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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:14 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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bondiblue wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Shows how far this club has fallen we applaud another loss.

Two games in a row we have played just half a game. We used to complain when we played just three quarters.

The bottom six players are still below par.

Bolton surely can't continue to defend the Fasolo recruitment. He's the fittest he's ever been. Yeah right?!

I know the midfield is young but outside of that there's still too many passengers, a lack of discipline, and lapses in concentration.

Weitering and SPS the only positives.

Weitering, I agree with but SPS was shocking.


I'm reading this thread from page 5 to 1.

I mentioned a while ago you have changed and definitely not a glass half full supporter.

To use a line you used in reply to Okhams reasonable post...." what game were you watching?"

Tell us all what SPS did wrong, and where you think he was playing and what role.

He showed class and poise. He didn't get 30 possessions but he was playing as a defensive mid as opposed to an accumulator. Doesn't waste much.

Maybe you should compare players for number of successful connect with their disposals.

Last year and the year before are the past. Gonski. Just as 1995 and 1968 have.

In case you didn't notice umpires did not pay the same to Carlton for incorrect disposal or head high slaps as they did for Port and Richmond for that matter. Makes a difference. Refer to Dogs game in the last quarter when they had the rub of the ump.

Umpires aside. I see a better game plan and improvement in 2019 compared to 2018 and 17.

We came out of the blocks and held the lead till we lost our best running forward with a knee. We didn't adjust and took a while to do so. When we settled we fought back and took the lead. We missed some obvious options to score goals in the last which we expected, but it wasn't the kids that turned over the ball.

Last week at 3/4 time most people thought Carlton were going to run over Tigers, same against Port. We didn't, but we put ourselves in a position to do so. We can fix that and I bet we do and get a few wins from that fix.

Obvious some players need to show more than they did, or be replace by Silvagni Kennedy OBrien.
Those individuals are the reason we failed in the end. Lucky for Fasolo that ball fell in his arms in the last otherwise he would have nothing to show other than an assist in a lucky goal in the 1st. Murphy had a dog of a game, and I haven't been a fan of his for a couple years now, Polson should do more but showed something albeit not enough... and so on.

It's not a coaching thing that failed us imo.

I'm not accepting failure but I can see signs we will hit a winning streak at some stage this season, maybe when Kreuzer Marchbank Silvagni and Curnow are all playing with the best we had on Saturday.

All I can say is that it is a new year and the signs are good...there's something there.
We know we need to lift for 4 quarters, and I know the players know that too.

I don't think they only played 4/8 quarters his year. I think we didn't put pressure on for 2 x 10 minute periods per game. We can bridge that or do you think that's impossible too?

I'll start from the end and answer backwards.
If you can find the word 'impossible' with regard to improvement in any post I have made on this thread, I will have a case of Corona delivered to your door. Unlike you to make shit up.
We have played 4/8 quarters so far whether or not you agree. A quarter goes for 30 mins. if you play for twenty of them or ten or five, it makes no difference. Hawks only lapsed for 15 mins in their last quarter so I am sure Clarko is as happy with them as you are with us.
I posted SPS's errors in detail in another thread. if you look for them, you can find them. I don't deny he has poise and skill and if you look on his page you will find I acknowledge that. I added that the difference between his best and worst is too big. I also mentioned Cripps's errors in the same thread. If you search for little league, it should take you to them. Of course any criticism of Cripps will be seen as 100% negative. He is perfect in every way in the eyes of many.
As I wrote yesterday, all I want is for them to play four quarters of footy. How can that be asking too much? Too many people on here are hanging off every word BB says as though he is the messiah and not the coach of a footy team. I am not saying he is wrong, nor am I saying he should go but I am saying there are more and more posters on here who leap to the defence of the coach and players in the face of any strident criticism. He, himself says he wants more accountability from the players who have been there for a few years. Do you think he won't go through the game and ask SPS why he gave away a free in our FP when the ball was dead and ten seconds later PA had a coast to coast goal from that free? Of course he will. I do it here and all of a sudden it's unacceptable to criticise him.
We were two points down at 3/4 time and I posted on the game thread that we should go with them but a blowout would be unacceptable. They kicked the first goal and straight away, their heads dropped and they reverted to their panic game, which is to stop running and just kick the ball to a contest and hope it comes off.
I don't care if we lose games of football. It's going to happen. I do care that the players can't show us they will play the game out. That used to be important. Now those of us who ask for it get tag teamed here on PC by the 'true believers' for being too negative and subjective (which is a laugh because subjectivity is associated with opinion and no facts and applies equally to both discussions here). If Essendon* wasn't so shit, the 'experts' would be all over us.
During the off season I mentioned a list of the teams I thought we could/should beat if we are to finish 12-14th, which was/is my expectation. It's over on talking AFL I think, Dogs, GCS, StK, NM. I added that I thought Hawks and Geelong would slide. Dogs have improved, GCS have improved, StK have improved, NM don't seem to have improved against the others and I think our improvement based on two weeks JLT and two rounds has not outstripped Dogs, StK and GCS. I hope I am wrong. Hawks look in trouble as I thought but Geelong isn't. Sydney isn't tracking so well but I don't think they were in my post.
Here's a question.
Who are we going to beat playing two (or even three) quarters a week if we are going to win 6-8 games, which seems to be a pretty common number doing the pages of TC?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:44 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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cecil89 wrote:
I thought the game was won and lost off the back of the clearance battle, which leads to the territory battle. We had more of the footy in our forward half in the third quarter and were able to build pressure and set up a defensive structure that made it difficult for Port to move the ball.
Through large parts of the game we were unable to gain any territory. Our defence held up well, but we were left with a difficult situation of kicking long down the line because of Port’s zone or needing to play quick and find holes in the zone. A lot of times when we went quick we got the ball forward, but then lost it and Port were able to spread and come back the other way. That happens when you play quickly and don’t have time to set up a defensive structure behind the ball.
We either need to get better at our fast paced transition and capitalise from it more often, or we need to adjust that tempo a bit and get a better structure behind the ball to avoid being hurt on turnover.

