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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:18 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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CK95 wrote:
Yep, & you also need return on your investment with the forward press. Very labour intensive & the end result is we win the 3rd qtr by 10 points or something, leaving us out of puff for the 4th.


Really important point.

Its more a game of attrition than it has ever been since the 4 interchange were introduced.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:14 pm 
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John Nicholls
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grrofunger wrote:
We’ve had our fair share of poor coaches over the years.

I think this one takes the cake.


Well, I delayed watching the post-match presser. Finally brought myself to do so just now and.... he actually did it. He said he "believes in the playing group".

:cry:

What exactly does he @#$%&! believe in? If it's the players' fitness, skill and mental toughness... and if that belief is not misplaced, then the ONLY problem is the coaching and the culture.

And if that belief IS misplaced, then he doesn't have what it takes to identify, nurture, grow and get the best out of the talent he has at his disposal.

All roads lead to the coach. Over to you Teaguey.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:30 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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daggs001 wrote:
How many premiership winning teams over the last decade have had co captains?
How many grand finalists have had co captains? Not many if any at all.
Because it simply doesn't work. Co captains are what you go to when your not sure of yourself. We play like we are not sure of ourselves.

Teague should do himself a favour. Pick one captain and hope that guy stands in the front of the huddle buying into his message (not hanging off the back like Crippa every time) and leading by example. it is of concern that our co captains are both so far out of form.
He could also build some bloody trust within the group by picking guys on merit. Oscar almost changed the game last week in our favour. Levi was well short of a run.
So why not pick a guy who obviously busted a gut in the pre season to get on the list and who took his opportunity last week? Why go with a guy who is clearly in need of a run or three in the reserves? It has been hinted at by some including our former recruiting manager that Teague is gifting games to favorite's. That cannot be helping his cause within the playing group. He should grow some balls and make the decisions that need to be made if he wants to remain as an afl coach.


Yep ! completely agree.Said day one the co captain thing is weak as piss.Make a decision even if its the wrong one.Dont sit on the fence and have a bob each way...........Its neither your elbow nor your arsehole.

So Carlton these days..............like Marco LoGo promising the CEO to Simon Lethlean and then buckling to Kate Jenkins ( who has since departed )...................Kate didn't like the fact that Lethlean patted the office girl on the arse or some wanky politically correct bullshit.............very meek and timid these days the Blues.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:58 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Mickstar wrote:
daggs001 wrote:
How many premiership winning teams over the last decade have had co captains?
How many grand finalists have had co captains? Not many if any at all.
Because it simply doesn't work. Co captains are what you go to when your not sure of yourself. We play like we are not sure of ourselves.

Teague should do himself a favour. Pick one captain and hope that guy stands in the front of the huddle buying into his message (not hanging off the back like Crippa every time) and leading by example. it is of concern that our co captains are both so far out of form.
He could also build some bloody trust within the group by picking guys on merit. Oscar almost changed the game last week in our favour. Levi was well short of a run.
So why not pick a guy who obviously busted a gut in the pre season to get on the list and who took his opportunity last week? Why go with a guy who is clearly in need of a run or three in the reserves? It has been hinted at by some including our former recruiting manager that Teague is gifting games to favorite's. That cannot be helping his cause within the playing group. He should grow some balls and make the decisions that need to be made if he wants to remain as an afl coach.


Yep ! completely agree.Said day one the co captain thing is weak as piss.Make a decision even if its the wrong one.Dont sit on the fence and have a bob each way...........Its neither your elbow nor your arsehole.

So Carlton these days..............like Marco LoGo promising the CEO to Simon Lethlean and then buckling to Kate Jenkins ( who has since departed )...................Kate didn't like the fact that Lethlean patted the office girl on the arse or some wanky politically correct bullshit.............very meek and timid these days the Blues.


Simon did more than that Mickstar. Made the right decision to avoid Lethlean. No doubt. Not everything made the papers.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:17 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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bondiblue wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
daggs001 wrote:
How many premiership winning teams over the last decade have had co captains?
How many grand finalists have had co captains? Not many if any at all.
Because it simply doesn't work. Co captains are what you go to when your not sure of yourself. We play like we are not sure of ourselves.

