TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Post 1995 best 22

I was just working through an exercise of putting together our best 22 recruited post our last premiership. In doing the exercise I left out players from the last 2 years on the basis of lack of longevity, although I included Corey McKernan based on only 2 years given his B&F/leading goalkicker double in his first year at the club. I only considered the players career at Carlton, so for example Sam Jacobs was overlooked. I also went with the single ruckman with a forward who could ruck as back-up. If picking a second specialist ruck I would have gone Barnaby French who is really the only other ruckman to have established himself in the team for any length of time.

This is what I came up with:

Kade Simpson Michael Jamison Bret Thornton
Sam Docherty Jarrad Waite Heath Scotland
Nick Stevens Patrick Cripps Ryan Houlihan
Bryce Gibbs Lance Whitnall Charlie Curnow
Corey McKernan Brendan Fevola Eddie Betts
Matthew Kreuzer Chris Judd Mark Murphy
Andrew Carrazzo Lachie Henderson Matthew Lappin Andrew Walker

Notably there is not one player there recruited to the club as a key backman in the National Draft (Jamison and Thornton being rookied). But frankly the cupboard was bare. Given that Weitering, Plowman and Marchbank were in the draft year before last and so excluded, this is the list of others recruited as primarily key backs:

Ben Sexton, Stephen O'Reilly, Luke Livingston, Mick Martyn, Kris Massie, Jason Sadington, Murray Vance, Karl Norman, Paul Bower, Mark Austin, Matthew Watson, and Patrick McCarthy. Not much there!

Matthew Allan was a pretty fair ruckman at his best. That far in front of Bananarby it's not funny... better than Kreuzer too IMO.

For what it is worth -Carltons All-Australian players post 95 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Australian_team)

1996-Silvagni, Sexton
1997-SIlvagni, Sexton, Bradley
1999-Silvagni, McKay, Allan
2000-McKay, Ratten, Camporeale,
2004-Lappin
2006-Fevola
2008-Fevola, Judd
2009-Fevola, Judd
2010-Judd
2011-Murphy, Judd
2017-Docherty

I'm hopeless at these lists but I would definitely have Tuohy in for Thornton (and then swapping positions with Scotland). Move Walker into the forward pocket in place of McKernan and give his spot on the bench to Ed Curnow or Yarran.

The_Cranium wrote:

Matthew Allan was a pretty fair ruckman at his best. That far in front of Bananarby it's not funny... better than Kreuzer too IMO.

I love Big Kreuz but I agree. Matt Allan has easily been our best ruck over the past 20 odd years.

Ethos wrote:

Was just thinking the same things:

http://www.blueseum.org/All+Australian

Gibbs never an AA....?

Author:	ianh [ Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Post 1995 best 22
I was just working through an exercise of putting together our best 22 recruited post our last premiership. In doing the exercise I left out players from the last 2 years on the basis of lack of longevity, although I included Corey McKernan based on only 2 years given his B&F/leading goalkicker double in his first year at the club. I only considered the players career at Carlton, so for example Sam Jacobs was overlooked. I also went with the single ruckman with a forward who could ruck as back-up. If picking a second specialist ruck I would have gone Barnaby French who is really the only other ruckman to have established himself in the team for any length of time. This is what I came up with: Kade Simpson Michael Jamison Bret Thornton Sam Docherty Jarrad Waite Heath Scotland Nick Stevens Patrick Cripps Ryan Houlihan Bryce Gibbs Lance Whitnall Charlie Curnow Corey McKernan Brendan Fevola Eddie Betts Matthew Kreuzer Chris Judd Mark Murphy Andrew Carrazzo Lachie Henderson Matthew Lappin Andrew Walker Notably there is not one player there recruited to the club as a key backman in the National Draft (Jamison and Thornton being rookied). But frankly the cupboard was bare. Given that Weitering, Plowman and Marchbank were in the draft year before last and so excluded, this is the list of others recruited as primarily key backs: Ben Sexton, Stephen O'Reilly, Luke Livingston, Mick Martyn, Kris Massie, Jason Sadington, Murray Vance, Karl Norman, Paul Bower, Mark Austin, Matthew Watson, and Patrick McCarthy. Not much there!