I’ve read a lot about lack of effort, defensive mindset, being out coached etc, but I didn’t see it that way. We simply failed to gain control of the contest for long enough. For me that lands with a young midfield and clear loss in the ruck battle.


Correct. Looking past some of the hysterical rubbish being written, Port scored 6.4 from stoppages and we kicked 2.2.That's the ball game.
23 of Ports stoppage wins came from a 29yo Rockliff, a 30yo Boak, a 31yo Robbie Gray and Scott Lycett.
Compare that to us. Patrick Cripps, Walsh and Dow are the only players to win more than 2 stoppages. We're playing a midfield that is outsized and mostly in their second or 3rd year yet they're learning and improving constantly. It will pay us back in spades yet some posters cant comprehend the details outside of the win/loss column.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:52 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Blue Vain wrote:
cecil89 wrote:
I thought the game was won and lost off the back of the clearance battle, which leads to the territory battle. We had more of the footy in our forward half in the third quarter and were able to build pressure and set up a defensive structure that made it difficult for Port to move the ball.
Through large parts of the game we were unable to gain any territory. Our defence held up well, but we were left with a difficult situation of kicking long down the line because of Port’s zone or needing to play quick and find holes in the zone. A lot of times when we went quick we got the ball forward, but then lost it and Port were able to spread and come back the other way. That happens when you play quickly and don’t have time to set up a defensive structure behind the ball.
We either need to get better at our fast paced transition and capitalise from it more often, or we need to adjust that tempo a bit and get a better structure behind the ball to avoid being hurt on turnover.

I’ve read a lot about lack of effort, defensive mindset, being out coached etc, but I didn’t see it that way. We simply failed to gain control of the contest for long enough. For me that lands with a young midfield and clear loss in the ruck battle.



Correct. Looking past some of the hysterical rubbish being written, Port scored 6.4 from stoppages and we kicked 2.2.That's the ball game.
23 of Ports stoppage wins came from a 29yo Rockliff, a 30yo Boak, a 31yo Robbie Gray and Scott Lycett.
Compare that to us. Patrick Cripps, Walsh and Dow are the only players to win more than 2 stoppages. We're playing a midfield that is outsized and mostly in their second or 3rd year yet they're learning and improving constantly. It will pay us back in spades yet some posters cant comprehend the details outside of the win/loss column.



That’s well and good and totally agree with you - so when Cripps, Dow, Walsh, Setterfield etc are around 28 or so I look forward to that delivery of spades.

Do you think Bunnings will give us a good price if we order a truckload of them?

:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:59 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Sombrero wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Shows how far this club has fallen we applaud another loss.

Two games in a row we have played just half a game. We used to complain when we played just three quarters.

The bottom six players are still below par.

Bolton surely can't continue to defend the Fasolo recruitment. He's the fittest he's ever been. Yeah right?!

I know the midfield is young but outside of that there's still too many passengers, a lack of discipline, and lapses in concentration.

Weitering and SPS the only positives.

Weitering, I agree with but SPS was shocking.


I'm reading this thread from page 5 to 1.

I mentioned a while ago you have changed and definitely not a glass half full supporter.

To use a line you used in reply to Okhams reasonable post...." what game were you watching?"

Tell us all what SPS did wrong, and where you think he was playing and what role.

He showed class and poise. He didn't get 30 possessions but he was playing as a defensive mid as opposed to an accumulator. Doesn't waste much.

Maybe you should compare players for number of successful connect with their disposals.

