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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:18 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 20208
Location: North of the border
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Dodo27 wrote:
I truly believe that we are led by a bunch of heartless and greedy business Men who took control of our Club since 2003 and have totally destroyed it.

whilst as business men, they might have had success in turning a profit for the club ( or for themselves?? ), generating millions in revenue from Poker machines and other ventures, On the other hand, they have totally neglected the football side of things.

Those Men have no clue about football!

People ask the same question every week " What is the solution?? "


The Solution is that our entire Board must be stood down, our CEO Sacked and our entire football department should be replaced by people who know something about football.....


We are sick of the lies... the false promises.... the 5 year plan that has already occurred 3 times in 15 years....

Yep


I'd suggest the board have bought millions of dollars into the club. Are you suggesting they're in it to somehow drag money out of the club or to fill their own pockets?
Whilst you're sitting at home in winter watch MAFS or Home and Away, they actually do something productive for the club. They attend board meetings and functions that actually benefit the clubs existence. All the while paying for the privilege. Not getting paid.
Whilst the whingers here sit under their doonas and fire pissy cheap shots all the while contributing @#$%&! all.

Yes we could be better but I give the board full credit. They've set the first ever plan by our club to rebuild the list and they've stuck to the task, in spite of the bed wetters.
It's not the boards fault that some of our early picks haven't come on as much as we'd like. They've set a strategic direction that has supported the rebuild and given the footy department every opportunity to succeed.

What more do you actually want them to do? Spell it out. Don't just spew out meaningless comments like "sack the board". What more would you want from the board and CEO over the past couple of year?

Personally, I give them great credit. I never thought I'd see a Carlton board with the guts to set a strategic plan in place to rebuild the list totally and see it out. They have and I give credit where it's due.
Whether the list manager and coaching staff have provided the framework and personnel, that's yet to be determined IMHO but it's not from lack of resources or support in my eyes.

I understand the frustration and anger but let's not lose our heads and rant and rave without basis or substance.
If Bolton has 5 wins at seasons end and the team are playing with enthusiasm and effort. I'd give him another year.
If not, give someone else an opportunity. IMHO, we have 1 coach who has twice shown an ability to mould a line into a strong cohesive unit. Dale Amos. I'd love to know whether he has the ability to take the next step. Interview him and a number of other candidates but let's not fall into the old Carlton model of going for another messiah.


At the time they embarked on this list rebuild they did so with a Rookie CEO - Rookie President and Rookie Coach ( one who had never played at any level to speak of)
Trust us they said we know what we are doing - It was like put a team of UNI grads in charge of a corporate enterprise and expecting it to thrive - We were hoping for our very on Facebook or Amazon
I have been questioning this rebuild since it began and questioned the need to even announce they were doing it
Clubs on average turn over 8 players a years - We cut harder with no significant senior players to soften the blow
It was and is a dumb decision be it a brave one or a courageous one they have made a mistake
The entire football public has now come to this realisation that some of us new from the start , It is now up to the club to realise the error of their ways

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:22 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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I am not asking for the CEO & the Board to be Sacked!

I am saying that after 15 years, the Issue with this club is with its Management, right from the CEO position down to the Coach...


The issue is not with the Coach nor the players. We have tried so many coaches and it didn't work. We have also tried so many different players and it didn't work.


The Real issue has to be with how this club is managed and run....Changes need to be at the top level, not coach nor player Level!


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:30 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 2450
Dodo27 wrote:
I truly believe that we are led by a bunch of heartless and greedy business Men who took control of our Club since 2003 and have totally destroyed it.

whilst as business men, they might have had success in turning a profit for the club ( or for themselves?? ), generating millions in revenue from Poker machines and other ventures, On the other hand, they have totally neglected the football side of things.

Those Men have no clue about football!

People ask the same question every week " What is the solution?? "


The Solution is that our entire Board must be stood down, our CEO Sacked and our entire football department should be replaced by people who know something about football.....


We are sick of the lies... the false promises.... the 5 year plan that has already occurred 3 times in 15 years....


I think there is a saying for this. "Don't go throwing the baby out with the bath water"


Last edited by carntheblues on Mon May 27, 2019 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:34 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 2450
doofdoof wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Dodo27 wrote:
I truly believe that we are led by a bunch of heartless and greedy business Men who took control of our Club since 2003 and have totally destroyed it.

whilst as business men, they might have had success in turning a profit for the club ( or for themselves?? ), generating millions in revenue from Poker machines and other ventures, On the other hand, they have totally neglected the football side of things.

