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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:10 am 
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Ken Hunter
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keogh wrote:
I have been asking that question for ages
Ok that’s good
And he reports I assume to Brodie who is the National Recruiting Manager
What about SA



No idea who he reports to. Brodie and Agresta would make sense

No idea about SA.

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:59 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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keogh wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
Er, I think you got lost. This is the "Why Silvagni is great for us" thread you've stumbled into, while looking for the "Another thread I can spew forth my badly written bullshit about random unconnected Carlton shit" thread.

That one's over there.


Yeah, but there's a cool hundred buckaroos to be made off windy. Let's keep quiet and split the winnings.

Keogh, tell me more!





In relation to Martin, it would seem we will probably get him in the pre -season draft unless Melbourne can convince him to go there.
If that doesn't happen that is a good move by SOS although he was willing to give up a future second and third rounder.
Martin is overrated IMO based on his output so far. Has heaps of ability, but that is only part of the equation to be a successful player.
To me recruiting and list management are the most important element in achieving a premiership.
The old saying" you can't pull your socks up if you haven't got any " never ages.
Even more so now in 2020 and beyond. All clubs are on a level playing field with facilities,fitness, player welfare etc.
If clubs like the Gold Coast are behind in certain areas, the AFL will prop them up as we have seen recently.
Coaching appointments have changed. We will never see another Hird or Malthouse situation again where blokes are handed the job then proceed to @#$%&! it up. Ross Lyon is a yesterdays man. He wont coach at senior level again.The Pyke situation will become less frequent.
Which makes the importance of recruiting even more vital. Unlike most other aspects that make an AFL club successful recruiting isn't an exact science because predominatly teenagers are recruited.Some develop slowly but can have the ability and the mental capacity to be good players even excellent players in their early 20s as we have seen with Tim Kelly. They get overlook totally or are a late pick when they are 18. The opposite is true for some 18 year olds who star at junior level because they are physically developed already and arn't a moron. By the time they get to their early 20s players they were dominating at junior level have gone passed them.

This is why getting recruiting right is paramount. Another equalisation move by the AFL was to introduce the soft cap. Which means that clubs can only spend x amount on recruiting. Most clubs like ours have 3 full time staff in recruiting.
For us that is SOS, Brodie who was also at GWS and Agresta. Then there is about six or seven part timers. How the club runs its recruiting
depends on the recruiting staff with feedback from other staff although I suspect SOS has total control over this area due in part to his name and his mateship with the President. I know Geelong have a part time fellow who lives in Perth. He goes to as many Colts, Reserves and Senior games visiting all the clubs. He has his finger on the pulse. Same applies in Adelaide. My understanding is Carlton doesn't have this arrangement with its part time staff. That is the responsibility of SOS and I reckon he is wrong.
If you can find one player from the SANFL or WAFL or NEFL or VFL per year over a 5 year rebuild that's one quarter of your premiership team.
Harry Taylor, Lewis Jetta, Tim Kelly are example of blokes who matured later. Much easier to recruit them if you focus a bit more on that area with someone living close by rather than solely on GWS and other AFL rejects of which there have been many our recruiting team have picked and ultimately mostly have been delisted and moved on. And if interstate blokes who thrive at your club want to go back home you can get something for them as Geelong have done with draft picks from the Eagles. SOS and his team haven't done this. Gibbons was an after thought after Bugg another GWS reject pulled the pin before the season started.

Now have a look at the last 10 premiership teams.
The three numbers in order are
Players pick 50 or over rookie pre season mid season
top 20
pick 21-39
2019 Rich 9,9,4
2018 WC 10,6,6
2017 Rich 7,9,6
2016 WB 9,5,8
2015 Haw 6,11,5
2014 Haw 6,9,7
2013 Haw 5,10,7
2012 Syd 12,4,6
2011 Gee 2,8,12
2010 Coll 11,8,3

Having been at the club for 4 full drafts, SOS can only claim two pick from the first category. Gibbons and Williamson. I do have hopes for Cottrell and Owies.
Rather he has picked the mature aged players from other AFL clubs to give the kids a chop out. Most have been spuds.
Add Phillips to the list.
All this makes SOS 'not great"
In fact Moshe like awesome, great is a very over used word.



I love the analysis keogh.
Makes TC are richer place for it.

I'd be amazed if Carlton didn't have several Carlton people on the look out in SA, but if WA warrants a full timer then SA should too.
Maybe you should ask the club directly.
I'm also keen on the indigenous talent in the northern part of Australia.

keogh, I do understand your point about the talent in the major leagues.
I was arguing a similar right up till Duigan was selected .
I also know and you should acknowledge that SOS had Kelly earmarked for pick 30 but Cats got him.
What that says is there is eyes on the look out in WA and that SOS is interested enough and went to see and meet Kelly for himself.