Last year and the year before are the past. Gonski. Just as 1995 and 1968 have.

In case you didn't notice umpires did not pay the same to Carlton for incorrect disposal or head high slaps as they did for Port and Richmond for that matter. Makes a difference. Refer to Dogs game in the last quarter when they had the rub of the ump.

Umpires aside. I see a better game plan and improvement in 2019 compared to 2018 and 17.

We came out of the blocks and held the lead till we lost our best running forward with a knee. We didn't adjust and took a while to do so. When we settled we fought back and took the lead. We missed some obvious options to score goals in the last which we expected, but it wasn't the kids that turned over the ball.

Last week at 3/4 time most people thought Carlton were going to run over Tigers, same against Port. We didn't, but we put ourselves in a position to do so. We can fix that and I bet we do and get a few wins from that fix.

Obvious some players need to show more than they did, or be replace by Silvagni Kennedy OBrien.
Those individuals are the reason we failed in the end. Lucky for Fasolo that ball fell in his arms in the last otherwise he would have nothing to show other than an assist in a lucky goal in the 1st. Murphy had a dog of a game, and I haven't been a fan of his for a couple years now, Polson should do more but showed something albeit not enough... and so on.

It's not a coaching thing that failed us imo.

I'm not accepting failure but I can see signs we will hit a winning streak at some stage this season, maybe when Kreuzer Marchbank Silvagni and Curnow are all playing with the best we had on Saturday.

All I can say is that it is a new year and the signs are good...there's something there.
We know we need to lift for 4 quarters, and I know the players know that too.

I don't think they only played 4/8 quarters his year. I think we didn't put pressure on for 2 x 10 minute periods per game. We can bridge that or do you think that's impossible too?

I'll start from the end and answer backwards.
If you can find the word 'impossible' with regard to improvement in any post I have made on this thread, I will have a case of Corona delivered to your door. Unlike you to make shit up.
We have played 4/8 quarters so far whether or not you agree. A quarter goes for 30 mins. if you play for twenty of them or ten or five, it makes no difference. Hawks only lapsed for 15 mins in their last quarter so I am sure Clarko is as happy with them as you are with us.
I posted SPS's errors in detail in another thread. if you look for them, you can find them. I don't deny he has poise and skill and if you look on his page you will find I acknowledge that. I added that the difference between his best and worst is too big. I also mentioned Cripps's errors in the same thread. If you search for little league, it should take you to them. Of course any criticism of Cripps will be seen as 100% negative. He is perfect in every way in the eyes of many.
As I wrote yesterday, all I want is for them to play four quarters of footy. How can that be asking too much? Too many people on here are hanging off every word BB says as though he is the messiah and not the coach of a footy team. I am not saying he is wrong, nor am I saying he should go but I am saying there are more and more posters on here who leap to the defence of the coach and players in the face of any strident criticism. He, himself says he wants more accountability from the players who have been there for a few years. Do you think he won't go through the game and ask SPS why he gave away a free in our FP when the ball was dead and ten seconds later PA had a coast to coast goal from that free? Of course he will. I do it here and all of a sudden it's unacceptable to criticise him.
We were two points down at 3/4 time and I posted on the game thread that we should go with them but a blowout would be unacceptable. They kicked the first goal and straight away, their heads dropped and they reverted to their panic game, which is to stop running and just kick the ball to a contest and hope it comes off.
I don't care if we lose games of football. It's going to happen. I do care that the players can't show us they will play the game out. That used to be important. Now those of us who ask for it get tag teamed here on PC by the 'true believers' for being too negative and subjective (which is a laugh because subjectivity is associated with opinion and no facts and applies equally to both discussions here). If Essendon** wasn't so shit, the 'experts' would be all over us.
During the off season I mentioned a list of the teams I thought we could/should beat if we are to finish 12-14th, which was/is my expectation. It's over on talking AFL I think, Dogs, GCS, StK, NM. I added that I thought Hawks and Geelong would slide. Dogs have improved, GCS have improved, StK have improved, NM don't seem to have improved against the others and I think our improvement based on two weeks JLT and two rounds has not outstripped Dogs, StK and GCS. I hope I am wrong. Hawks look in trouble as I thought but Geelong isn't. Sydney isn't tracking so well but I don't think they were in my post.
Here's a question.
Who are we going to beat playing two (or even three) quarters a week if we are going to win 6-8 games, which seems to be a pretty common number doing the pages of TC?


BS. we have been on this 'journey' for a long time on TC.
We have waited for a long time for a top 4 team to evolve. It hasn't for 2 decades.
Everyone is hurting, but some us choose to see what we have and what we can build from to view the future.

All I'm pointing out again is that you have become very negative towards everything Carlton delivers on the field, and that's Ok.
There's plenty of negative supporters on TC, and it has become a forum where they can be as such.
There's a need for such a forum. No problem with that despite some of the exaggerated remarks being made against our team of kids.