Teague should do himself a favour. Pick one captain and hope that guy stands in the front of the huddle buying into his message (not hanging off the back like Crippa every time) and leading by example. it is of concern that our co captains are both so far out of form.
He could also build some bloody trust within the group by picking guys on merit. Oscar almost changed the game last week in our favour. Levi was well short of a run.
So why not pick a guy who obviously busted a gut in the pre season to get on the list and who took his opportunity last week? Why go with a guy who is clearly in need of a run or three in the reserves? It has been hinted at by some including our former recruiting manager that Teague is gifting games to favorite's. That cannot be helping his cause within the playing group. He should grow some balls and make the decisions that need to be made if he wants to remain as an afl coach.


Yeah,i know Bondi,but thats not the point.We had a President that wanted Lethlean .Was overuled by Jenkins and Judd.A real old-time Carlton president would rule by hook or by crook. got there man and Jenkins and Judd would have been told to pull there heads in.Talk about the tail wagging the dog...................George Harris like.He got Marassi to the club no ifs or butts.Barassi was no angel and certainly not an angel with the fairer sex but a WINNER.....................i mean,the journo's make a song and dance but the truth is Joe Public don't give a shit.

Yep ! completely agree.Said day one the co captain thing is weak as piss.Make a decision even if its the wrong one.Dont sit on the fence and have a bob each way...........Its neither your elbow nor your arsehole.

So Carlton these days..............like Marco LoGo promising the CEO to Simon Lethlean and then buckling to Kate Jenkins ( who has since departed )...................Kate didn't like the fact that Lethlean patted the office girl on the arse or some wanky politically correct bullshit.............very meek and timid these days the Blues.


Simon did more than that Mickstar. Made the right decision to avoid Lethlean. No doubt. Not everything made the papers.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:49 am 
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Harry Vallence

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We never seem to find a good balance between attack and defence

In the Ratten era we struggled defensively but had good scoring options

With Bolton, we couldn’t score but okay defensively

Now we are in a situation where it appears that although we have improved our scoring, the lack of team defence is a glaring problem.

In my view, a non negotiable is applying good pressure all over the ground. Makes a huge difference in tight situations and always gives you a chance in finals. At the moment we are a weak tackling team with poor defensive running.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:12 am 
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John James
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WOW wrote:
We never seem to find a good balance between attack and defence

In the Ratten era we struggled defensively but had good scoring options

With Bolton, we couldn’t score but okay defensively

Now we are in a situation where it appears that although we have improved our scoring, the lack of team defence is a glaring problem.

In my view, a non negotiable is applying good pressure all over the ground. Makes a huge difference in tight situations and always gives you a chance in finals. At the moment we are a weak tackling team with poor defensive running.



This. We just do not do that at the required standard.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:58 am 
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Bob Chitty

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WOW wrote:
We never seem to find a good balance between attack and defence

In the Ratten era we struggled defensively but had good scoring options

With Bolton, we couldn’t score but okay defensively

Now we are in a situation where it appears that although we have improved our scoring, the lack of team defence is a glaring problem.

In my view, a non negotiable is applying good pressure all over the ground. Makes a huge difference in tight situations and always gives you a chance in finals. At the moment we are a weak tackling team with poor defensive running.

:clap: :clap:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:58 pm 
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https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03/27/ ... s-problem/

Justin Leppitsch believes Carlton’s game plan from the first two rounds of the season isn’t helping Patrick Cripps as he aims to return to form following a sub-par 2020 campaign.

Leppitsch told SEN's Crunch Time that the Blues are trying to create space and make the ground big when they go forward, which doesn’t allow Cripps to use his assets around the content.

“I think the way Carlton are playing at the moment, they’re making the ground very big offensively… (Cripps) is a real in tight player and Carlton are widening the ground,” Leppistch said.

“Their game planning isn’t suiting a Patrick Cripps style of player at the moment.”

Cripps announced himself as one of the best midfielders in the league in 2019 by finishing third in the Brownlow Medal, but has struggled to recapture that form last year.

Carlton has also largely failed to fire a shot so far, with competitive losses against Richmond and Collingwood in the first two rounds.

Leppitsch is confident that Carlton have all the pieces of the jigsaw, but just need to put it together to help Cripps.