Those Men have no clue about football!

People ask the same question every week " What is the solution?? "


The Solution is that our entire Board must be stood down, our CEO Sacked and our entire football department should be replaced by people who know something about football.....


We are sick of the lies... the false promises.... the 5 year plan that has already occurred 3 times in 15 years....

Yep


I'd suggest the board have bought millions of dollars into the club. Are you suggesting they're in it to somehow drag money out of the club or to fill their own pockets?
Whilst you're sitting at home in winter watch MAFS or Home and Away, they actually do something productive for the club. They attend board meetings and functions that actually benefit the clubs existence. All the while paying for the privilege. Not getting paid.
Whilst the whingers here sit under their doonas and fire pissy cheap shots all the while contributing @#$%&! all.

Yes we could be better but I give the board full credit. They've set the first ever plan by our club to rebuild the list and they've stuck to the task, in spite of the bed wetters.
It's not the boards fault that some of our early picks haven't come on as much as we'd like. They've set a strategic direction that has supported the rebuild and given the footy department every opportunity to succeed.

What more do you actually want them to do? Spell it out. Don't just spew out meaningless comments like "sack the board". What more would you want from the board and CEO over the past couple of year?

Personally, I give them great credit. I never thought I'd see a Carlton board with the guts to set a strategic plan in place to rebuild the list totally and see it out. They have and I give credit where it's due.
Whether the list manager and coaching staff have provided the framework and personnel, that's yet to be determined IMHO but it's not from lack of resources or support in my eyes.

I understand the frustration and anger but let's not lose our heads and rant and rave without basis or substance.
If Bolton has 5 wins at seasons end and the team are playing with enthusiasm and effort. I'd give him another year.
If not, give someone else an opportunity. IMHO, we have 1 coach who has twice shown an ability to mould a line into a strong cohesive unit. Dale Amos. I'd love to know whether he has the ability to take the next step. Interview him and a number of other candidates but let's not fall into the old Carlton model of going for another messiah.


good post BV...the worst thing we could do now is deviate from the path we're on and look for that messiah that will magically fix all
agree that bolts should be judged on the 22 games this year and if the team hasn't conjured up enough wins then he unfortunately might need to go

I saw some highlights from an old 2007 game the other day and in the forward line we had Betts, Fev, Kennedy, Waite and A Walker...
rather than recognising how good those guys could be together, we blew that talent to pieces with a number of shit short sighted decisions over the following 6-7 years. let's not make the same stupid mistakes again


I concur. Bolts to see out the year and then reassess.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:34 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 1890
Rexy wrote:
buzzaaaah wrote:
After Kreuzer kicked our last goal that put us ?5 pts down, he and Cripps go off the ground for a rotation.
FFS, if there was a more crucial time for them both to be in the centre, I don't know when that would be.
As leader, they should have assessed the situation and stayed on the ground.


1.40 left to go 13 points down ... Plowman to kick out from FB .. players screaming for it down the corridor ... Plowman kicks short to the pocket to Walsh then demands it back ... Plowman kicks straight to StK player ... game over

Plowmans a leader.


For me that summed up everything

It's a timid team playing safe football

Close enough is good enough

Those sideways nothing kicks need to be eradicated from our play

Simply stagnate our ball movement and puts extra pressure on our forwards

Plowman needs to be phased out of the team. Offers little and won't get much better.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:35 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Location: riding shotgun on Agros Karma Train
Dodos are extinct for a reason

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:05 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Dodo27 wrote:
I truly believe that we are led by a bunch of heartless and greedy business Men who took control of our Club since 2003 and have totally destroyed it.

whilst as business men, they might have had success in turning a profit for the club ( or for themselves?? ), generating millions in revenue from Poker machines and other ventures, On the other hand, they have totally neglected the football side of things.

Those Men have no clue about football!

People ask the same question every week " What is the solution?? "


The Solution is that our entire Board must be stood down, our CEO Sacked and our entire football department should be replaced by people who know something about football.....


We are sick of the lies... the false promises.... the 5 year plan that has already occurred 3 times in 15 years....