You see yourself as a glass half full supporter and Im pointing out that's not the case imo.
That shouldn't bother you. Im just saying the frustration of losing has got to you and you seem to see yourself as a glass is half full supporter but think you have reached the end of your tether.

I was fuming about the same little odd mistakes I witnessed throughout the game, even in the first and 3rd quarters we won. I chose not to vent and watch the game again and seek to understand what happened, where the improvement can come from, what we have to find to fill gaps, and watch all other teams to see if they make fundamental mistakes like Crippa and SPS made. Its amazing how much cooled down after that.

I didn't suggest for a second you used the word impossible, I just asked a question? A question you may reply as yes or no, not direct it back to me as talking shit. You are making up stuff. I'm not interested in arguing against you. I'm just looking at a few points you made and I find it hard to find any positive ones.

You were not just pointing out 2 mistakes by our, soon to be 21 yo, SPS. You said something along the lines of him being...well, a very bad and dumb footballer.
Remember Percy kicking the post? He's a Premiership player, AA, Victorian etc. Malcolm Bligh running across the square into the points etc etc.

No one is calling Cripps the messiah. He made mistakes too. You are making it a point that no one can criticise Cripps when no one has said that at all. Maybe Cripps kick to a 2 or 3 on 1 was ridiculous ( and I did at the time, and still feel that way) and its easy to say he couldn't give a shit about the outcome, without knowing, because that's what it looked like on TV, or maybe no one was presenting...I don't know.

As for playing 2/4 quarters or 80% of game time, I understand your metrics and agree we lost 2 quarters and won 2. But when we look at the lapses it comes down to 10 minutes here and 15 minutes there. Improving thos 25 minute lapses is a much easier fix than broadbrush 30 minutes and 30 minutes = 60 minutes. I hope and trust that Andrew Russell would be looking at the 2 lapses of 10 and 15 minutes because he looks at botht he physical and mental aspect of the individual and I believe he's the man who could fix that. If not, I would be shouting for a new high performance coach.

Bolton doesn't create the lapses, and with the reduction of runners' time, it is more the difficult to adjust any lapses or structural issues.

We fell apart when Charlie went down. OR was it we lost a bit of confidence OR something else. Something happened.

Im still glad you are a passionate Bluebagger but don't shoot the messenger and don;t tell me I'm an apologist or one of BV's glass half full Bolton lovers...not that you did...but you might. :wink:

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Last edited by bondiblue on Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:19 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
What concerned me most on Saturday was:

1. Disposal efficiency across the board

2. Murphy's inability or lack of inclination to use his legs and run with the ball and bomb it without conviction. I'm not sure where he fits if he can't lay a tackle in the forwardline.

3. Fasolo's lack of contested ball and forward pressure

4. I'm starting to believe Plowman needs to change his attack and energy levels or the contest.

5. Constant corralling of players rather than attacking the hips and as a result closing down the working space of an opponent.

6. Having heard and read the criticisim of Garlett Im questioning my patience and his ability to become a good running defender whilst there's a void there through injury

7. I though Philips did a fantastic job in the first quarter and in general around the ground in both games but his opponent in both games kicked goals and were bests on the ground.

8. I don't know if Kreuzer is the answer or would be alot better than Philips. I'm hoping he would be and can ruck longer than Philips.

9. I don't like robbing the forwardline of our best mark in McKay. We lose structure, and with Charlie off we had no forward targets.

10 A lack of body strength in the centre bounces other than Cripps. Would like to see Jack n there, or Kennedy to give Crippa time forward and some relief from the coal face

11. Setterfield went missing in the first half and just tagged Rockliff in the 2nd half. I would expect Ed to be the tagger and Setters being the bull.

12.Somehow Bolton has dropped his ultra defensive periods. He should have applied that in the 2nd when we were obviously losing concentration and structure to weather the storm.

13. Our injury toll is very high after 2 rounds: Kruezer

14. Gibbons was a hard worker for 4 quarters but doesn't have that express pace to compensate for his lack of size. I thought he and Polson were brushed aside too easily. We have a need for speed.

Good thing is that Bolton, and his match Committee and Andrew Russell would be awars of the above and so much more, and most important they can target to fix the deficiencies: some this year, some next year.

