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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:29 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5982
Fasolo’s role at the Pies last year was playing
Reserves
Let’s hope Shane McAdam turns out to be a spud at the Crows
Has done his calf
Prior to that was showing a lot of promise
If he turns out to be the new Eddie Betts
Then the McGovern trade would be the worst trade ever


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:34 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5982
aboynamedsue wrote:
keogh wrote:
All these players have been recruited from other clubs other than from TAC junior level under SOS's watch since he came to the club
Matthew Wright
Sam Kerridge
Jed Lamb
Andrew Phillips
Lachie Plowman
Liam Sumner
Andrew Gallucci
Matthew Korcheck
Alex Fasolo
Will Setterfield
Hugh Goddard
Matthew Owens
Billie Smedts
Caleb Marchbank
Jarrod Pickett
Rhys Palmer
Kym LeBois
Alex Silvangi
Matt Shaw
Mitch McGovern
Nic Newman
James Bugg
Ciaron Sheehan
Matthew Lobbe
Matthew Kennedy
Darcy Lang
Aaron Mullett
Jarrod Gartlett
Cameron O'Shea
Cillian McDaid
Michael Gibbons.


We drafted 22 players directly from the under 18s during that period; it’s not like we traded out of any of the drafts.

But let’s say we only went for nothing but TAC graduates in our rebuild - where do we get the number of draft picks needed? To replace the number of guys we delisted since 2015, we would’ve had to have taken about 6 kids each year in the pick #80-100 range. Imagine about a third of our list in 2019 being Finbar O’Dwyer, Caleb Tiller, Anthony Raso types. Remember each of those kids gets an automatic 2 years, unlike DFA or contracted players who you can recruit on 1 year deals (giving you more flexibility with list management).

Many of the names on your above list were DFAs, steak knives in other trades, or fire sale package deals. With the exception of Shaw, Mullett and O’Shea, I would say the rest of them were worth a punt as stopgaps while we built our list.

And of the ‘targeted’ players, McGovern is the only one I’d say we paid overs for. The rest were good value trades, IMO.

Oh - and Sheehan was recruited before SOS arrived and McDaid, Korcheck & Owies were/are categorised rookies (so we could not have used those rookie spots on TAC players).



Ross pick 43
Stack got for nothing really
Look better for the Tigers than nearly every player on our list


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:03 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
Tom Morris worked for Melbourne last year, got sacked because he wrote BS stories about divides in playing group etc


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:18 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:56 am
Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
emtwenty wrote:
Tom Morris worked for Melbourne last year, got sacked because he wrote BS stories about divides in playing group etc

I don't recall getting any of them.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:38 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17563
keogh wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
keogh wrote:
All these players have been recruited from other clubs other than from TAC junior level under SOS's watch since he came to the club
Matthew Wright
Sam Kerridge
Jed Lamb
Andrew Phillips
Lachie Plowman
Liam Sumner
Andrew Gallucci
Matthew Korcheck
Alex Fasolo
Will Setterfield
Hugh Goddard
Matthew Owens
Billie Smedts
Caleb Marchbank
Jarrod Pickett
Rhys Palmer
Kym LeBois
Alex Silvangi
Matt Shaw
Mitch McGovern
Nic Newman
James Bugg
Ciaron Sheehan
Matthew Lobbe
Matthew Kennedy
Darcy Lang
Aaron Mullett
Jarrod Gartlett
Cameron O'Shea
Cillian McDaid
Michael Gibbons.


We drafted 22 players directly from the under 18s during that period; it’s not like we traded out of any of the drafts.

But let’s say we only went for nothing but TAC graduates in our rebuild - where do we get the number of draft picks needed? To replace the number of guys we delisted since 2015, we would’ve had to have taken about 6 kids each year in the pick #80-100 range. Imagine about a third of our list in 2019 being Finbar O’Dwyer, Caleb Tiller, Anthony Raso types. Remember each of those kids gets an automatic 2 years, unlike DFA or contracted players who you can recruit on 1 year deals (giving you more flexibility with list management).

Many of the names on your above list were DFAs, steak knives in other trades, or fire sale package deals. With the exception of Shaw, Mullett and O’Shea, I would say the rest of them were worth a punt as stopgaps while we built our list.

And of the ‘targeted’ players, McGovern is the only one I’d say we paid overs for. The rest were good value trades, IMO.

Oh - and Sheehan was recruited before SOS arrived and McDaid, Korcheck & Owies were/are categorised rookies (so we could not have used those rookie spots on TAC players).