Yep


I'd suggest the board have bought millions of dollars into the club. Are you suggesting they're in it to somehow drag money out of the club or to fill their own pockets?
Whilst you're sitting at home in winter watch MAFS or Home and Away, they actually do something productive for the club. They attend board meetings and functions that actually benefit the clubs existence. All the while paying for the privilege. Not getting paid.
Whilst the whingers here sit under their doonas and fire pissy cheap shots all the while contributing @#$%&! all.

Yes we could be better but I give the board full credit. They've set the first ever plan by our club to rebuild the list and they've stuck to the task, in spite of the bed wetters.
It's not the boards fault that some of our early picks haven't come on as much as we'd like. They've set a strategic direction that has supported the rebuild and given the footy department every opportunity to succeed.

What more do you actually want them to do? Spell it out. Don't just spew out meaningless comments like "sack the board". What more would you want from the board and CEO over the past couple of year?

Personally, I give them great credit. I never thought I'd see a Carlton board with the guts to set a strategic plan in place to rebuild the list totally and see it out. They have and I give credit where it's due.
Whether the list manager and coaching staff have provided the framework and personnel, that's yet to be determined IMHO but it's not from lack of resources or support in my eyes.

I understand the frustration and anger but let's not lose our heads and rant and rave without basis or substance.
If Bolton has 5 wins at seasons end and the team are playing with enthusiasm and effort. I'd give him another year.
If not, give someone else an opportunity. IMHO, we have 1 coach who has twice shown an ability to mould a line into a strong cohesive unit. Dale Amos. I'd love to know whether he has the ability to take the next step. Interview him and a number of other candidates but let's not fall into the old Carlton model of going for another messiah.



The performance of a club on the field is reflected by what goes on at the top
There is a direct correlation
Loguidice 10 years
Pratt 8 years
Mathieson years
Clarke 12 years
These people wee ultimately responsible for sacking Ratten
appointing Malthouse
They have appointed the wrong people a second time

Unfortunately BV just like Mick Malthouse people with egos
and power don’t know when their time is up

The clubs last 7 years has been shambolic


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:07 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2455
How many times did we just stop dead. There were players in position down field and we stopped, waited for their defence to set up them kicked to a contest.

The coach is responsible for players positioning, I get he can’t help poor disposal, but good help me if the instructions are how they’re playing then we can not win a game


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:12 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:13 pm
Posts: 997
Location: Narre Warren VIC
kingkerna wrote:
Dodos are extinct for a reason

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk



And soon our Club will follow if something drastic is not done to save it :clap: :clap:


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:14 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Dodo27 wrote:
I truly believe that we are led by a bunch of heartless and greedy business Men who took control of our Club since 2003 and have totally destroyed it.

whilst as business men, they might have had success in turning a profit for the club ( or for themselves?? ), generating millions in revenue from Poker machines and other ventures, On the other hand, they have totally neglected the football side of things.

Those Men have no clue about football!

People ask the same question every week " What is the solution?? "


The Solution is that our entire Board must be stood down, our CEO Sacked and our entire football department should be replaced by people who know something about football.....


We are sick of the lies... the false promises.... the 5 year plan that has already occurred 3 times in 15 years....

Yep


I'd suggest the board have bought millions of dollars into the club. Are you suggesting they're in it to somehow drag money out of the club or to fill their own pockets?
Whilst you're sitting at home in winter watch MAFS or Home and Away, they actually do something productive for the club. They attend board meetings and functions that actually benefit the clubs existence. All the while paying for the privilege. Not getting paid.
Whilst the whingers here sit under their doonas and fire pissy cheap shots all the while contributing @#$%&! all.

Yes we could be better but I give the board full credit. They've set the first ever plan by our club to rebuild the list and they've stuck to the task, in spite of the bed wetters.
It's not the boards fault that some of our early picks haven't come on as much as we'd like. They've set a strategic direction that has supported the rebuild and given the footy department every opportunity to succeed.

What more do you actually want them to do? Spell it out. Don't just spew out meaningless comments like "sack the board". What more would you want from the board and CEO over the past couple of year?

Personally, I give them great credit. I never thought I'd see a Carlton board with the guts to set a strategic plan in place to rebuild the list totally and see it out. They have and I give credit where it's due.
Whether the list manager and coaching staff have provided the framework and personnel, that's yet to be determined IMHO but it's not from lack of resources or support in my eyes.