Need to target a ruckman ... next year
Need to find a small speedy dangerous forward..who can mark....next year
Need to find speed from HB if Garlett doesn't work out...and its not Docherty: he's the General....next year

Hope the young mids (Dow, Setters, SPS, Fisher and Walsh) get stronger and quicker but may require another preseason or we need to add an elite strong bodied playmaker like Cognilio...Don't know...just guessing.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:24 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
cecil89 wrote:
I thought the game was won and lost off the back of the clearance battle, which leads to the territory battle. We had more of the footy in our forward half in the third quarter and were able to build pressure and set up a defensive structure that made it difficult for Port to move the ball.
Through large parts of the game we were unable to gain any territory. Our defence held up well, but we were left with a difficult situation of kicking long down the line because of Port’s zone or needing to play quick and find holes in the zone. A lot of times when we went quick we got the ball forward, but then lost it and Port were able to spread and come back the other way. That happens when you play quickly and don’t have time to set up a defensive structure behind the ball.
We either need to get better at our fast paced transition and capitalise from it more often, or we need to adjust that tempo a bit and get a better structure behind the ball to avoid being hurt on turnover.

I’ve read a lot about lack of effort, defensive mindset, being out coached etc, but I didn’t see it that way. We simply failed to gain control of the contest for long enough. For me that lands with a young midfield and clear loss in the ruck battle.


Correct. Looking past some of the hysterical rubbish being written, Port scored 6.4 from stoppages and we kicked 2.2.That's the ball game.
23 of Ports stoppage wins came from a 29yo Rockliff, a 30yo Boak, a 31yo Robbie Gray and Scott Lycett.
Compare that to us. Patrick Cripps, Walsh and Dow are the only players to win more than 2 stoppages. We're playing a midfield that is outsized and mostly in their second or 3rd year yet they're learning and improving constantly. It will pay us back in spades yet some posters cant comprehend the details outside of the win/loss column.


We have the quality but not the maturity...add Setterfield, SPS and Fisher to that lot.

Will another preseason be the answer, or 2 preseasons? or will we need to get a boanfide ready made mid to work with Cripps whilst the others play a more outside role whilct they develop.

The kids are beauties to be competiing so well against seasoned bodies with 5-6 more preseaons under their belt. I know we wont have to wait 5-6 preseasons for our kids to cut it. Its not far away. They are all classy mids.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:02 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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AGRO wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
cecil89 wrote:
I thought the game was won and lost off the back of the clearance battle, which leads to the territory battle. We had more of the footy in our forward half in the third quarter and were able to build pressure and set up a defensive structure that made it difficult for Port to move the ball.
Through large parts of the game we were unable to gain any territory. Our defence held up well, but we were left with a difficult situation of kicking long down the line because of Port’s zone or needing to play quick and find holes in the zone. A lot of times when we went quick we got the ball forward, but then lost it and Port were able to spread and come back the other way. That happens when you play quickly and don’t have time to set up a defensive structure behind the ball.
We either need to get better at our fast paced transition and capitalise from it more often, or we need to adjust that tempo a bit and get a better structure behind the ball to avoid being hurt on turnover.

I’ve read a lot about lack of effort, defensive mindset, being out coached etc, but I didn’t see it that way. We simply failed to gain control of the contest for long enough. For me that lands with a young midfield and clear loss in the ruck battle.



Correct. Looking past some of the hysterical rubbish being written, Port scored 6.4 from stoppages and we kicked 2.2.That's the ball game.
23 of Ports stoppage wins came from a 29yo Rockliff, a 30yo Boak, a 31yo Robbie Gray and Scott Lycett.
Compare that to us. Patrick Cripps, Walsh and Dow are the only players to win more than 2 stoppages. We're playing a midfield that is outsized and mostly in their second or 3rd year yet they're learning and improving constantly. It will pay us back in spades yet some posters cant comprehend the details outside of the win/loss column.



That’s well and good and totally agree with you - so when Cripps, Dow, Walsh, Setterfield etc are around 28 or so I look forward to that delivery of spades.

Do you think Bunnings will give us a good price if we order a truckload of them?

:lol:


No. I expect them to improve rapidly as they have to date. Whilst Ports older group will be on the slide.
We knew when we went to the draft to pick up kids that it will take a bit of time in the system for them to develop. But I suspect you know that already.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:21 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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So all looking good for season 2025.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:45 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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AGRO wrote:
So all looking good for season 2025.


Why do you say that?
You don't think success is that far?
or do you imply in 2025 our success continues after success in 2020 -2024 period?
What do you think?

I think our season this year will show improvement and expect at least half a dozen wins based on what I've seen thus far.

Next year we will improve again, maybe make finals because kids grow stronger, become faster, last longer and know more about the game.
A FA and a Trade to bolster the group will see to that assertion.

By 2025 I'd expect we have already played or come close to a GF or two.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:06 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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bondiblue wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Shows how far this club has fallen we applaud another loss.

Two games in a row we have played just half a game. We used to complain when we played just three quarters.

The bottom six players are still below par.

Bolton surely can't continue to defend the Fasolo recruitment. He's the fittest he's ever been. Yeah right?!