“I think they’ve got enough talent, there’s no doubt. You’ve got to put a game style in that helps your players and at the moment their game style doesn’t help Cripps,” Leppitsch said.

“All the things by making the ground big is not helping them not just in their full ground defence but also the stuff at the ball, its hurting them defensively as well.

“Tidy a few of those game plan things up, make the ground a little smaller and I think that will help Patrick Cripps.”

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:47 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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grrofunger wrote:
We’ve had our fair share of poor coaches over the years.

I think this one takes the cake.


He's got a long way to go to match the bloke who took over a multiple finalist with the remit of taking it to the next level, and instead turned it into a multiple spooner playing boring and depressing footy... But what's a footy forum without a bit of hyperbole :)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:05 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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It's important that we learn from the 21 point loss without over reacting to it. Got 2 winnable games now...get them both & our season is back on track.

Hardwick had his detractors early days, as did Thompson. Even Clarkson did.

Saad has been like a breath of fresh air & he is clearly a quality player, but it's going to take the team a bit of time to familiarize with his inclusion & how much he changes the look & feel of our game. Just like it's going to take them time to get used to no 300 gamer simpson directing the back 6.

The wins will come but I still think this is a development year. I wasn't as bullish as others about finals & I really wouldn't be surprised or shattered if we finish 10th.

I'll be pissed off if we lose to Fremantle though

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:09 pm 
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Effes wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03/27/how-can-carlton-solve-the-patrick-cripps-problem/

Justin Leppitsch believes Carlton’s game plan from the first two rounds of the season isn’t helping Patrick Cripps as he aims to return to form following a sub-par 2020 campaign.



Agree with Leppitsch - we are too open at the moment and we don't spread very well either. If we play the game a little bit tighter as Cripps, Ed, Williams, Setterfield and Walsh are good contested players.. Cripps and Williams are excellent in the clearance. I understand Teague wants to entertain the fans... but flower sakes man clean up that game plan. Didnt take us to the finals last year and by the looks of it won't take us to the finals this year. Play the game to our lists strengths... yes we have a good forward line only when Harry, Charlie and Jack are in the team and firing then I would say play at break neck speed and get it forward. If all three are not playing then play it tighter....


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:59 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Walsh wrote:
Effes wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03/27/how-can-carlton-solve-the-patrick-cripps-problem/

Justin Leppitsch believes Carlton’s game plan from the first two rounds of the season isn’t helping Patrick Cripps as he aims to return to form following a sub-par 2020 campaign.



Agree with Leppitsch - we are too open at the moment and we don't spread very well either. If we play the game a little bit tighter as Cripps, Ed, Williams, Setterfield and Walsh are good contested players.. Cripps and Williams are excellent in the clearance. I understand Teague wants to entertain the fans... but flower sakes man clean up that game plan. Didnt take us to the finals last year and by the looks of it won't take us to the finals this year. Play the game to our lists strengths... yes we have a good forward line only when Harry, Charlie and Jack are in the team and firing then I would say play at break neck speed and get it forward. If all three are not playing then play it tighter....


So, Teague is coaching to entertain the fans...why? Because there's no hope of playing games to win?

Stuff what some supporters think about the look of the game we play. Swans played a suffocating game of rugby like contested footy for last 15 years. Supporters didnt care that Demetriou said in public the Swans are boring, then won the Grand Final the same year.

Quote:
Carlton has also largely failed to fire a shot so far, with competitive losses against Richmond and Collingwood in the first two rounds.
Leppitsch is confident that Carlton have all the pieces of the jigsaw, but just need to put it together to help Cripps.
“I think they’ve got enough talent, there’s no doubt. You’ve got to put a game style in that helps your players and at the moment their game style doesn’t help Cripps,” Leppitsch said.
“All the things by making the ground big is not helping them not just in their full ground defence but also the stuff at the ball, its hurting them defensively as well.


Alarm Bells

I've erased my signature regarding the Teague Train, now I'm swaying to Judd's comment about "training wheels" following Leppittsch comments along wityh others, AND, what Ive seen thus far.

I still believe we have the group to make the Finals, but I think, like Ratten, it may be Teague's ceiling, so I look on with interest week by week to see any consistent improvement, none of this up and down form, and 5 goal leaks, and giving head starts because the players are not switched on, or worse, the coach can't put a plan in place to counter the opposition.

