesn't suit him, he allows some players to serve us with insipid displays week after week after flowering week

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:43 pm 
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formerly Josh Kaplan

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My fear is the job is too big for Teague and our current coaching staff to turn this around. I don’t believe they have the smarts to restructure our 2017 era game plan nor the courage to make the hard decisions on our conditional senior players


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:48 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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JK wrote:
My fear is the job is too big for Teague and our current coaching staff to turn this around. I don’t believe they have the smarts to restructure our 2017 era game plan nor the courage to make the hard decisions on our conditional senior players


Now you're freakin' me out JK. Stop it.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:12 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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JK wrote:
My fear is the job is too big for Teague and our current coaching staff to turn this around. I don’t believe they have the smarts to restructure our 2017 era game plan nor the courage to make the hard decisions on our conditional senior players
It has been to big for Pagan Ratten Malthouse Bolton of course it will be to big for Teague.

They need to sack the shrink and bring in a team of new ones.

It is not structure game plan or list. The whole place have adopted the mentality that losing doesn't matter





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:38 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Sydney Blue wrote:
JK wrote:
My fear is the job is too big for Teague and our current coaching staff to turn this around. I don’t believe they have the smarts to restructure our 2017 era game plan nor the courage to make the hard decisions on our conditional senior players
It has been to big for Pagan Ratten Malthouse Bolton of course it will be to big for Teague.

They need to sack the shrink and bring in a team of new ones.

It is not structure game plan or list. The whole place have adopted the mentality that losing doesn't matter

:thumbsup:



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:47 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blue Vain wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Effes wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03/27/how-can-carlton-solve-the-patrick-cripps-problem/

Justin Leppitsch believes Carlton’s game plan from the first two rounds of the season isn’t helping Patrick Cripps as he aims to return to form following a sub-par 2020 campaign.



Agree with Leppitsch - we are too open at the moment and we don't spread very well either. If we play the game a little bit tighter as Cripps, Ed, Williams, Setterfield and Walsh are good contested players.. Cripps and Williams are excellent in the clearance. I understand Teague wants to entertain the fans... but flower sakes man clean up that game plan. Didnt take us to the finals last year and by the looks of it won't take us to the finals this year. Play the game to our lists strengths... yes we have a good forward line only when Harry, Charlie and Jack are in the team and firing then I would say play at break neck speed and get it forward. If all three are not playing then play it tighter....


Correct. Teague has idealistic views on how the game should be played but your strategy should always be based around the capability of your personnel.
It's great to stretch the ground to create opportunities for your forwards but the consequences of stretching the ground are you are also creating space for your opponents when you turn the ball over. Our forward line cant win enough one on one contests to make it viable. I know posters are saying Harry did his job because he kicked 4 goals. But consider Darcy Moore had 18 intercepts for the game and what that means to our defensive game.
So 18 times we had the ball and were in an offensive transition, Collingwood got the ball back through his opponent. i'm not saying it's Harrys fault but you cant play such an offensive game style when they are the outcomes you're producing. Add an underprepared Levi and it makes the equation far worse.

I listened to Leppitsch quoting stats yesterday and the most alarming hasn't been mentioned here. We are -11 goals, 6 points as a consequence of midfield turnovers from 2 games. Ingest that. We are giving up 6 goals per game more to the opposition as a consequence of midfield turnover. So we're stretching the ground to suit an attacking game style. And as a consequence our forwards/mids aren't getting back to assist the defence. We're not bringing to ball out of defence in a controlled manner that allows our defenders to set up behind the play and when we turn it over, our mids and forwards are in an offensive position which results in the opposition streaming forward, resulting in our defenders often trying the defend the ball coming in with zero pressure. And trying to defend 6 forwards assisted by 2,3 or 4 midfielders.
So posters can bag Plowman, Jones, Docherty etc but our game style is crucifying them.
Consider Collingwood had 5 marks inside 50 in round 1. They had 13 on Thursday night.

Our game style currently allows our forwards to bludge, takes away the strengths of our midfielders and smashes our defenders.
We won the centre square stoppages Thursday night, had 11 more inside 50's yet we were never really in the game after half time. We need to reduce space up the ground, not create it. Then if we get space out the back, rely on Fisher, Cuningham and co to use the pace to use it. When did you last see a Carlton goal out the back of a reasonably vacant forward 50? Then look at how often it happens to us.
Also, select the players that fill the role required. McDonald got up the ground against Richmond and took marks/applied pressure to prevent the turnover. Then he doesn't get a game. :? Who did that when he was out of the team? no one.
Fisher will be a high quality small forward but small forwards are not all the same. Fisher is a ground ball/stoppage specialist. He's not a crumber. That's Eddies speciality. It's pointless playing 3 or 4 small forwards if they all have the same skillset and rely on the same opportunities. Cover your bases and create additional problems for the opposition. The game isn't just about how we play the game. It's also about making it difficult for your opponent.