Ross pick 43
Stack got for nothing really
Look better for the Tigers than nearly every player on our list


Stack had heaps of off field issues. If we chose him and it turned to shit, I'm sure we wouldn't have heard a word about it from you. :grin:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:20 pm 
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Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5828
keogh wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
keogh wrote:
All these players have been recruited from other clubs other than from TAC junior level under SOS's watch since he came to the club
Matthew Wright
Sam Kerridge
Jed Lamb
Andrew Phillips
Lachie Plowman
Liam Sumner
Andrew Gallucci
Matthew Korcheck
Alex Fasolo
Will Setterfield
Hugh Goddard
Matthew Owens
Billie Smedts
Caleb Marchbank
Jarrod Pickett
Rhys Palmer
Kym LeBois
Alex Silvangi
Matt Shaw
Mitch McGovern
Nic Newman
James Bugg
Ciaron Sheehan
Matthew Lobbe
Matthew Kennedy
Darcy Lang
Aaron Mullett
Jarrod Gartlett
Cameron O'Shea
Cillian McDaid
Michael Gibbons.


We drafted 22 players directly from the under 18s during that period; it’s not like we traded out of any of the drafts.

But let’s say we only went for nothing but TAC graduates in our rebuild - where do we get the number of draft picks needed? To replace the number of guys we delisted since 2015, we would’ve had to have taken about 6 kids each year in the pick #80-100 range. Imagine about a third of our list in 2019 being Finbar O’Dwyer, Caleb Tiller, Anthony Raso types. Remember each of those kids gets an automatic 2 years, unlike DFA or contracted players who you can recruit on 1 year deals (giving you more flexibility with list management).

Many of the names on your above list were DFAs, steak knives in other trades, or fire sale package deals. With the exception of Shaw, Mullett and O’Shea, I would say the rest of them were worth a punt as stopgaps while we built our list.

And of the ‘targeted’ players, McGovern is the only one I’d say we paid overs for. The rest were good value trades, IMO.

Oh - and Sheehan was recruited before SOS arrived and McDaid, Korcheck & Owies were/are categorised rookies (so we could not have used those rookie spots on TAC players).



Ross pick 43
Stack got for nothing really
Look better for the Tigers than nearly every player on our list


I’m not sure what your point is. Your original post suggested SOS should have only drafted TAC players during this rebuild.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:47 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5982
Ross and Stack look 2 good players to me that
Bring the intangibles needed to be a good AFL footballer

SOs missed these blokes when he could have used those picks to get these blokes
Or other good kids
Instead he used them on McGovern Setterfield his son Newman and O’Dwyerc

I understand because of the rules and the shocking state of the list when
he arrived he couldn’t just pick kids given the number of spuds on the list at that time but he has gone for too many blokes from
other AFL clubs who are average
They clutter the list up
When the team goes bad the head coach cops it in the head
The recruiting is the problem IMO

SOS simply isn’t as good at recognizing talent
compared to other recruiters

SOS and Brodie seem obsessed in getting blokes
From GWS
His 2 sons are at the club
Even O’Dwyer is from the private school the Silvangis went to

They don’t seem to look too far from their home when looking for talent
What’s their strategy for overseeing the
WAFL
SANFL
Top End
Tassie
The Geelong League
Brodie is the National Recruiting Manager
How does he cover these competitions

It seems to me that they don’t have it together

I was appalled at what they did in last years draft
Because of what he has done Bolton hasn’t a lot to work with


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:07 pm 
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Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5828
keogh wrote:
Ross and Stack look 2 good players to me that
Bring the intangibles needed to be a good AFL footballer

SOs missed these blokes when he could have used those picks to get these blokes
Or other good kids
Instead he used them on McGovern Setterfield his son Newman and O’Dwyerc

I understand because of the rules and the shocking state of the list when
he arrived he couldn’t just pick kids given the number of spuds on the list at that time but he has gone for too many blokes from
other AFL clubs who are average
They clutter the list up
When the team goes bad the head coach cops it in the head
The recruiting is the problem IMO

SOS simply isn’t as good at recognizing talent
compared to other recruiters

SOS and Brodie seem obsessed in getting blokes
From GWS
His 2 sons are at the club
Even O’Dwyer is from the private school the Silvangis went to

They don’t seem to look too far from their home when looking for talent
What’s their strategy for overseeing the
WAFL
SANFL
Top End
Tassie
The Geelong League
Brodie is the National Recruiting Manager
How does he cover these competitions

It seems to me that they don’t have it together

I was appalled at what they did in last years draft
Because of what he has done Bolton hasn’t a lot to work with


Personally, I’ve been happy with what we’ve done at the trade and ND tables since SOS took over. I’ve been a little mystified at some of our DFA, PSD & rookie selections, but overall I reckon SOS has done a good job turning the list over since end of 2015.