Teague isn't going to stop the core of this list to miss out on Flag 17...he wont be allowed to.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:50 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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GreatEx wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
We’ve had our fair share of poor coaches over the years.

I think this one takes the cake.


He's got a long way to go to match the bloke who took over a multiple finalist with the remit of taking it to the next level, and instead turned it into a multiple spooner playing boring and depressing footy... But what's a footy forum without a bit of hyperbole :)


I’ve erased that old prick from memory.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:58 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Effes wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03/27/how-can-carlton-solve-the-patrick-cripps-problem/

Justin Leppitsch believes Carlton’s game plan from the first two rounds of the season isn’t helping Patrick Cripps as he aims to return to form following a sub-par 2020 campaign.

Leppitsch told SEN's Crunch Time that the Blues are trying to create space and make the ground big when they go forward, which doesn’t allow Cripps to use his assets around the content.

“I think the way Carlton are playing at the moment, they’re making the ground very big offensively… (Cripps) is a real in tight player and Carlton are widening the ground,” Leppistch said.

“Their game planning isn’t suiting a Patrick Cripps style of player at the moment.”

Cripps announced himself as one of the best midfielders in the league in 2019 by finishing third in the Brownlow Medal, but has struggled to recapture that form last year.

Carlton has also largely failed to fire a shot so far, with competitive losses against Richmond and Collingwood in the first two rounds.

Leppitsch is confident that Carlton have all the pieces of the jigsaw, but just need to put it together to help Cripps.

“I think they’ve got enough talent, there’s no doubt. You’ve got to put a game style in that helps your players and at the moment their game style doesn’t help Cripps,” Leppitsch said.

“All the things by making the ground big is not helping them not just in their full ground defence but also the stuff at the ball, its hurting them defensively as well.

“Tidy a few of those game plan things up, make the ground a little smaller and I think that will help Patrick Cripps.”
Leppitsch auditioning is he?


Anyway...
My biggest disappointment is this.

TEAMS should reflect the coach.
When Teague took over I thought..
'great! He wasn't a great talent, but gee he was tough, and busted his guts at every contest'...
I thought...
'that's something we need, talent or not, we don't block, shepherd, scrag, hassle, punch, hurt, CRUSH, GET INTO TEAMS FACES, BE RUTHLESS... .. Etc etc..'

By now, I thought we'd be seeing the TEAM start reflecting some of these traits.. GAME PLAN and SKILL ASIDE!!

We're just not showing anything!!!

To paraphrase a comedy sketch..

I thought they would be tough and ruthless.... instead they're rough and toothless

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:11 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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He is making the huge mistake of wanting to play his supposed best 22 in his mind and playing a lot of players in the wrong position

Setters rotating midfielder not a wingman
Curnow run with player not a wingman
SPS too loose as defender and wingman or high half forward( best game for blues was against the dogs were he played around the midfield )
Oh. And Murphy is not in our best 22 he provides nothing , but Teague won’t have the balls to drop him



Just a. Couple of examples

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:52 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Apart from that,shit he is a wooden lifeless character.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:20 am 
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Harry Vallence

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CK95 wrote:
It's important that we learn from the 21 point loss without over reacting to it. Got 2 winnable games now...get them both & our season is back on track.

Hardwick had his detractors early days, as did Thompson. Even Clarkson did.

Saad has been like a breath of fresh air & he is clearly a quality player, but it's going to take the team a bit of time to familiarize with his inclusion & how much he changes the look & feel of our game. Just like it's going to take them time to get used to no 300 gamer simpson directing the back 6.

The wins will come but I still think this is a development year. I wasn't as bullish as others about finals & I really wouldn't be surprised or shattered if we finish 10th.

I'll be pissed off if we lose to Fremantle though

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Not so sure this year should be another developing year. We are now in 7 years into a major rebuild. We should be making finals by now.

A bigger concern is the lack of player development for early draft picks such as Dow, Cunningham, O’Brien, SPS and Setterfield. Most of them are close to being confirmed as busts which means we could be developing for a lot longer than expected.

Adding to that are long term injuries to Curnow, Marchbank & Doherty. Key players who may never reach the heights that we expected.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:37 am 
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How are we 7 years into the rebuild?