Where you seem to lose cred and respect is from the constant attack on SOS. Its baseless until we look deeper at the order of things.
Yes he's at the top of List management, but Brad Lloyd is the Head of Football and Judd is the Director of Football.

You really should stop the constant smear campaign you are insistent on directing at SOS, the Head of List Management and TPP.
Its nauseating, its inaccurate and it seems personal.

i like the stats you provide. They are facts.
As for the accusations you make, they are not facts: something you long for but....you know.

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 Post subject: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:56 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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I'm heading over here again.
After yesterday's insipid first 40 minutes I am claiming I was right again.
The 132 game rebuild is a total @#$%&! up .

It is the mentality that has been allowed to fester in the club for years .
It doesn't matter if we win so we don't. There are no consequences if we lose so who gives a shit.

The most polished professional kid I have ever seen enter the arena is now a fumbling bumbling park footballer since he came to Carlton. He actually missed his foot yesterday when he went to kick it.



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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:01 am 
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Craig Bradley

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Just to make you all feel better since 2015 we have won 26 games GC have won 24 including last night
We should no longer be putting up with these insipid performances and failing to turn up and represent our club appropriately


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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:05 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I've been thinking about this today, we either have the talent or we don't. If we don't have the talent we should have lost by 10 goals plus.

I'm not sugar coating, just trying to assess our true position. Clearly we haven't put 4 good quarters together for a long time. We've been fast starters under Bolton (vs Hawks) and also slow under Bolton (many times), slow starters under Teague (several times).

If we are as bad as some say we wouldn't come back / have dominant periods over other teams.

I don't even think it's a mental thing, there does seem to be a lack of intensity though.

Overall I think we carry too many weaker players. Particularly in the midfield, this prevents us from being able to perform at the level we can for more than bursts.

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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:42 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I lasted 6 minutes yesterday before taking the dog for a 90 minute walk. We have talent. But we still have people around the joint who have always been excused for losing. There's always an excuse and these blokes have always grabbed at them whenever they have been offered up. We are a mentally weak footy club and I can't see that ever changing.

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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:05 am 
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Bruce Doull
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I can see it changing. I can't believe I'm saying that given how shit I'm feeling, but I can.

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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:10 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3448
kingkerna wrote:
I've been thinking about this today, we either have the talent or we don't. If we don't have the talent we should have lost by 10 goals plus.

I'm not sugar coating, just trying to assess our true position. Clearly we haven't put 4 good quarters together for a long time. We've been fast starters under Bolton (vs Hawks) and also slow under Bolton (many times), slow starters under Teague (several times).

If we are as bad as some say we wouldn't come back / have dominant periods over other teams.

I don't even think it's a mental thing, there does seem to be a lack of intensity though.

Overall I think we carry too many weaker players. Particularly in the midfield, this prevents us from being able to perform at the level we can for more than bursts.



We are physically capable
We are mentally INcapable
Losing culture is OVERRATED..Rich went from basket case/laughing stock/Ninthmond to almost triple premiers in 5 years
Brisbane's losses haven't given them long term scars
GWS's losses haven't scarred them. Soon, we'll be saying the same about GC

Nobody seems to have an antidote to cure our mental weakness

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 Post subject: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:11 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Nothing lasts forever and we both know hearts can change?

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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:28 am 
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Bruce Doull
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There could be actual November Rain at this year's grand final.

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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:32 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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99prelim wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
I've been thinking about this today, we either have the talent or we don't. If we don't have the talent we should have lost by 10 goals plus.

I'm not sugar coating, just trying to assess our true position. Clearly we haven't put 4 good quarters together for a long time. We've been fast starters under Bolton (vs Hawks) and also slow under Bolton (many times), slow starters under Teague (several times).

If we are as bad as some say we wouldn't come back / have dominant periods over other teams.

I don't even think it's a mental thing, there does seem to be a lack of intensity though.

Overall I think we carry too many weaker players. Particularly in the midfield, this prevents us from being able to perform at the level we can for more than bursts.



We are physically capable
We are mentally INcapable
Losing culture is OVERRATED..Rich went from basket case/laughing stock/Ninthmond to almost triple premiers in 5 years
Brisbane's losses haven't given them long term scars
GWS's losses haven't scarred them. Soon, we'll be saying the same about GC

Nobody seems to have an antidote to cure our mental weakness


Remove #3 and #6 from the list.

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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:34 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am
Posts: 28221
Heavs wrote:
99prelim wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
I've been thinking about this today, we either have the talent or we don't. If we don't have the talent we should have lost by 10 goals plus.

I'm not sugar coating, just trying to assess our true position. Clearly we haven't put 4 good quarters together for a long time. We've been fast starters under Bolton (vs Hawks) and also slow under Bolton (many times), slow starters under Teague (several times).

If we are as bad as some say we wouldn't come back / have dominant periods over other teams.

I don't even think it's a mental thing, there does seem to be a lack of intensity though.

Overall I think we carry too many weaker players. Particularly in the midfield, this prevents us from being able to perform at the level we can for more than bursts.