Author:	Rexy [ Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
ianh wrote: I was just working through an exercise of putting together our best 22 recruited post our last premiership. In doing the exercise I left out players from the last 2 years on the basis of lack of longevity, although I included Corey McKernan based on only 2 years given his B&F/leading goalkicker double in his first year at the club. I only considered the players career at Carlton, so for example Sam Jacobs was overlooked. I also went with the single ruckman with a forward who could ruck as back-up. If picking a second specialist ruck I would have gone Barnaby French who is really the only other ruckman to have established himself in the team for any length of time. This is what I came up with: Kade Simpson Michael Jamison Bret Thornton Sam Docherty Jarrad Waite Heath Scotland Nick Stevens Patrick Cripps Ryan Houlihan Bryce Gibbs Lance Whitnall Charlie Curnow Corey McKernan Brendan Fevola Eddie Betts Matthew Kreuzer Chris Judd Mark Murphy Andrew Carrazzo Lachie Henderson Matthew Lappin Andrew Walker Notably there is not one player there recruited to the club as a key backman in the National Draft (Jamison and Thornton being rookied). But frankly the cupboard was bare. Given that Weitering, Plowman and Marchbank were in the draft year before last and so excluded, this is the list of others recruited as primarily key backs: Ben Sexton, Stephen O'Reilly, Luke Livingston, Mick Martyn, Kris Massie, Jason Sadington, Murray Vance, Karl Norman, Paul Bower, Mark Austin, Matthew Watson, and Patrick McCarthy. Not much there! Some very talented players in that team. A shame the culture was so poor otherwise that team looks capable of a flag.

Author:	GreatEx [ Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
I'm hopeless at these lists but I would definitely have Tuohy in for Thornton (and then swapping positions with Scotland). Move Walker into the forward pocket in place of McKernan and give his spot on the bench to Ed Curnow or Yarran.

Author:	The_Cranium [ Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
Matthew Allan was a pretty fair ruckman at his best. That far in front of Bananarby it's not funny... better than Kreuzer too IMO.

Author:	rhino27 [ Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
The_Cranium wrote: Matthew Allan was a pretty fair ruckman at his best. That far in front of Bananarby it's not funny... better than Kreuzer too IMO. I love Big Kreuz but I agree. Matt Allan has easily been our best ruck over the past 20 odd years.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Post 1995 best 22 http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36290	Page 1 of 2

Author:	CK95 [ Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
Allan was recruited pre 95 though wasn't he?

Author:	AGRO [ Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
No love for Callan Beasy?

Author:	Fenwick Snap [ Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
Yes, Allan starred in 1994 while Harry must have been injured a lot or just waiting for his 95 renaissance. Memory's foggy. Allan had to wait for Harry to fade again after 95. Was great in 2000.

Author:	Navy Blue Horse [ Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
Thornton? frightening

Author:	CK95 [ Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
Who would be the coach?

Author:	Fenwick Snap [ Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
Many have asked that question over the years.

Author:	grrofunger [ Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
Backs 1. Jack Silvagni 23. Jacob Weitering 39. Dale Thomas Half-backs 38. Ciaran Byrne 22. Caleb Marchbank 6. Kade Simpson Centreline 3. Marc Murphy (C) 9. Patrick Cripps 4. Lochie O'Brien Half-forwards 33. Jarrod Pickett 30. Charlie Curnow 5. Sam Petrevski-Seton Forwards 16. Darcy Lang 10. Harry McKay 29. Cameron Polson Followers 27. Matthew Lobbe 35. Ed Curnow 2. Paddy Dow Interchange 7. Matthew Kennedy 13. Jed Lamb 46. Matthew Wright 17. Sam Rowe