I know the midfield is young but outside of that there's still too many passengers, a lack of discipline, and lapses in concentration.

Weitering and SPS the only positives.

Weitering, I agree with but SPS was shocking.


I'm reading this thread from page 5 to 1.

I mentioned a while ago you have changed and definitely not a glass half full supporter.

To use a line you used in reply to Okhams reasonable post...." what game were you watching?"

Tell us all what SPS did wrong, and where you think he was playing and what role.

He showed class and poise. He didn't get 30 possessions but he was playing as a defensive mid as opposed to an accumulator. Doesn't waste much.

Maybe you should compare players for number of successful connect with their disposals.

Last year and the year before are the past. Gonski. Just as 1995 and 1968 have.

In case you didn't notice umpires did not pay the same to Carlton for incorrect disposal or head high slaps as they did for Port and Richmond for that matter. Makes a difference. Refer to Dogs game in the last quarter when they had the rub of the ump.

Umpires aside. I see a better game plan and improvement in 2019 compared to 2018 and 17.

We came out of the blocks and held the lead till we lost our best running forward with a knee. We didn't adjust and took a while to do so. When we settled we fought back and took the lead. We missed some obvious options to score goals in the last which we expected, but it wasn't the kids that turned over the ball.

Last week at 3/4 time most people thought Carlton were going to run over Tigers, same against Port. We didn't, but we put ourselves in a position to do so. We can fix that and I bet we do and get a few wins from that fix.

Obvious some players need to show more than they did, or be replace by Silvagni Kennedy OBrien.
Those individuals are the reason we failed in the end. Lucky for Fasolo that ball fell in his arms in the last otherwise he would have nothing to show other than an assist in a lucky goal in the 1st. Murphy had a dog of a game, and I haven't been a fan of his for a couple years now, Polson should do more but showed something albeit not enough... and so on.

It's not a coaching thing that failed us imo.

I'm not accepting failure but I can see signs we will hit a winning streak at some stage this season, maybe when Kreuzer Marchbank Silvagni and Curnow are all playing with the best we had on Saturday.

All I can say is that it is a new year and the signs are good...there's something there.
We know we need to lift for 4 quarters, and I know the players know that too.

I don't think they only played 4/8 quarters his year. I think we didn't put pressure on for 2 x 10 minute periods per game. We can bridge that or do you think that's impossible too?

I'll start from the end and answer backwards.
If you can find the word 'impossible' with regard to improvement in any post I have made on this thread, I will have a case of Corona delivered to your door. Unlike you to make shit up.
We have played 4/8 quarters so far whether or not you agree. A quarter goes for 30 mins. if you play for twenty of them or ten or five, it makes no difference. Hawks only lapsed for 15 mins in their last quarter so I am sure Clarko is as happy with them as you are with us.
I posted SPS's errors in detail in another thread. if you look for them, you can find them. I don't deny he has poise and skill and if you look on his page you will find I acknowledge that. I added that the difference between his best and worst is too big. I also mentioned Cripps's errors in the same thread. If you search for little league, it should take you to them. Of course any criticism of Cripps will be seen as 100% negative. He is perfect in every way in the eyes of many.
As I wrote yesterday, all I want is for them to play four quarters of footy. How can that be asking too much? Too many people on here are hanging off every word BB says as though he is the messiah and not the coach of a footy team. I am not saying he is wrong, nor am I saying he should go but I am saying there are more and more posters on here who leap to the defence of the coach and players in the face of any strident criticism. He, himself says he wants more accountability from the players who have been there for a few years. Do you think he won't go through the game and ask SPS why he gave away a free in our FP when the ball was dead and ten seconds later PA had a coast to coast goal from that free? Of course he will. I do it here and all of a sudden it's unacceptable to criticise him.
We were two points down at 3/4 time and I posted on the game thread that we should go with them but a blowout would be unacceptable. They kicked the first goal and straight away, their heads dropped and they reverted to their panic game, which is to stop running and just kick the ball to a contest and hope it comes off.
I don't care if we lose games of football. It's going to happen. I do care that the players can't show us they will play the game out. That used to be important. Now those of us who ask for it get tag teamed here on PC by the 'true believers' for being too negative and subjective (which is a laugh because subjectivity is associated with opinion and no facts and applies equally to both discussions here). If Essendon*** wasn't so shit, the 'experts' would be all over us.
During the off season I mentioned a list of the teams I thought we could/should beat if we are to finish 12-14th, which was/is my expectation. It's over on talking AFL I think, Dogs, GCS, StK, NM. I added that I thought Hawks and Geelong would slide. Dogs have improved, GCS have improved, StK have improved, NM don't seem to have improved against the others and I think our improvement based on two weeks JLT and two rounds has not outstripped Dogs, StK and GCS. I hope I am wrong. Hawks look in trouble as I thought but Geelong isn't. Sydney isn't tracking so well but I don't think they were in my post.
Here's a question.
Who are we going to beat playing two (or even three) quarters a week if we are going to win 6-8 games, which seems to be a pretty common number doing the pages of TC?