I understand the frustration and anger but let's not lose our heads and rant and rave without basis or substance.
If Bolton has 5 wins at seasons end and the team are playing with enthusiasm and effort. I'd give him another year.
If not, give someone else an opportunity. IMHO, we have 1 coach who has twice shown an ability to mould a line into a strong cohesive unit. Dale Amos. I'd love to know whether he has the ability to take the next step. Interview him and a number of other candidates but let's not fall into the old Carlton model of going for another messiah.



The performance of a club on the field is reflected by what goes on at the top
There is a direct correlation
Loguidice 10 years
Pratt 8 years
Mathieson 7 years( only there to keep uncle Bruce happy)
Clarke 12 years
These people wee ultimately responsible for sacking Ratten
appointing Malthouse
They have appointed the wrong people a second time

Unfortunately BV just like Mick Malthouse people with egos
and power don’t know when their time is up

The clubs last 7 years has been shambolic


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 2:00 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:29 am
Posts: 13627
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/05/26/ ... -riewoldt/

Quote:
Former St Kilda captain Nick Riewoldt was frustrated by Carlton’s lack of game sense during Sunday afternoon’s loss to his old side.

Two goals down and with less than three minutes on the clock, Blues defender Lachie Plowman had a kick in and elected to go short into the pocket, rather than long down the middle, which is what the Carlton players were set up for.


“They were set up for it (the kick into the corridor) so I’m putting this on the player,” Riewoldt told SEN Breakfast.

“The players have got to be so much better than this. Understand the situation that you’re in, show some leadership.

“Yesterday, Plowman in the goal square, two minutes to go, two scores down, they’re set up down the corridor, he goes sideways into the back pocket, held up on the mark, burns 20 seconds, he goes back to Plowman – game over.

“That complete lack of game sense and game awareness, who cares if you lose by three goals? Take the game on, go down the corridor and give yourself a chance to score.”

What frustrates Riewoldt is that he believes the Blues made the same mistake a fortnight ago against Collingwood.

“Cast your mind back to the Collingwood game. They’re about 10 points down with a couple of minutes to go,” he said.

“In the middle of the ground is Matthew Kreuzer, Patrick Cripps, Marc Murphy, they’re set up for the long kick down the middle.

“Jacob Weitering’s got it at full-back and he kicks sideways into the pocket. Held up, goes back off the mark, you lose the opportunity to take on the corridor, you burn some time.

“Now, they may not have won, but no game awareness.

“That was it, when I saw that, I thought, these blokes haven’t learned anything. This is three weeks after. Surely this had to be spoken about.”

Carlton sits two games clear on the bottom of the ladder with one win from 10 games.

They take on an injury plagued Essendon* this weekend in what is a huge game for both clubs.

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 2:15 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Plowman is no good at kick outs yet the coach has him on the list time and time again. When will the coaches learn he is a turnover merchant? The opposition line up to buy his produce.

I’d recruit Reiwoldt tonight and play him at CHB. Exactly the type of person we need at present on field.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 2:21 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Has SPS been instructed not to kick over 15m?

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 3:40 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue4ever wrote:
No midfield except for Cripps. Dow, SPS, Fisher and Kennedy were pathetic.


Sad but true. Apt word.

All first rounders.
They need to take a good hard look at themselves.

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 3:56 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2434
bluegirl72 wrote:
bluedog wrote:
KEEP THE FAITH.

I'm keeping faith in our players. I hurt for them. And I am going to side with SOS.
Apart from that.
Faith No More.
Broken.
Irreparable.
Time is up
We need Roos to come in and oversee...not coach. (I mean when we ask Bolts to step aside)The players need reassurance. I actually think they will bring him in with whoever takes over.


I have pretty much lost faith that Bolts is the guy.
For me, the benchmark is still 6 wins but v hard to see that happening if we couldn’t beat the Saints yesterday. Would need at a minimum to win 2 of the next 3. Having said that, if we can win 5 of the next 12 matches, it would demonstrate a clear upward trajectory and he’ll probably be ok. But just think that job now is getting close to insurmountable.
I think SOS has done a fine job. We have the talent. Still need a ruckman but otherwise, we’re ok for players with natural growth from here. Questions could be asked about mental toughness but I think that’s more about what happens once they get to the club.

