Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:41 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 162 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:43 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 7749
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Rocky Henderson wrote:
I was in the sugar coaters corner until the loss to St.kilda.
Bolton’s skating on some very thin ice at the moment.
I believe he’s 99% out the door at this stage.
We have a spine to work with minus a ruck.
We’ve lost too many winnable games this year.
We need a big bodied mid to protect Cripps and share the load otherwise it’ll be Judd all over again



This is SOS’s fault not Bolton’s.


Not really.

Charlie Curnow was recruited as a big bodied mid.
Everyone has fallen in lovewith Charlie as a forward and some even suggest we keep him out of the midfield to avoid injury.
It's footy FFS.



Charlie played TAC as a forward. He had a couple of runs on ball but that was it.
I don't understand the push to play him on ball. Firstly, he hasn't shown an ability to win the ball when he plays there and secondly, he's our best and most versatile forward IMHO.


Essendon* planned on drafting him as a midfield bull until his drink-driving incident.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:52 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6314
Location: Bendigo
I've waited an age for this thread.

_________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:29 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:32 pm
Posts: 1392
Location: Hobart
AIRCAV wrote:
Is it too late for us to be moved to Gold Coast?

or Tassie?

_________________
one you knock back is one you never have


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:52 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:32 pm
Posts: 1392
Location: Hobart
AIRCAV wrote:
Is it too late for us to be moved to Gold Coast?

or Tassie?

_________________
one you knock back is one you never have


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:29 pm 
Offline
Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8166
Location: Australia
AIRCAV wrote:
Is it too late for us...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:50 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Rocky Henderson wrote:
I was in the sugar coaters corner until the loss to St.kilda.
Bolton’s skating on some very thin ice at the moment.
I believe he’s 99% out the door at this stage.
We have a spine to work with minus a ruck.
We’ve lost too many winnable games this year.
We need a big bodied mid to protect Cripps and share the load otherwise it’ll be Judd all over again



This is SOS’s fault not Bolton’s.


Not really.

Charlie Curnow was recruited as a big bodied mid.
Everyone has fallen in lovewith Charlie as a forward and some even suggest we keep him out of the midfield to avoid injury.
It's footy FFS.



Charlie played TAC as a forward. He had a couple of runs on ball but that was it.
I don't understand the push to play him on ball. Firstly, he hasn't shown an ability to win the ball when he plays there and secondly, he's our best and most versatile forward IMHO.


The fact he played a midfield role in TAC remains a fact. I think you're downplaying his success here. More than a couple of runs.

He looked at home when he played there.

Dees were going to take Curnow as a mid ... from half way of that TAC season. He was 191 cms.
Dees went with another mid who had a great run home in Oliver after Curnow's drink driving.

I don't agree with you that Charlie has been our best and most versatile forward this season. He's been one of our biggest disappointments this year, including before he bruised his knee.

Against that backdrop and given we had McKay and McGovern as forward targets who were kicking goals whilst Charlie went missing, and we had a need for midfield support for Cripps, he was an obvious and a good choice for midfield minutes.

Finally, as mentioned above, Charlie played a midfield role in a mini footy game I saw during preseason, against Cripps and he won nearly every contest. He looked a natural in the midfield.

I have no doubt he can play a midfield role, but what I'm spruiking is for midfield minutes, mix things up, put a big body in support of Cripps. I prefer at least two mobile big bodies in the midfield and one small in Fish, SPS ora medium in Dow. Not Kennedy.

If we don't add another big bodied mid and Cripps get tagged, e get smashed see North GWS and last weekends game for proof.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:41 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5990
Location: Melbourne
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Rocky Henderson wrote:
I was in the sugar coaters corner until the loss to St.kilda.
Bolton’s skating on some very thin ice at the moment.
I believe he’s 99% out the door at this stage.
We have a spine to work with minus a ruck.
We’ve lost too many winnable games this year.
We need a big bodied mid to protect Cripps and share the load otherwise it’ll be Judd all over again



This is SOS’s fault not Bolton’s.


Not really.

Charlie Curnow was recruited as a big bodied mid.
Everyone has fallen in lovewith Charlie as a forward and some even suggest we keep him out of the midfield to avoid injury.
It's footy FFS.



Charlie played TAC as a forward. He had a couple of runs on ball but that was it.
I don't understand the push to play him on ball. Firstly, he hasn't shown an ability to win the ball when he plays there and secondly, he's our best and most versatile forward IMHO.


The fact he played a midfield role in TAC remains a fact. I think you're downplaying his success here. More than a couple of runs.

He looked at home when he played there.

Dees were going to take Curnow as a mid ... from half way of that TAC season. He was 191 cms.
Dees went with another mid who had a great run home in Oliver after Curnow's drink driving.

I don't agree with you that Charlie has been our best and most versatile forward this season. He's been one of our biggest disappointments this year, including before he bruised his knee.