BS. we have been on this 'journey' for a long time on TC.
We have waited for a long time for a top 4 team to evolve. It hasn't for 2 decades.
Everyone is hurting, but some us choose to see what we have and what we can build from to view the future.

All I'm pointing out again is that you have become very negative towards everything Carlton delivers on the field, and that's Ok.
There's plenty of negative supporters on TC, and it has become a forum where they can be as such.
There's a need for such a forum. No problem with that despite some of the exaggerated remarks being made against our team of kids.

You see yourself as a glass half full supporter and Im pointing out that's not the case imo.
That shouldn't bother you. Im just saying the frustration of losing has got to you and you seem to see yourself as a glass is half full supporter but think you have reached the end of your tether.

I was fuming about the same little odd mistakes I witnessed throughout the game, even in the first and 3rd quarters we won. I chose not to vent and watch the game again and seek to understand what happened, where the improvement can come from, what we have to find to fill gaps, and watch all other teams to see if they make fundamental mistakes like Crippa and SPS made. Its amazing how much cooled down after that.

I didn't suggest for a second you used the word impossible, I just asked a question? A question you may reply as yes or no, not direct it back to me as talking shit. You are making up stuff. I'm not interested in arguing against you. I'm just looking at a few points you made and I find it hard to find any positive ones.

You were not just pointing out 2 mistakes by our, soon to be 21 yo, SPS. You said something along the lines of him being...well, a very bad and dumb footballer.You made that up. I said he made some dumb mistakes. It's hardly the same thing. I said elsewhere he is a highly skilled player whose best and worst are too far apart.
Remember Percy kicking the post? He's a Premiership player, AA, Victorian etc. Malcolm Bligh running across the square into the points etc etc.

No one is calling Cripps the messiah. He made mistakes too. You are making it a point that no one can criticise Cripps when no one has said that at all. Maybe Cripps kick to a 2 or 3 on 1 was ridiculous ( and I did at the time, and still feel that way) and its easy to say he couldn't give a shit about the outcome, without knowing, because that's what it looked like on TV, or maybe no one was presenting...I don't know.

As for playing 2/4 quarters or 80% of game time, I understand your metrics and agree we lost 2 quarters and won 2. But when we look at the lapses it comes down to 10 minutes here and 15 minutes there. Improving thos 25 minute lapses is a much easier fix than broadbrush 30 minutes and 30 minutes = 60 minutes. I hope and trust that Andrew Russell would be looking at the 2 lapses of 10 and 15 minutes because he looks at botht he physical and mental aspect of the individual and I believe he's the man who could fix that. If not, I would be shouting for a new high performance coach.

Bolton doesn't create the lapses, and with the reduction of runners' time, it is more the difficult to adjust any lapses or structural issues.

We fell apart when Charlie went down. OR was it we lost a bit of confidence OR something else. Something happened.

Im still glad you are a passionate Bluebagger but don't shoot the messenger and don;t tell me I'm an apologist or one of BV's glass half full Bolton lovers...not that you did...but you might. :wink:

I have always respected your posts and still do but please don't make stuff up. It detracts from an otherwise balanced perspective.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:09 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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bondiblue wrote:
What concerned me most on Saturday was:

1. Disposal efficiency across the board

2. Murphy's inability or lack of inclination to use his legs and run with the ball and bomb it without conviction. I'm not sure where he fits if he can't lay a tackle in the forwardline.

3. Fasolo's lack of contested ball and forward pressure

4. I'm starting to believe Plowman needs to change his attack and energy levels or the contest.

5. Constant corralling of players rather than attacking the hips and as a result closing down the working space of an opponent.

6. Having heard and read the criticisim of Garlett Im questioning my patience and his ability to become a good running defender whilst there's a void there through injury

7. I though Philips did a fantastic job in the first quarter and in general around the ground in both games but his opponent in both games kicked goals and were bests on the ground.

8. I don't know if Kreuzer is the answer or would be alot better than Philips. I'm hoping he would be and can ruck longer than Philips.

9. I don't like robbing the forwardline of our best mark in McKay. We lose structure, and with Charlie off we had no forward targets.

10 A lack of body strength in the centre bounces other than Cripps. Would like to see Jack n there, or Kennedy to give Crippa time forward and some relief from the coal face

11. Setterfield went missing in the first half and just tagged Rockliff in the 2nd half. I would expect Ed to be the tagger and Setters being the bull.

12.Somehow Bolton has dropped his ultra defensive periods. He should have applied that in the 2nd when we were obviously losing concentration and structure to weather the storm.