At a minimum, I would expect a few of the assistants to go at seasons end - whether Bolts survives and certainly if a new coach comes in.

PS. We get it Bolts, we are a really unified group. Trouble is we’re unified around losing!

PPS. Not Roos! I think he is overrated - was very reliant on Longmire and Lyon at the Swans and frankly at the Demons, he did not much more than Bolts has done at Carlton. I.e. wait for the natural talent and strength of a raft of high draft picks delivers them a few wins. We need a tough, ambitious coach with something to prove and the drive to win. My guess would be not a rookie and not an old ‘Master’ whose best work is behind him!


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:08 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I had the choice to go watch Rocket Man with my beloved, or stay home and watch Carlton. I chose Carlton.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:23 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17517
There's a lot of similarities that I won't go in to.

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:40 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 23865
17th Premiership wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
bluedog wrote:
KEEP THE FAITH.

I'm keeping faith in our players. I hurt for them. And I am going to side with SOS.
Apart from that.
Faith No More.
Broken.
Irreparable.
Time is up
We need Roos to come in and oversee...not coach. (I mean when we ask Bolts to step aside)The players need reassurance. I actually think they will bring him in with whoever takes over.


I have pretty much lost faith that Bolts is the guy.
For me, the benchmark is still 6 wins but v hard to see that happening if we couldn’t beat the Saints yesterday. Would need at a minimum to win 2 of the next 3. Having said that, if we can win 5 of the next 12 matches, it would demonstrate a clear upward trajectory and he’ll probably be ok. But just think that job now is getting close to insurmountable.
I think SOS has done a fine job. We have the talent. Still need a ruckman but otherwise, we’re ok for players with natural growth from here. Questions could be asked about mental toughness but I think that’s more about what happens once they get to the club.

At a minimum, I would expect a few of the assistants to go at seasons end - whether Bolts survives and certainly if a new coach comes in.

PS. We get it Bolts, we are a really unified group. Trouble is we’re unified around losing!

PPS. Not Roos! I think he is overrated - was very reliant on Longmire and Lyon at the Swans and frankly at the Demons, he did not much more than Bolts has done at Carlton. I.e. wait for the natural talent and strength of a raft of high draft picks delivers them a few wins. We need a tough, ambitious coach with something to prove and the drive to win. My guess would be not a rookie and not an old ‘Master’ whose best work is behind him!

yeah...not as coach 17th. definitely not.
I think he'd be good at rebuilding these shattered players. Help them up..as a footy manager overseer type role.
I hope we get Clarkson. He is my 1st choice.
things are that dire. we need a lot of help.

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:50 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
The Normal One wrote:
Plowman is no good at kick outs yet the coach has him on the list time and time again. When will the coaches learn he is a turnover merchant? The opposition line up to buy his produce.

I’d recruit Reiwoldt tonight and play him at CHB. Exactly the type of person we need at present on field.


The AFL got rid of having to kick out from inside the square.
They made the man on the mark go back 9 metres from the end of the square.
The clear aim was to help tams clear the 50 metre danger area.
We still kick it to an outrider on the boundary who is closer to our goal than the man on the mark.

Some one on Fox said the other night,
"Teams set up because they want the opposition to wait and then kick to a contest down the line. It's the easiest thing to defend."
That's our game plan!

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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:48 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Sombrero wrote:
The Normal One wrote:
Plowman is no good at kick outs yet the coach has him on the list time and time again. When will the coaches learn he is a turnover merchant? The opposition line up to buy his produce.

I’d recruit Reiwoldt tonight and play him at CHB. Exactly the type of person we need at present on field.


The AFL got rid of having to kick out from inside the square.
They made the man on the mark go back 9 metres from the end of the square.
The clear aim was to help tams clear the 50 metre danger area.
We still kick it to an outrider on the boundary who is closer to our goal than the man on the mark.

Some one on Fox said the other night,
"Teams set up because they want the opposition to wait and then kick to a contest down the line. It's the easiest thing to defend."
That's our game plan!


Plowman has lost me. I can't defend the indefensible.
He's a plodder, and despite knowing BB's game plan better than others, his decision making is poor.

Every team has taken advantage of the opportunity to run the ball out with the new kick out rules, but we have not aclimatised yet.

Really poor stuff. No innovation. No insight.

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