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| R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36324 |
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| Author: | moshe25 [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
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| Author: | Sidefx [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
jim wrote: Steve_C7 wrote: jim wrote: That was a game that showed how bad our coaching is. After 3 years our system of moving the ball going forward is the worst I've seen anywhere. Our players have ability for sure but are being let down by that. Other sides go forward with a structure that can often open other sides up, we have no idea. That cost a quite a decent win. Instead another loss to an ordinary side. One of the most frustrating defeats I've come across. Loved the competitiveness but we want more than that after 3 years. Enough is enough! Bet a decent coach could sort alot of that in a preseason. They love the ability at their disposal. Not even half our players have been on the list 3 years ago, and only 12 players yesterday have been on the list back then. Of those 12 players, 5 have played less than 25 games at the start of the season and have had interrupted seasons and not participated in all training drills. You are asking an awful lot from a coach that has more players come through the door than any other team, never had his best team play together and has lost experienced players through trade and injuries. We still had a pretty decent side in there, one that is better than 3 wins from 31 games. What you say might be valid if it was year 1 or even 2 but by year 3 we should have an on-field system and structure in place. After 3 years we still have no clue how to move the ball into the F50 hence still kick 7.7. Injuries don't excuse that. Alot of sides with injuries this year who do that well albeit with a bit more depth. That was a few goal win lost because we are so poorly drilled. After 3 years it's not harsh. Explain Adelaide's year then? They want from top of the ladder last year to 12th this year, their coaching must be woeful going by your theories. |
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| Author: | Sydney Blue [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
Sidefx wrote: jim wrote: Steve_C7 wrote: jim wrote: That was a game that showed how bad our coaching is. After 3 years our system of moving the ball going forward is the worst I've seen anywhere. Our players have ability for sure but are being let down by that. Other sides go forward with a structure that can often open other sides up, we have no idea. That cost a quite a decent win. Instead another loss to an ordinary side. One of the most frustrating defeats I've come across. Loved the competitiveness but we want more than that after 3 years. Enough is enough! Bet a decent coach could sort alot of that in a preseason. They love the ability at their disposal. Not even half our players have been on the list 3 years ago, and only 12 players yesterday have been on the list back then. Of those 12 players, 5 have played less than 25 games at the start of the season and have had interrupted seasons and not participated in all training drills. You are asking an awful lot from a coach that has more players come through the door than any other team, never had his best team play together and has lost experienced players through trade and injuries. We still had a pretty decent side in there, one that is better than 3 wins from 31 games. What you say might be valid if it was year 1 or even 2 but by year 3 we should have an on-field system and structure in place. After 3 years we still have no clue how to move the ball into the F50 hence still kick 7.7. Injuries don't excuse that. Alot of sides with injuries this year who do that well albeit with a bit more depth. That was a few goal win lost because we are so poorly drilled. After 3 years it's not harsh. Explain Adelaide's year then? They want from top of the ladder last year to 12th this year, their coaching must be woeful going by your theories. Adelaide fell 11 places therefore despite winning half their games their coach is worse than ours I will give you the drum the only reason we didn't fall further than 11 places because there was no else to fall we had hit the bottom |
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| Author: | bluechampion [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
Beveridge quite rightly pointed out that it was his players that have played between 100 - 150 games that stepped up and got them the win. We had exactly one player on the field who falls into that games category: Ed Curnow (142) |
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| Author: | dannyboy [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
Yes but if Bolts was a good coach bluechampion he would get them to those games quicker.... |
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| Author: | Steve_C7 [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
jim wrote: Steve_C7 wrote: jim wrote: That was a game that showed how bad our coaching is. After 3 years our system of moving the ball going forward is the worst I've seen anywhere. Our players have ability for sure but are being let down by that. Other sides go forward with a structure that can often open other sides up, we have no idea. That cost a quite a decent win. Instead another loss to an ordinary side. One of the most frustrating defeats I've come across. Loved the competitiveness but we want more than that after 3 years. Enough is enough! Bet a decent coach could sort alot of that in a preseason. They love the ability at their disposal. Not even half our players have been on the list 3 years ago, and only 12 players yesterday have been on the list back then. Of those 12 players, 5 have played less than 25 games at the start of the season and have had interrupted seasons and not participated in all training drills. You are asking an awful lot from a coach that has more players come through the door than any other team, never had his best team play together and has lost experienced players through trade and injuries. We still had a pretty decent side in there, one that is better than 3 wins from 31 games. What you say might be valid if it was year 1 or even 2 but by year 3 we should have an on-field system and structure in place. After 3 years we still have no clue how to move the ball into the F50 hence still kick 7.7. Injuries don't excuse that. Alot of sides with injuries this year who do that well albeit with a bit more depth. That was a few goal win lost because we are so poorly drilled. After 3 years it's not harsh. Please read my post again, it's NOT 3 years for this group. only 7 players have been on the list and played enough games to be judged on their understanding of the game plan. That's only a third of the player out there so you are completely wrong to be banging on about 3 years. |