Against that backdrop and given we had McKay and McGovern as forward targets who were kicking goals whilst Charlie went missing, and we had a need for midfield support for Cripps, he was an obvious and a good choice for midfield minutes.

Finally, as mentioned above, Charlie played a midfield role in a mini footy game I saw during preseason, against Cripps and he won nearly every contest. He looked a natural in the midfield.

I have no doubt he can play a midfield role, but what I'm spruiking is for midfield minutes, mix things up, put a big body in support of Cripps. I prefer at least two mobile big bodies in the midfield and one small in Fish, SPS ora medium in Dow. Not Kennedy.

If we don't add another big bodied mid and Cripps get tagged, e get smashed see North GWS and last weekends game for proof.


Charlie should at least go in there ever now and again, like pavlich did at freo. I mean we lack big bodies to help Cripps and against GWS we just let him get beaten up without help in the name of Education or being comfortable feeling uncomfortable or (insert bolts cliche here)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:31 am 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 20208
Location: North of the border
Haven't been here for a while - Like a Ghost town these days

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:36 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:19 am
Posts: 2076
Location: Melbourne
Sydney Blue wrote:
Haven't been here for a while - Like a Ghost town these days

And may it stay that way.
Go Blues! :fight:

_________________
Our tradition demands success!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:49 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5461
Still plenty of time in the season to clear the tumble weeds and dust off the pistols.
Especially if Teague is not appointed head coach.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:04 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
So when the dust settles after the draft and we have our list settled how
will the team perform in 2020
The club pointed the blame at Bolton for its poor performance
Under Teague the club improved heaps but why?

One is a new voice different personality etc
The real test for Teague is the next three years
The other structural change which had a massive effect was Teague putting Murphy and
Curnow in the middle
Bolton tried to fast track Fisher SPS Dow etc and they were ragdolled
Murphy is 33 next year
Take out him and Curnow out and what you have got is Walsh and Cripps and that’s it

Our future midfield is uncertain based on these players performances
Nobody can accurately predict how our midfield will go a few years down the track

You need 8 to 10 guys that can rotate through there to win a flag

I won’t repeat my other views about his recruiting except to say
As Eastwood said in Sudden Impact
Opinions are like arseholes
Everybody’s got one


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:12 pm 
Offline
Vale 1953-2020
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 11671
keogh wrote:
So when the dust settles after the draft and we have our list settled how
will the team perform in 2020
The club pointed the blame at Bolton for its poor performance
Under Teague the club improved heaps but why?

One is a new voice different personality etc
The real test for Teague is the next three years
The other structural change which had a massive effect was Teague putting Murphy and
Curnow in the middle
Bolton tried to fast track Fisher SPS Dow etc and they were ragdolled
Murphy is 33 next year
Take out him and Curnow out and what you have got is Walsh and Cripps and that’s it

Our future midfield is uncertain based on these players performances
Nobody can accurately predict how our midfield will go a few years down the track

You need 8 to 10 guys that can rotate through there to win a flag

I won’t repeat my other views about his recruiting except to say
As Eastwood said in Sudden Impact
Opinions are like arseholes
Everybody’s got one


Er, I think you got lost. This is the "Why Silvagni is great for us" thread you've stumbled into, while looking for the "Another thread I can spew forth my badly written bullshit about random unconnected Carlton shit" thread.

That one's over there.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

_________________
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:26 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
GreatEx wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
Er, I think you got lost. This is the "Why Silvagni is great for us" thread you've stumbled into, while looking for the "Another thread I can spew forth my badly written bullshit about random unconnected Carlton shit" thread.

That one's over there.


Yeah, but there's a cool hundred buckaroos to be made off windy. Let's keep quiet and split the winnings.

Keogh, tell me more!





In relation to Martin, it would seem we will probably get him in the pre -season draft unless Melbourne can convince him to go there.
If that doesn't happen that is a good move by SOS although he was willing to give up a future second and third rounder.
Martin is overrated IMO based on his output so far. Has heaps of ability, but that is only part of the equation to be a successful player.
To me recruiting and list management are the most important element in achieving a premiership.
The old saying" you can't pull your socks up if you haven't got any " never ages.
Even more so now in 2020 and beyond. All clubs are on a level playing field with facilities,fitness, player welfare etc.
If clubs like the Gold Coast are behind in certain areas, the AFL will prop them up as we have seen recently.
Coaching appointments have changed. We will never see another Hird or Malthouse situation again where blokes are handed the job then proceed to @#$%&! it up. Ross Lyon is a yesterdays man. He wont coach at senior level again.The Pyke situation will become less frequent.
Which makes the importance of recruiting even more vital. Unlike most other aspects that make an AFL club successful recruiting isn't an exact science because predominatly teenagers are recruited.Some develop slowly but can have the ability and the mental capacity to be good players even excellent players in their early 20s as we have seen with Tim Kelly. They get overlook totally or are a late pick when they are 18. The opposite is true for some 18 year olds who star at junior level because they are physically developed already and arn't a moron. By the time they get to their early 20s players they were dominating at junior level have gone passed them.