Things haven’t gelled amongst the players for a variety of reasons (lack of synergy caused by massive player turnover, injuries, on-field leadership gap, playing too many kids in key roles before they are ready to play consistently well, jury still out on game style, coaching etc); I don’t agree it’s because of our recruitment. Overall, I reckon SOS has delivered on his mandate.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:00 pm 
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Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10073
aboynamedsue wrote:
Personally, I’ve been happy with what we’ve done at the trade and ND tables since SOS took over. I’ve been a little mystified at some of our DFA, PSD & rookie selections, but overall I reckon SOS has done a good job turning the list over since end of 2015.

Things haven’t gelled amongst the players for a variety of reasons (lack of synergy caused by massive player turnover, injuries, on-field leadership gap, playing too many kids in key roles before they are ready to play consistently well, jury still out on game style, coaching etc); I don’t agree it’s because of our recruitment. Overall, I reckon SOS has delivered on his mandate.


:clap: Perfectly summarised.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:36 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:28 pm
Posts: 4513
SurreyBlue wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Personally, I’ve been happy with what we’ve done at the trade and ND tables since SOS took over. I’ve been a little mystified at some of our DFA, PSD & rookie selections, but overall I reckon SOS has done a good job turning the list over since end of 2015.

Things haven’t gelled amongst the players for a variety of reasons (lack of synergy caused by massive player turnover, injuries, on-field leadership gap, playing too many kids in key roles before they are ready to play consistently well, jury still out on game style, coaching etc); I don’t agree it’s because of our recruitment. Overall, I reckon SOS has delivered on his mandate.


:clap: Perfectly summarised.


X 2

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:56 am
Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
keogh wrote:
Ross and Stack look 2 good players to me that
Bring the intangibles needed to be a good AFL footballer

SOs missed these blokes when he could have used those picks to get these blokes
Or other good kids
Instead he used them on McGovern Setterfield his son Newman and O’Dwyerc

I understand because of the rules and the shocking state of the list when
he arrived he couldn’t just pick kids given the number of spuds on the list at that time but he has gone for too many blokes from
other AFL clubs who are average
They clutter the list up
When the team goes bad the head coach cops it in the head
The recruiting is the problem IMO

SOS simply isn’t as good at recognizing talent
compared to other recruiters

SOS and Brodie seem obsessed in getting blokes
From GWS
His 2 sons are at the club
Even O’Dwyer is from the private school the Silvangis went to

They don’t seem to look too far from their home when looking for talent
What’s their strategy for overseeing the
WAFL
SANFL
Top End
Tassie
The Geelong League
Brodie is the National Recruiting Manager
How does he cover these competitions

It seems to me that they don’t have it together

I was appalled at what they did in last years draft
Because of what he has done Bolton hasn’t a lot to work with

We have Newman Silvagni at the club? :razz:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:45 am 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:
Ross and Stack look 2 good players to me that
Bring the intangibles needed to be a good AFL footballer

SOs missed these blokes when he could have used those picks to get these blokes
Or other good kids
Instead he used them on McGovern Setterfield his son Newman and O’Dwyerc

I understand because of the rules and the shocking state of the list when
he arrived he couldn’t just pick kids given the number of spuds on the list at that time but he has gone for too many blokes from
other AFL clubs who are average
They clutter the list up
When the team goes bad the head coach cops it in the head
The recruiting is the problem IMO

SOS simply isn’t as good at recognizing talent
compared to other recruiters


SOS and Brodie seem obsessed in getting blokes
From GWS
His 2 sons are at the club
Even O’Dwyer is from the private school the Silvangis went to


They don’t seem to look too far from their home when looking for talent
What’s their strategy for overseeing the
WAFL
SANFL
Top End
Tassie
The Geelong League
Brodie is the National Recruiting Manager
How does he cover these competitions

It seems to me that they don’t have it together

I was appalled at what they did in last years draft
Because of what he has done Bolton hasn’t a lot to work with


I'm sick of all the Carlton bashers.
I'm sick of their sickness: bias and anti Carlton.
Lloyd, Robbo, Whately, Caro...now you...

IMO, you are seriously sick keogh
You are obsessed with SOS.
You haven't got a balanced argument. Its all full on attack attack attack SOS, The Board...generally everything Carlton is doing. I don't see anything pro Carlton from you, when there's plenty to acknowledge...even SOS.

Get your facts right.
SOS stayed out of the selection of his sons.
Brodie wasn't around when Jack was selected.
That is purely awful what you say.

I don't know any Carlton supporter who wouldn't want Carlton to make space for the Silvagni name on our list. Are you really disappointed Jack and Ben are on our lists for picks 53 and 70 odd? or Did you expect Carlton to select them?

Talk about looking in the rear view mirror.
Get a grip with today. What we have, not what we haven't.

All clubs, not just Carlton, don't have Stack Back and Crack on their list.
It is normal not to have every player some supporters want on their list.
It is normal for that to happen.