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| Author: | Sidefx [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
Sydney Blue wrote: Sidefx wrote: jim wrote: Steve_C7 wrote: jim wrote: That was a game that showed how bad our coaching is. After 3 years our system of moving the ball going forward is the worst I've seen anywhere. Our players have ability for sure but are being let down by that. Other sides go forward with a structure that can often open other sides up, we have no idea. That cost a quite a decent win. Instead another loss to an ordinary side. One of the most frustrating defeats I've come across. Loved the competitiveness but we want more than that after 3 years. Enough is enough! Bet a decent coach could sort alot of that in a preseason. They love the ability at their disposal. Not even half our players have been on the list 3 years ago, and only 12 players yesterday have been on the list back then. Of those 12 players, 5 have played less than 25 games at the start of the season and have had interrupted seasons and not participated in all training drills. You are asking an awful lot from a coach that has more players come through the door than any other team, never had his best team play together and has lost experienced players through trade and injuries. We still had a pretty decent side in there, one that is better than 3 wins from 31 games. What you say might be valid if it was year 1 or even 2 but by year 3 we should have an on-field system and structure in place. After 3 years we still have no clue how to move the ball into the F50 hence still kick 7.7. Injuries don't excuse that. Alot of sides with injuries this year who do that well albeit with a bit more depth. That was a few goal win lost because we are so poorly drilled. After 3 years it's not harsh. Explain Adelaide's year then? They want from top of the ladder last year to 12th this year, their coaching must be woeful going by your theories. Adelaide fell 11 places therefore despite winning half their games their coach is worse than ours I will give you the drum the only reason we didn't fall further than 11 places because there was no else to fall we had hit the bottom WOW..........the insight! Thank you. |
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| Author: | Sidefx [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
dannyboy wrote: Yes but if Bolts was a good coach bluechampion he would get them to those games quicker.... 
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| Author: | Sidefx [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
Sorry, but this whole "judging" Bolts on a year like this and with the list we have is utter lunacy but extremely entertaining to say the least. |
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| Author: | Bookie [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
Wow Jed Lamb fined for his hit to the back on Botemsmelli. The Carlton tax. |
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| Author: | Rexy [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
Fine is fair enough and if Bont struck him first he should be fined/suspended too. |
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| Author: | GreatEx [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
99prelim wrote: GreatEx wrote: 99prelim wrote: SPS thinks that belonging is an entitlement Where do you get that from? Hasn't been dropped, therefore must have a sense of entitlement? Seems a stretch. It's an opinion I have. Has had two interrupted preseasons yet never been dropped, despite blocks of poor games Now that I'm on a PC I should be able to reply without losing everything on submit.  My take on this is that, having watched Harry get dropped despite his obvious talent, Silvagni being dropped despite his dad, and Pickett being dropped despite our desperate need for pace and/or small forwards, it stands to reason that no one is receiving any special favours, nor are players necessarily punished for mistakes or rewarded for good moments or stats. What it suggests to me is that players who work hard, take on board the messages from the coaches and look after their bodies are the players who keep their place in the team. I believe SPS must be fulfilling the demands of Bolton and co. to have achieved his 100% selection rate this season. We should be celebrating that, rather than accusing him of complacency/sense of entitlement, or searching for ulterior motives. |
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| Author: | 99prelim [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
GreatEx wrote: 99prelim wrote: GreatEx wrote: 99prelim wrote: SPS thinks that belonging is an entitlement Where do you get that from? Hasn't been dropped, therefore must have a sense of entitlement? Seems a stretch. It's an opinion I have. Has had two interrupted preseasons yet never been dropped, despite blocks of poor games Now that I'm on a PC I should be able to reply without losing everything on submit. My take on this is that, having watched Harry get dropped despite his obvious talent, Silvagni being dropped despite his dad, and Pickett being dropped despite our desperate need for pace and/or small forwards, it stands to reason that no one is receiving any special favours, nor are players necessarily punished for mistakes or rewarded for good moments or stats. What it suggests to me is that players who work hard, take on board the messages from the coaches and look after their bodies are the players who keep their place in the team. I believe SPS must be fulfilling the demands of Bolton and co. to have achieved his 100% selection rate this season. We should be celebrating that, rather than accusing him of complacency/sense of entitlement, or searching for ulterior motives. Unless you know this as fact, you're just speculating I'm happy to be on my own here...SPS has not deserved to to have played 2 seasons without being dropped. His output has been mediocre in 70% of his 40 odd games |