This is why getting recruiting right is paramount. Another equalisation move by the AFL was to introduce the soft cap. Which means that clubs can only spend x amount on recruiting. Most clubs like ours have 3 full time staff in recruiting.
For us that is SOS, Brodie who was also at GWS and Agresta. Then there is about six or seven part timers. How the club runs its recruiting
depends on the recruiting staff with feedback from other staff although I suspect SOS has total control over this area due in part to his name and his mateship with the President. I know Geelong have a part time fellow who lives in Perth. He goes to as many Colts, Reserves and Senior games visiting all the clubs. He has his finger on the pulse. Same applies in Adelaide. My understanding is Carlton doesn't have this arrangement with its part time staff. That is the responsibility of SOS and I reckon he is wrong.
If you can find one player from the SANFL or WAFL or NEFL or VFL per year over a 5 year rebuild that's one quarter of your premiership team.
Harry Taylor, Lewis Jetta, Tim Kelly are example of blokes who matured later. Much easier to recruit them if you focus a bit more on that area with someone living close by rather than solely on GWS and other AFL rejects of which there have been many our recruiting team have picked and ultimately mostly have been delisted and moved on. And if interstate blokes who thrive at your club want to go back home you can get something for them as Geelong have done with draft picks from the Eagles. SOS and his team haven't done this. Gibbons was an after thought after Bugg another GWS reject pulled the pin before the season started.

Now have a look at the last 10 premiership teams.
The three numbers in order are
Players pick 50 or over rookie pre season mid season
top 20
pick 21-39
2019 Rich 9,9,4
2018 WC 10,6,6
2017 Rich 7,9,6
2016 WB 9,5,8
2015 Haw 6,11,5
2014 Haw 6,9,7
2013 Haw 5,10,7
2012 Syd 12,4,6
2011 Gee 2,8,12
2010 Coll 11,8,3

Having been at the club for 4 full drafts, SOS can only claim two pick from the first category. Gibbons and Williamson. I do have hopes for Cottrell and Owies.
Rather he has picked the mature aged players from other AFL clubs to give the kids a chop out. Most have been spuds.
Add Phillips to the list.
All this makes SOS 'not great"
In fact Moshe like awesome, great is a very over used word.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:13 pm 
Offline
Vale 1953-2020
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 11671
keogh wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
Er, I think you got lost. This is the "Why Silvagni is great for us" thread you've stumbled into, while looking for the "Another thread I can spew forth my badly written bullshit about random unconnected Carlton shit" thread.

That one's over there.


Yeah, but there's a cool hundred buckaroos to be made off windy. Let's keep quiet and split the winnings.

Keogh, tell me more!


........ The old saying" you can't pull your socks up if you haven't got any " never ages...

Then it's not an old saying.


Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

_________________
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:36 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
moshe25 wrote:
keogh wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
Er, I think you got lost. This is the "Why Silvagni is great for us" thread you've stumbled into, while looking for the "Another thread I can spew forth my badly written bullshit about random unconnected Carlton shit" thread.

That one's over there.


Yeah, but there's a cool hundred buckaroos to be made off windy. Let's keep quiet and split the winnings.

Keogh, tell me more!


........ The old saying" you can't pull your socks up if you haven't got any " never ages...

Then it's not an old saying.


Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

What about the stats
Or you are just going to ignore them
Basically out of the 220 premiership players category 1 and 2 are roughly the same number
And Sos has jagged 2 in 4 years one as an after thought from category one



Going to address the question
What evidence do you have to say he is great
Because if you don’t I won’t be posting 11 times :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:44 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 14040
Location: Melbourne
keogh wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
Er, I think you got lost. This is the "Why Silvagni is great for us" thread you've stumbled into, while looking for the "Another thread I can spew forth my badly written bullshit about random unconnected Carlton shit" thread.

That one's over there.


Yeah, but there's a cool hundred buckaroos to be made off windy. Let's keep quiet and split the winnings.

Keogh, tell me more!