There's a million reasons why some players are overlooked.
No recruitment team knows every player. None.

What makes you think you're a better recruiter and judge than SOS?
That's egotistical and out of order...all the above statements you make.
They're unfounded accusations.

Late picks are a punt.
Finbar may surprise.
I didnt want the likes of Brendan Goddard bringing his own issues to the club.
Ditto Smack. There's lots of those types.

You have a go at SOS because he didn't do what you wanted.
Grab your toys and just go. This obsession is seriously sick.
Try an avoid not thinking of SOS. It will do you wonders.

SOS and his family will be part of the fabric of this club longer than you will.
They are all welcome and expected.

I didn't realise till now you are obviously a SOS basher.
A bit pf balance please. He has made selections we all like, even you.

Watch HIS list do wonderful things.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:46 am 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
Humpers wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Personally, I’ve been happy with what we’ve done at the trade and ND tables since SOS took over. I’ve been a little mystified at some of our DFA, PSD & rookie selections, but overall I reckon SOS has done a good job turning the list over since end of 2015.

Things haven’t gelled amongst the players for a variety of reasons (lack of synergy caused by massive player turnover, injuries, on-field leadership gap, playing too many kids in key roles before they are ready to play consistently well, jury still out on game style, coaching etc); I don’t agree it’s because of our recruitment. Overall, I reckon SOS has delivered on his mandate.


:clap: Perfectly summarised.


X 2


X3

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:01 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:56 am
Posts: 19501
Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
bondiblue wrote:
Humpers wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Personally, I’ve been happy with what we’ve done at the trade and ND tables since SOS took over. I’ve been a little mystified at some of our DFA, PSD & rookie selections, but overall I reckon SOS has done a good job turning the list over since end of 2015.

Things haven’t gelled amongst the players for a variety of reasons (lack of synergy caused by massive player turnover, injuries, on-field leadership gap, playing too many kids in key roles before they are ready to play consistently well, jury still out on game style, coaching etc); I don’t agree it’s because of our recruitment. Overall, I reckon SOS has delivered on his mandate.


:clap: Perfectly summarised.


X 2


X3

I'm in as well.
Hard decisions to trade out players like Gibbs but we got two for one and three for two. You can't trade lead and expect gold. You have to trade gold and get two silvers and a bronze.
My problem isn't with SOS.
I'm just a bitter old man.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:06 am 
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Rod Ashman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:19 am
Posts: 2087
Location: Melbourne
We so need to win the next three games. :smoking: :smoking: :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:35 am 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24301
Location: Kaloyasena
keogh wrote:
Ross and Stack look 2 good players to me that
Bring the intangibles needed to be a good AFL footballer

SOs missed these blokes when he could have used those picks to get these blokes
Or other good kids
Instead he used them on McGovern Setterfield his son Newman and O’Dwyerc

I understand because of the rules and the shocking state of the list when
he arrived he couldn’t just pick kids given the number of spuds on the list at that time but he has gone for too many blokes from
other AFL clubs who are average
They clutter the list up
When the team goes bad the head coach cops it in the head
The recruiting is the problem IMO

SOS simply isn’t as good at recognizing talent
compared to other recruiters

SOS and Brodie seem obsessed in getting blokes
From GWS
His 2 sons are at the club
Even O’Dwyer is from the private school the Silvangis went to

They don’t seem to look too far from their home when looking for talent
What’s their strategy for overseeing the
WAFL
SANFL
Top End
Tassie
The Geelong League
Brodie is the National Recruiting Manager
How does he cover these competitions

It seems to me that they don’t have it together

I was appalled at what they did in last years draft
Because of what he has done Bolton hasn’t a lot to work with





Brodie could tell you where to find the best pies in Australia and which takeaways don’t charge for extra sachets of sauce, but beyond that.......

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:10 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5982
I’m entitled to an opinion
Don’t read my posts if it pisses you off so much

I watch heaps of footy
Where miles off it

Just read what you want to read


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 Post subject: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:16 pm 
Offline
Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8247
Location: Australia
keogh wrote:
I’m entitled to an opinion
Don’t read my posts if it pisses you off so much

I watch heaps of footy
Where miles off it

Just read what you want to read


Where?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:22 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:35 pm
Posts: 1233
keogh wrote:
I’m entitled to an opinion
Don’t read my posts if it pisses you off so much

I watch heaps of footy
Where miles off it

Just read what you want to read


Some of your points are reasonable, but so many aren't balanced and you come across with an incredible bias.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2019
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:17 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm
Posts: 2251
sinbagger wrote:
keogh wrote:
I’m entitled to an opinion
Don’t read my posts if it pisses you off so much

I watch heaps of footy
Where miles off it

Just read what you want to read


Where?


yep. as a teacher he was miles off it


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