We stripped the club back at the end of 2016, so ground zero was 2016.

This is the start of our 6th year, it's well known it takes 5-7 years on average, but we cut deeper than average.

We are still a couple of years away.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:53 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Walsh wrote:
Effes wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03/27/how-can-carlton-solve-the-patrick-cripps-problem/

Justin Leppitsch believes Carlton’s game plan from the first two rounds of the season isn’t helping Patrick Cripps as he aims to return to form following a sub-par 2020 campaign.



Agree with Leppitsch - we are too open at the moment and we don't spread very well either. If we play the game a little bit tighter as Cripps, Ed, Williams, Setterfield and Walsh are good contested players.. Cripps and Williams are excellent in the clearance. I understand Teague wants to entertain the fans... but flower sakes man clean up that game plan. Didnt take us to the finals last year and by the looks of it won't take us to the finals this year. Play the game to our lists strengths... yes we have a good forward line only when Harry, Charlie and Jack are in the team and firing then I would say play at break neck speed and get it forward. If all three are not playing then play it tighter....


Correct. Teague has idealistic views on how the game should be played but your strategy should always be based around the capability of your personnel.
It's great to stretch the ground to create opportunities for your forwards but the consequences of stretching the ground are you are also creating space for your opponents when you turn the ball over. Our forward line cant win enough one on one contests to make it viable. I know posters are saying Harry did his job because he kicked 4 goals. But consider Darcy Moore had 18 intercepts for the game and what that means to our defensive game.
So 18 times we had the ball and were in an offensive transition, Collingwood got the ball back through his opponent. i'm not saying it's Harrys fault but you cant play such an offensive game style when they are the outcomes you're producing. Add an underprepared Levi and it makes the equation far worse.

I listened to Leppitsch quoting stats yesterday and the most alarming hasn't been mentioned here. We are -11 goals, 6 points as a consequence of midfield turnovers from 2 games. Ingest that. We are giving up 6 goals per game more to the opposition as a consequence of midfield turnover. So we're stretching the ground to suit an attacking game style. And as a consequence our forwards/mids aren't getting back to assist the defence. We're not bringing to ball out of defence in a controlled manner that allows our defenders to set up behind the play and when we turn it over, our mids and forwards are in an offensive position which results in the opposition streaming forward, resulting in our defenders often trying the defend the ball coming in with zero pressure. And trying to defend 6 forwards assisted by 2,3 or 4 midfielders.
So posters can bag Plowman, Jones, Docherty etc but our game style is crucifying them.
Consider Collingwood had 5 marks inside 50 in round 1. They had 13 on Thursday night.

Our game style currently allows our forwards to bludge, takes away the strengths of our midfielders and smashes our defenders.
We won the centre square stoppages Thursday night, had 11 more inside 50's yet we were never really in the game after half time. We need to reduce space up the ground, not create it. Then if we get space out the back, rely on Fisher, Cuningham and co to use the pace to use it. When did you last see a Carlton goal out the back of a reasonably vacant forward 50? Then look at how often it happens to us.
Also, select the players that fill the role required. McDonald got up the ground against Richmond and took marks/applied pressure to prevent the turnover. Then he doesn't get a game. :? Who did that when he was out of the team? no one.
Fisher will be a high quality small forward but small forwards are not all the same. Fisher is a ground ball/stoppage specialist. He's not a crumber. That's Eddies speciality. It's pointless playing 3 or 4 small forwards if they all have the same skillset and rely on the same opportunities. Cover your bases and create additional problems for the opposition. The game isn't just about how we play the game. It's also about making it difficult for your opponent.

And lastly on that point. Ed should have gone to Adams from the first bounce. In the pre match thread I posted "Taylor Adams is their grunt and tough ball winner. I'd actually get Ed to body him up at the stoppages."
If a nuffy like me can see his value, what are our coaches doing? After half time was way too late.
Personally, I think they're caught with giving Williams midfield time as promised and as a consequence Ed is playing roles that don't suit him or the team. @#$%&! that. Do what creates wins. Play a game style that creates wins. Push Williams to the wing or half forward and bring him into the midfield as first rotation. Don't be so pig headed and start to do what suits our personnel and skillset.

If you cant do that, step aside and let us bring in someone with the strategic awareness to give our players a chance to succeed.

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