13. Our injury toll is very high after 2 rounds: Kruezer

14. Gibbons was a hard worker for 4 quarters but doesn't have that express pace to compensate for his lack of size. I thought he and Polson were brushed aside too easily. We have a need for speed.

Good thing is that BS, Bolton, and his match Committee and Andrew Russell would be awars of the above and so much more, and most important they can target to fix the deficiencies: some this year, some next year.

Need to target a ruckman ... next year
Need to find a small speedy dangerous forward..who can mark....next year
Need to find speed from HB if Garlett doesn't work out...and its not Docherty: he's the General....next year

Hope the young mids (Dow, Setters, SPS, Fisher and Walsh) get stronger and quicker but may require another preseason or we need to add an elite strong bodied playmaker like Cognilio...Don't know...just guessing.

EFA

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:00 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Blue Vain wrote:
cecil89 wrote:
I thought the game was won and lost off the back of the clearance battle, which leads to the territory battle. We had more of the footy in our forward half in the third quarter and were able to build pressure and set up a defensive structure that made it difficult for Port to move the ball.
Through large parts of the game we were unable to gain any territory. Our defence held up well, but we were left with a difficult situation of kicking long down the line because of Port’s zone or needing to play quick and find holes in the zone. A lot of times when we went quick we got the ball forward, but then lost it and Port were able to spread and come back the other way. That happens when you play quickly and don’t have time to set up a defensive structure behind the ball.
We either need to get better at our fast paced transition and capitalise from it more often, or we need to adjust that tempo a bit and get a better structure behind the ball to avoid being hurt on turnover.

I’ve read a lot about lack of effort, defensive mindset, being out coached etc, but I didn’t see it that way. We simply failed to gain control of the contest for long enough. For me that lands with a young midfield and clear loss in the ruck battle.


Correct. Looking past some of the hysterical rubbish being written, Port scored 6.4 from stoppages and we kicked 2.2.That's the ball game.
23 of Ports stoppage wins came from a 29yo Rockliff, a 30yo Boak, a 31yo Robbie Gray and Scott Lycett.
Compare that to us. Patrick Cripps, Walsh and Dow are the only players to win more than 2 stoppages. We're playing a midfield that is outsized and mostly in their second or 3rd year yet they're learning and improving constantly.
It will pay us back in spades yet some posters cant comprehend the details outside of the win/loss column.


:clap: :clap:
I mentioned elsewhere that the preseasons in our mids' bodies and legs is what's holding us back
Even Bris have Zorko, Neale, Rich, Robinson, Lyons who are seasoned mids (Rich is defensive mid..)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:08 pm 
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The penny is finally dropping.

We’ll be fine in about 2025, when our young mids/kids are in their mid 20’s and have played 100 games or so.

Hope we’ve all got patience.

:thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:24 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher

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The 24 year rebuild.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:27 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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AGRO wrote:
So all looking good for season 2025.


Sure. Save yourself the grief and come back then.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:32 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Blue Vain wrote:
AGRO wrote:
So all looking good for season 2025.


Sure. Save yourself the grief and come back then.



No seriously, I’m happy to wait, but I just want to know who is going to give Dow, Fisher, Walsh, Setterfield, Kennedy and Seton a chop out till then, just leave it to Cripps I suppose.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:31 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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... And the Port v Lions game this week should be interesting for some... ;)

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:35 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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AGRO wrote:
The penny is finally dropping.

We’ll be fine in about 2025, when our young mids/kids are in their mid 20’s and have played 100 games or so.

Hope we’ve all got patience.

:thumbsup:

Time is of the essence for some of us.
Patience is hard to find when your hour glass has a shitload more sand in the bottom bit than the top.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:07 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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bondiblue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
So all looking good for season 2025.


Why do you say that?
You don't think success is that far?
or do you imply in 2025 our success continues after success in 2020 -2024 period?
What do you think?

I think our season this year will show improvement and expect at least half a dozen wins based on what I've seen thus far.

Next year we will improve again, maybe make finals because kids grow stronger, become faster, last longer and know more about the game.
A FA and a Trade to bolster the group will see to that assertion.

By 2025 I'd expect we have already played or come close to a GF or two.

The Blueprint Mk II ???

I hope the sequel is better than the original...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:45 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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AGRO wrote:
The penny is finally dropping.

We’ll be fine in about 2025, when our young mids/kids are in their mid 20’s and have played 100 games or so.

Hope we’ve all got patience.

:thumbsup:


2025! FMD. Seriously? I’m so glad I remember 72, 79, 81, 82, 87, 95
I feel for our younger supporters who have never felt that incredibly special feeling of winning a Premiership.
I suppose we have no choice but to be patient.
Keep the faith everyone. The Almighty Blues will have the last laugh and get to No 17 before Essendon**

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