We are physically capable
We are mentally INcapable
Losing culture is OVERRATED..Rich went from basket case/laughing stock/Ninthmond to almost triple premiers in 5 years
Brisbane's losses haven't given them long term scars
GWS's losses haven't scarred them. Soon, we'll be saying the same about GC

Nobody seems to have an antidote to cure our mental weakness


Remove #3 and #6 from the list.


and #8


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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:46 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Heavs wrote:
I lasted 6 minutes yesterday before taking the dog for a 90 minute walk. We have talent. But we still have people around the joint who have always been excused for losing. There's always an excuse and these blokes have always grabbed at them whenever they have been offered up. We are a mentally weak footy club and I can't see that ever changing.




I miss the days our players would have vowed next weeks opponent would pay the price after a loss.
One loss in 4 to 6 weeks and the whole club would be in complete misery and anger.
Our players knew they failed and it wouldn’t be tolerated.
Missing out on finals for year meant heads rolled - irrelevant of who.
That’s the culture we had and premierships built on.


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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:27 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Rexy wrote:
Heavs wrote:
99prelim wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
I've been thinking about this today, we either have the talent or we don't. If we don't have the talent we should have lost by 10 goals plus.

I'm not sugar coating, just trying to assess our true position. Clearly we haven't put 4 good quarters together for a long time. We've been fast starters under Bolton (vs Hawks) and also slow under Bolton (many times), slow starters under Teague (several times).

If we are as bad as some say we wouldn't come back / have dominant periods over other teams.

I don't even think it's a mental thing, there does seem to be a lack of intensity though.

Overall I think we carry too many weaker players. Particularly in the midfield, this prevents us from being able to perform at the level we can for more than bursts.



We are physically capable
We are mentally INcapable
Losing culture is OVERRATED..Rich went from basket case/laughing stock/Ninthmond to almost triple premiers in 5 years
Brisbane's losses haven't given them long term scars
GWS's losses haven't scarred them. Soon, we'll be saying the same about GC

Nobody seems to have an antidote to cure our mental weakness


Remove #3 and #6 from the list.


and #8


Agreed, and find a replacement for #35 in the midfield.

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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:40 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3448
bondiblue wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Heavs wrote:
99prelim wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
I've been thinking about this today, we either have the talent or we don't. If we don't have the talent we should have lost by 10 goals plus.

I'm not sugar coating, just trying to assess our true position. Clearly we haven't put 4 good quarters together for a long time. We've been fast starters under Bolton (vs Hawks) and also slow under Bolton (many times), slow starters under Teague (several times).

If we are as bad as some say we wouldn't come back / have dominant periods over other teams.

I don't even think it's a mental thing, there does seem to be a lack of intensity though.

Overall I think we carry too many weaker players. Particularly in the midfield, this prevents us from being able to perform at the level we can for more than bursts.



We are physically capable
We are mentally INcapable
Losing culture is OVERRATED..Rich went from basket case/laughing stock/Ninthmond to almost triple premiers in 5 years
Brisbane's losses haven't given them long term scars
GWS's losses haven't scarred them. Soon, we'll be saying the same about GC

Nobody seems to have an antidote to cure our mental weakness


Remove #3 and #6 from the list.


and #8


Agreed, and find a replacement for #35 in the midfield.


I'd give that job to Stocker...at least in bursts. will also each him the mid craft if he's locking on the better mids

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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:52 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 10059
Sydney Blue wrote:
I'm heading over here again.
After yesterday's insipid first 40 minutes I am claiming I was right again.
The 132 game rebuild is a total @#$%&! up .

It is the mentality that has been allowed to fester in the club for years .
It doesn't matter if we win so we don't. There are no consequences if we lose so who gives a shit.

The most polished professional kid I have ever seen enter the arena is now a fumbling bumbling park footballer since he came to Carlton. He actually missed his foot yesterday when he went to kick it.



Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


Agree SB. We need a Wes Lofts or Neil Balme to clean the place up. Getting in pick 1's now or later is the not the answer and never will be.
We need to get our successful culture back and quickly. Why do we have coaches that have been there for 10+ years?


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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:33 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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We could have lost the matches against Geelong and Essendon*.
We could be zip and 5. Then we’d really be in deep Scheisse. :banghead:

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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:37 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14235
Feeling a bit miserable today.
Not footy related but this just sucks.
6 weeks of lockdown again is such a depressing thought.
I am sure many of us here are in the same boat and are going through the same frustrations.
It is hard to believe we are back here again, and for most of us through no fault of ours.
To all of those selfish, inconsiderate people and to those incompetent fools for the quarantine debacle.
Thanks a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:52 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:30 pm
Posts: 362
Yep, big time crap Kezza. Stuffs my work up again. Hang in there. At least we can watch our Blues.


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 Post subject: Re: Misery Guts Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:31 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Careful what you wish for..

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