In relation to Martin, it would seem we will probably get him in the pre -season draft unless Melbourne can convince him to go there.
If that doesn't happen that is a good move by SOS although he was willing to give up a future second and third rounder.
Martin is overrated IMO based on his output so far. Has heaps of ability, but that is only part of the equation to be a successful player.
To me recruiting and list management are the most important element in achieving a premiership.
The old saying" you can't pull your socks up if you haven't got any " never ages.
Even more so now in 2020 and beyond. All clubs are on a level playing field with facilities,fitness, player welfare etc.
If clubs like the Gold Coast are behind in certain areas, the AFL will prop them up as we have seen recently.
Coaching appointments have changed. We will never see another Hird or Malthouse situation again where blokes are handed the job then proceed to @#$%&! it up. Ross Lyon is a yesterdays man. He wont coach at senior level again.The Pyke situation will become less frequent.
Which makes the importance of recruiting even more vital. Unlike most other aspects that make an AFL club successful recruiting isn't an exact science because predominatly teenagers are recruited.Some develop slowly but can have the ability and the mental capacity to be good players even excellent players in their early 20s as we have seen with Tim Kelly. They get overlook totally or are a late pick when they are 18. The opposite is true for some 18 year olds who star at junior level because they are physically developed already and arn't a moron. By the time they get to their early 20s players they were dominating at junior level have gone passed them.

This is why getting recruiting right is paramount. Another equalisation move by the AFL was to introduce the soft cap. Which means that clubs can only spend x amount on recruiting. Most clubs like ours have 3 full time staff in recruiting.
For us that is SOS, Brodie who was also at GWS and Agresta. Then there is about six or seven part timers. How the club runs its recruiting
depends on the recruiting staff with feedback from other staff although I suspect SOS has total control over this area due in part to his name and his mateship with the President. I know Geelong have a part time fellow who lives in Perth. He goes to as many Colts, Reserves and Senior games visiting all the clubs. He has his finger on the pulse. Same applies in Adelaide. My understanding is Carlton doesn't have this arrangement with its part time staff. That is the responsibility of SOS and I reckon he is wrong.
If you can find one player from the SANFL or WAFL or NEFL or VFL per year over a 5 year rebuild that's one quarter of your premiership team.
Harry Taylor, Lewis Jetta, Tim Kelly are example of blokes who matured later. Much easier to recruit them if you focus a bit more on that area with someone living close by rather than solely on GWS and other AFL rejects of which there have been many our recruiting team have picked and ultimately mostly have been delisted and moved on. And if interstate blokes who thrive at your club want to go back home you can get something for them as Geelong have done with draft picks from the Eagles. SOS and his team haven't done this. Gibbons was an after thought after Bugg another GWS reject pulled the pin before the season started.

Now have a look at the last 10 premiership teams.
The three numbers in order are
Players pick 50 or over rookie pre season mid season
top 20
pick 21-39
2019 Rich 9,9,4
2018 WC 10,6,6
2017 Rich 7,9,6
2016 WB 9,5,8
2015 Haw 6,11,5
2014 Haw 6,9,7
2013 Haw 5,10,7
2012 Syd 12,4,6
2011 Gee 2,8,12
2010 Coll 11,8,3

Having been at the club for 4 full drafts, SOS can only claim two pick from the first category. Gibbons and Williamson. I do have hopes for Cottrell and Owies.
Rather he has picked the mature aged players from other AFL clubs to give the kids a chop out. Most have been spuds.
Add Phillips to the list.
All this makes SOS 'not great"
In fact Moshe like awesome, great is a very over used word.


Carlton has a full timer in WA.

Regards Cazzesman

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:01 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
I have been asking that question for ages
Ok that’s good
And he reports I assume to Brodie who is the National Recruiting Manager
What about SA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:26 pm 
Offline
Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8166
Location: Australia
keogh wrote:
I have been asking that question for ages
Ok that’s good
And he reports I assume to Brodie who is the National Recruiting Manager
What about SA


!
.
?
?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:07 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 17150
Location: threeohfivethree
keogh wrote:
I have been asking that question for ages
Ok that’s good
And he reports I assume to Brodie who is the National Recruiting Manager
What about SA


So what you’re really saying is you have no @#$%&! idea about what the actual structure of our recruiting department is but you’re more than willing to keep heaping shit on them despite your ignorance.

_________________
"Liberals feel unworthy of their possessions. Conservatives feel they deserve everything they've stolen."

Mort Sahl


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:17 am 
Offline
Vale 1953-2020
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 11671
keogh wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
keogh wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
Er, I think you got lost. This is the "Why Silvagni is great for us" thread you've stumbled into, while looking for the "Another thread I can spew forth my badly written bullshit about random unconnected Carlton shit" thread.

That one's over there.


Yeah, but there's a cool hundred buckaroos to be made off windy. Let's keep quiet and split the winnings.

Keogh, tell me more!


........ The old saying" you can't pull your socks up if you haven't got any " never ages...

Then it's not an old saying.


Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

What about the stats
Or you are just going to ignore them
Basically out of the 220 premiership players category 1 and 2 are roughly the same number
And Sos has jagged 2 in 4 years one as an after thought from category one



Going to address the question
What evidence do you have to say he is great
Because if you don’t I won’t be posting 11 times :wink:
Huh?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

_________________
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 162 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 49 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group