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| Author: | Crippa [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
99prelim wrote: GreatEx wrote: 99prelim wrote: GreatEx wrote: 99prelim wrote: SPS thinks that belonging is an entitlement Where do you get that from? Hasn't been dropped, therefore must have a sense of entitlement? Seems a stretch. It's an opinion I have. Has had two interrupted preseasons yet never been dropped, despite blocks of poor games Now that I'm on a PC I should be able to reply without losing everything on submit. My take on this is that, having watched Harry get dropped despite his obvious talent, Silvagni being dropped despite his dad, and Pickett being dropped despite our desperate need for pace and/or small forwards, it stands to reason that no one is receiving any special favours, nor are players necessarily punished for mistakes or rewarded for good moments or stats. What it suggests to me is that players who work hard, take on board the messages from the coaches and look after their bodies are the players who keep their place in the team. I believe SPS must be fulfilling the demands of Bolton and co. to have achieved his 100% selection rate this season. We should be celebrating that, rather than accusing him of complacency/sense of entitlement, or searching for ulterior motives. Unless you know this as fact, you're just speculating I'm happy to be on my own here...SPS has not deserved to to have played 2 seasons without being dropped. His output has been mediocre in 70% of his 40 odd games GreatEx making tonnes of sense to me.  I'd say SPS has been better than everybody else in the reserves who plays his position in 100% of his 40 odd games. Name a better Carlton listed player who plays the same position/role in the current Northern Blues team 99prelim? Who should SPS be dropped for? |
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| Author: | Sydney Blue [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
I think SPS management by the club is one thing they are getting right Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Sin City [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
Looked to me like SPS was playing as a defensive forward on JJ. Was never gonna get the same stats as the previous few weeks in the midfield. Tough gig given the firm Johannison has been in lately. |
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| Author: | frank dardew [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
I’m still a big fan of SPS and second part of the year I think will really did his development struggled early but improved halfway through season Played barious roles and that will also help development Still reckon he has a very high ceiling Looking forward to further development over pre season and next year |
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| Author: | Steve_C7 [ Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
I think that SPS is one of those players that see the field and when he gains enough confidence and the coach opens up play more, then he will be one of those players that kick that risky 45 degree kick that opens the play and really gives our forwards a good scoring opportunity. It looks to me that due to the decimation of our backline that players have been instructed not to move the ball forward until the defensive structures are setup. Problem is that even when we do this we butcher the kick and get opened up just the same. |
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| Author: | The Normal One [ Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
Crippa wrote: 99prelim wrote: GreatEx wrote: 99prelim wrote: GreatEx wrote: [quote="99prelim"] SPS thinks that belonging is an entitlement Where do you get that from? Hasn't been dropped, therefore must have a sense of entitlement? Seems a stretch. It's an opinion I have. Has had two interrupted preseasons yet never been dropped, despite blocks of poor games Now that I'm on a PC I should be able to reply without losing everything on submit. My take on this is that, having watched Harry get dropped despite his obvious talent, Silvagni being dropped despite his dad, and Pickett being dropped despite our desperate need for pace and/or small forwards, it stands to reason that no one is receiving any special favours, nor are players necessarily punished for mistakes or rewarded for good moments or stats. What it suggests to me is that players who work hard, take on board the messages from the coaches and look after their bodies are the players who keep their place in the team. I believe SPS must be fulfilling the demands of Bolton and co. to have achieved his 100% selection rate this season. We should be celebrating that, rather than accusing him of complacency/sense of entitlement, or searching for ulterior motives. Unless you know this as fact, you're just speculating I'm happy to be on my own here...SPS has not deserved to to have played 2 seasons without being dropped. His output has been mediocre in 70% of his 40 odd games GreatEx making tonnes of sense to me. I'd say SPS has been better than everybody else in the reserves who plays his position in 100% of his 40 odd games. Name a better Carlton listed player who plays the same position/role in the current Northern Blues team 99prelim? Who should SPS be dropped for?[/quote] Exactly. |
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| Author: | Effes [ Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: R22: Carlton Vs Western Bulldogs (Post Match discussion) |
Patrick Keane @AFL_PKeane 48s48 seconds ago AFL Tribunal will sit at 5pm tonight, 21/8. Jed Lamb contesting his striking charge, against MBontempelli. All other rd22 sanctions accepted. |
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