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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:07 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm
Posts: 2251
very interesting :donk:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17518
cecil89 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Sorry but if SOS misses on Coniglio after missing on Sheil last year then his position should come under serious question.


Setterfield was the primary target for us AND Essendon***. They only chased Shiel after they missed Setterfield.


Good mail on that BV?

It surprises me that their preference was a talented but injury prone 2 gamer rather than a proven all Australian. Not saying they wouldn’t have been disappointed to miss setters, but surely Shiel was the big fish.


Yep. Bombers were huge fans. They contemplated nominating him with their number 1 pick in his draft year to drag him away from the GWS academy. He's not as highly rated as Shiel but he was far greater value and has much greater scope for improvement. Both clubs prioritised him as the primary target.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:25 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Rexy wrote:
SOS has had a lot of assets to use ... salary cap space, draft picks, Andrew Russell, future business networks ..more than most other clubs.

It's not unreasonable to expect him to land a big fish or two.


I don’t want us to land a so called ‘big fish’ for the sake of it. I want strategic list management. Eg. Would you have been happy to get Shiel if it meant we missed Walsh & Setterfield?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:43 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Setterfield had nothing to do with the Shiel deal. It was completed before we were told no.

The question then is, Walsh or most likely finals this year?


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 Post subject: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2434
I would love to get Coniglio.
However, I also don’t want to sell the farm to get him.

Big fish recruits are overrated. I’m not sure I can remember a recent example where a big fish has delivered a flag.
Buddy to the Swans?
Dangerfield to Geelong?
And these were already top teams...
Stringer AND Shiel to the Bombers?
Treloar and Adams to the Pies?
Judd for us?
The closest would be Tom Boyd to the Dogs.
Maybe this year the Tigers will win with Lynch. Maybe.

On the other hand, I can think of a few teams who lost a big fish and then won a flag...
Buddy left the Hawks
Ablett left Geelong
Deledio left the Tigers

The point is that a big fish isn’t necessarily the answer.
And I certainly wouldn’t be judging SOS on this somewhat fickle aspect of the job!



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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:56 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14238
bondiblue wrote:
robertbb wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
17th Premiership wrote:
Stocker trade now looking like pick 3 for pick 9 + Stocker.
Even after our dismal start to the year and in a season where there are an unusual no of teams in the 8-10 win range, it still looks like a pretty good outcome, provided Stocker becomes a half decent player for us.


If cog's decides to leave GWS (he will be at the blues if he does leave) then it will be pick 3 for cogs & stoker. :grin: :grin: :grin:


He'll cost us two first rounders.


Exactly.

All GWS have to do is match the offer, lets say $2M then work like hell to get fit him within the salary cap (players deciding to take less in 2020 and be compensated later).

This would force Carlton or Hawks to pay them what they want or negotiate players picks or both.

2 first rounders is what we have in our back pocket, so its doable. I could live with that.

Pretty sure that if a club matches any offers on a restricted free agent they must prove to the AFL at the time that they can fit the player into their salary cap. They can't be renegotiating contracts after, what if players refuse to alter their contracts?


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 Post subject: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:15 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 3581
Rexy wrote:
SOS has had a lot of assets to use ... salary cap space, draft picks, Andrew Russell, future business networks ..more than most other clubs.

It's not unreasonable to expect him to land a big fish or two.


Assets.

2015 salary cap full. Finished last.

Menzel - gone
Bell - gone
Yarran - gone
Henderson - struggled to get a game all year
Gibbs - SANFL player
Tuohy - only asset still worth anything

No priority picks
No academy players of any value

Like people have said. SOS has had his flaws, but he has done a job with a pigs ear 2015 list and salary cap situation.

Lachie Neale aside, big fish have generally stayed or gone to a team up the ladder. Not many head to the bottom 4 teams.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:41 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 17153
Location: threeohfivethree
17th Premiership wrote:
I would love to get Coniglio.
However, I also don’t want to sell the farm to get him.

Big fish recruits are overrated. I’m not sure I can remember a recent example where a big fish has delivered a flag.
Buddy to the Swans?
Dangerfield to Geelong?
And these were already top teams...
Stringer AND Shiel to the Bombers?
Treloar and Adams to the Pies?
Judd for us?
The closest would be Tom Boyd to the Dogs.
Maybe this year the Tigers will win with Lynch. Maybe.

On the other hand, I can think of a few teams who lost a big fish and then won a flag...
Buddy left the Hawks
Ablett left Geelong
Deledio left the Tigers

The point is that a big fish isn’t necessarily the answer.
And I certainly wouldn’t be judging SOS on this somewhat fickle aspect of the job!



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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:05 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:39 am
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Sidefx wrote:
Setterfield had nothing to do with the Shiel deal. It was completed before we were told no.

The question then is, Walsh or most likely finals this year?
Get back under your bridge

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:27 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am
Posts: 33829
Sidefx wrote:
The question then is, Walsh or most likely finals this year?



Image

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:31 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5465
kingkerna wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Setterfield had nothing to do with the Shiel deal. It was completed before we were told no.

The question then is, Walsh or most likely finals this year?
Get back under your bridge

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


The insight, ingenuity, the mind power.

I’m truly amazed. :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:31 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Posts: 5465
Wojee wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
The question then is, Walsh or most likely finals this year?