And lastly on that point. Ed should have gone to Adams from the first bounce. In the pre match thread I posted "Taylor Adams is their grunt and tough ball winner. I'd actually get Ed to body him up at the stoppages."
If a nuffy like me can see his value, what are our coaches doing? After half time was way too late.
Personally, I think they're caught with giving Williams midfield time as promised and as a consequence Ed is playing roles that don't suit him or the team. @#$%&! that. Do what creates wins. Play a game style that creates wins. Push Williams to the wing or half forward and bring him into the midfield as first rotation. Don't be so pig headed and start to do what suits our personnel and skillset.

If you cant do that, step aside and let us bring in someone with the strategic awareness to give our players a chance to succeed.


Yet they had all summer to work on things - as you say, making the most of what is available on the list.

What were they doing all summer?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:59 pm 
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John James
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Waterman wrote:
I remember watching an interview with old Carlton player, can’t recall who it was but he said when Jezza was coach they were too afraid to loose because of what training would be like the next week. Doubt that happens now . Can’t upset the players , we have to give them cuddles instead. A few post game honest assessments wouldn’t hurt.


Apparently that conversation happened on Friday. We will see if that alleged conversation bears any fruit.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:58 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Beijing Blue wrote:
Waterman wrote:
I remember watching an interview with old Carlton player, can’t recall who it was but he said when Jezza was coach they were too afraid to loose because of what training would be like the next week. Doubt that happens now . Can’t upset the players , we have to give them cuddles instead. A few post game honest assessments wouldn’t hurt.


Apparently that conversation happened on Friday. We will see if that alleged conversation bears any fruit.
Good!... And hope so!

Go Blues!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:51 pm 
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Laurie Kerr

Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:03 pm
Posts: 120
Hi all.
Been a blues supporter for 45 years, and my current feelings of the team is disappointment, and even embarresment.

I really feel repleacing teague as coach is grasping at straws. We had an angry, win at all cost, ex multi premiership coach in mick malthouse. Getting alistair clarkson would be no different to then i feel. Why did MM really leave anyway? I wouldn't be suprised if he was being too restricted by the board, not being able to drop under performers from the team because of the "free ride thing" (qouta's and man crushes by the board?). Maybee along that line of thinking its the board creating and dictatingthis pox culture.
Yes i thing teague is not coaching well. I wonder if he is being asked to coach this way or if its his own choice. At least he needs to employ some form of "punishments" for shit performances.. not constant reasurances and being told "not to worry, will do better next week". Thats garbage and been shown to be very empty meaningless words.
Which is also why docherty is a joke for a captain. Cripps should be captain ALONE. Cripps is a winner and a natural leader. Docherty is a loser and soft.
We need Mike Iceberg as CEO "you only get one chance!!!" :)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:33 am 
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Rod Ashman
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#gettuchel

He transformed the London Blues.

Jokes aside, an experienced, proven coach with plenty still to prove replaced basically an untried but popular coach and turned the season around.
Not saying that’s where we are at yet (though we may well be), but the parallels are close.
Lampard, like Teague, had his well documented favourite players at Chelsea who got games ahead of others for reasons many fans could not fathom.
And had a promising start before it all fell in a hole when the job was clearly beyond him.

Time to show some balls on the park and at selection.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:20 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Not a lot of senior support there...

John
BARKER
ASSISTANT COACH (STOPPAGES)

Cameron
BRUCE
ASSISTANT COACH (FORWARDS)

Dale
AMOS
ASSISTANT COACH (DEFENCE)

Brent
STANTON
ASSISTANT COACH (MIDFIELD AND TRANSITION)

Luke
POWER
HEAD OF DEVELOPMENT

Daniel
O'KEEFE
DEVELOPMENT COACH (MIDFIELD)

Torin
BAKER
DEVELOPMENT COACH

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:44 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:48 pm
Posts: 4157
Location: Perth
I wonder if a lot of the limited soft cap is tied up with Andrew Russell?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:52 am 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 865
CK95 wrote:
Not a lot of senior support there...

John
BARKER
ASSISTANT COACH (STOPPAGES)

Cameron
BRUCE
ASSISTANT COACH (FORWARDS)

Dale
AMOS
ASSISTANT COACH (DEFENCE)

Brent
STANTON
ASSISTANT COACH (MIDFIELD AND TRANSITION)

Luke
POWER
HEAD OF DEVELOPMENT

Daniel
O'KEEFE
DEVELOPMENT COACH (MIDFIELD)

Torin
BAKER
DEVELOPMENT COACH

We missed a trick in the off season by not introducing some fresh perspectives or a senior mentor into the coaching group.
Not sure what the club saw in this group last year to think that they’ve got the required skill set and expertise. You only need to look at North Melbourne to see what can happen when an inexperienced senior coach isn’t actually supported by some stronger senior assistant coaches.
The club will blame the cut in the soft cap for not being able to pay out assistants but why are these assistants we’ve got being signed to long term deals? It’s not as if we’ve been wildly successful recently
But hey at least we cleared our debt and have a record membership so who really cares about winning games anyway


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