Author:	Stefchook [ Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22

Author:	Ethos [ Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
For what it is worth -Carltons All-Australian players post 95 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Australian_team) 1996-Silvagni, Sexton 1997-SIlvagni, Sexton, Bradley 1999-Silvagni, McKay, Allan 2000-McKay, Ratten, Camporeale, 2004-Lappin 2006-Fevola 2008-Fevola, Judd 2009-Fevola, Judd 2010-Judd 2011-Murphy, Judd 2017-Docherty

Author:	Chitty's Finger [ Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
Respect the original parameters in your work ianh, and your posts more generally, but if you exclude people on the list in 1995 but not yet coming through as players you are excluding Allan who had a brilliant 1999, and to some extent Beaumont who whilst maligned by some played 150 games and some of those were very good.

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Author:	Chitty's Finger [ Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
Ethos wrote: For what it is worth -Carltons All-Australian players post 95 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Australian_team) 1996-Silvagni, Sexton 1997-SIlvagni, Sexton, Bradley 1999-Silvagni, McKay, Allan 2000-McKay, Ratten, Camporeale, 2004-Lappin 2006-Fevola 2008-Fevola, Judd 2009-Fevola, Judd 2010-Judd 2011-Murphy, Judd 2017-Docherty Was just thinking the same things: http://www.blueseum.org/All+Australian Gibbs never an AA....?

Author:	ianh [ Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
GreatEx wrote: I'm hopeless at these lists but I would definitely have Tuohy in for Thornton (and then swapping positions with Scotland). Move Walker into the forward pocket in place of McKernan and give his spot on the bench to Ed Curnow or Yarran. I tried to pick a "TEAM" as opposed to the best 22 players and then find them spots. Hence Thornton - who I think is harshly treated generally - as a KPD rather than a smaller defender. Likewise McKernan provides ruck relief the side would not have if he gets replaced by anyone other than a ruck or KP/ruck type. rhino27 wrote: The_Cranium wrote: Matthew Allan was a pretty fair ruckman at his best. That far in front of Bananarby it's not funny... better than Kreuzer too IMO. I love Big Kreuz but I agree. Matt Allan has easily been our best ruck over the past 20 odd years. Agree entirely, but the parameter I set was they had to be recruited since '95, ie not have been around when we last tasted premiership success. Matty debuted in '94. Same criteria knocks out all the AAs before Matty Lappin. What I took away from the exercise more than anything was how poor rucks and key defenders have been in that period.

Author:	Navy Blue Horse [ Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
Chitty's Finger wrote: Ethos wrote: For what it is worth -Carltons All-Australian players post 95 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Australian_team) 1996-Silvagni, Sexton 1997-SIlvagni, Sexton, Bradley 1999-Silvagni, McKay, Allan 2000-McKay, Ratten, Camporeale, 2004-Lappin 2006-Fevola 2008-Fevola, Judd 2009-Fevola, Judd 2010-Judd 2011-Murphy, Judd 2017-Docherty Was just thinking the same things: http://www.blueseum.org/All+Australian Gibbs never an AA....? tough for Gibbs with certain names pencilled in before a ball is bounced. the Selwoods, Martin's, Danger etc on reputation.

Author:	The_Cranium [ Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Post 1995 best 22
Ethos wrote: For what it is worth -Carltons All-Australian players post 95 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Australian_team) 1996-Silvagni, Sexton 1997-SIlvagni, Sexton, Bradley 1999-Silvagni, McKay, Allan 2000-McKay, Ratten, Camporeale, 2004-Lappin 2006-Fevola 2008-Fevola, Judd 2009-Fevola, Judd 2010-Judd 2011-Murphy, Judd 2017-Docherty Bloody hell... Kouta wasn't all Australian in 2000??? How the @#$%&! was that possible?