Image


:lol:

Someone gets it.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:55 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22935
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
Nah. If they pay Coniglio $2m, they won't be keeping Kelly, Green etc for long. There will be plenty falling out of the tree.
If he can't come as a RFA, I wouldn't bother. Get Papley and Ellis.
With Doc hopefully returning next year and Marchbank, possibly Williamson, we can push Walsh and SPS into the midfield rotation and possibly Setterfield. Play others like Ellis and O'Brien on the wings. Papley was very good in the midfield for Sydney earlier in the year as well.
Put another pre-season into Walsh and SPS and they'll take another big step forward.

Coniglio is a gun but not worth selling the farm for.


Totally agree.

My point is the GWS can do what Crows did the Dangerfield as FA to force a trade of picks/ player(s). Crows matched Geelong's offer forcing Geelong to trade for picks.

If Carlton didn't agree to send picks for Cogs (assuming he wanted to come to Carlton), then there would be a fire sale for Cogs to avoid losing Kelly, Green...and GWS would get picks/ players for him. Why wouldn't they? I'm sure it would be better than AFL's compensation, unles Gil and his corrupt Commission continue to interfere.

We wanted a mature mid to help out Cripps last year. Shiel was the target. We missed him.
Did we or Cripps really miss Shiel? I'd say not since Teague put our existing experienced bodies Ed and Murph in there next to Cripps.
Since then the kids have had another season and another preseason coming up to get up to speed. Walsh is already better than Shiel.

I want Papley for the reasons you make, plus some, Ellis because he is the mature experienced quality player at the right age, and versatlile to play HB or a wing.
If Williamson is right to play next year and steps into the role then that's a bonus. If we get Martin too....we have done extremely well to get players to fill an age group amiss on our list, plus they add quality.

Get Brad Crouch too and with the natural progress of SPS Walsh and Cuningham I expect this group, with Cripps Ed and Murphy to be tough to beat.

I also expect Fisher, Dow and OBrien to have a breakthrough year next year. Stocker could be anything under Andrew Russell, along with Setterfield in his 2nd year back from a knee.

If Cogs doesn't want to come to Carlton I say, like the Shiel experience, it may be a blessing in disguise and his loss.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:58 am 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 546
yes the big fish is our downfall,i thought after judd deal we learnt our lesson ,we have several needs to fill /1 quick hbf ,1 quick small fwd and strong quick mid


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:04 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 10:07 pm
Posts: 1984
bondiblue wrote:

My point is the GWS can do what Crows did the Dangerfield as FA to force a trade of picks/ player(s). Crows matched Geelong's offer forcing Geelong to trade for picks.



No, they can't.
We can only afford our offer because we have banked salary cap space (we're going way over the cap to be able to pay him our offer). Crows were able to get a trade for Dangerfield because Geelong were only paying him $800k, ie well below his market value.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:05 am 
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Bruce Doull
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jamespul65 wrote:
yes the big fish is our downfall,i thought after judd deal we learnt our lesson ,we have several needs to fill /1 quick hbf ,1 quick small fwd and strong quick mid

1 quick hbf = J.Martin
1 quick small fwd = Papley
strong quick mid = Cognilio

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 Post subject: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:13 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 3581
Donstuie wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
yes the big fish is our downfall,i thought after judd deal we learnt our lesson ,we have several needs to fill /1 quick hbf ,1 quick small fwd and strong quick mid

1 quick hbf = J.Martin
1 quick small fwd = Papley
strong quick mid = Cognilio


End up with Ellis!

I do actually think we’ll get some decent recruits. The back of house is in order, crowds are back, a coach who players seem to love, the time for players to jump is now.

Newman and McGovern was actually not bad last year in retrospect. McGovern started to look like what we wanted him to be all year against the Saints. Russell’s five week training block was the right call.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:17 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22935
Location: Bondi Beach
robertbb wrote:
I tend to agree. I'd also steer clear of Ellis - we don't need him.

My priorities would be Jack Martin and Tom Papley.


Steer clear is a bit rough rob.

If he is interested to come to Carlton I think that's great.
If he stops us from getting Cogs or the 2 you mention, the I would pass too.

If he's on our list, its pressure for spots and best player wins the spot.
If its a kid ahead of him, its only because the kid has progressed from 2019.

If he continues to be better in 2020 than the kids like Fisher, Dow, OBrien, Williamson, Stocker, Schmacher for wing HB spot,
or as a defensive forward is still ahead of Kennedy, Polson, Gibbons, DeLuca then what's the problem with that?

In 2020 Ellis might be ahead of Newman and simmo. If so, we have upgraded with Ellis.

I'm not desperate, but I would love to get him as a FA and we keep picks for Paps and Martin, Crouch and.....

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:20 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22935
Location: Bondi Beach
Rexy wrote:
Sorry but if SOS misses on Coniglio after missing on Sheil last year then his position should come under serious question.


Why?

Because the said players didn't want to come to Carlton.

He's SOS, not Carlton. Shouldn't mix the 2.

Cripps, Murph, Ed, Simmo and Doc should meet up with Cogs in a Coffee shop than fly him to Noosa to meet Matthison...unless Mathison has an offer after footy too hard to refuse. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:26 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22935
Location: Bondi Beach
Rexy wrote:
SOS has had a lot of assets to use ... salary cap space, draft picks, Andrew Russell, future business networks ..more than most other clubs.

It's not unreasonable to expect him to land a big fish or two.


Having said that, I think its time for you to list at least 2 Big Fish from each team that may be gettable/ or you expect SOS to get with the abovementioned assets, prior to Trade season and lets see and discuss the degree of difficulty, which may in fact answer your uestions, and after the Trade season see if SOS happens to snag one on your list. The we can discuss SOS.

Thus far we have a list which is the envy of the league, albeit young...in 2019.

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