TalkingCarlton :: View topic - The psychology of support and the future enigma

I do play golf jenx, but have never taken it seriously, though I have taken up footy seriously this year, and like golf with yourself, it is everything frustrating, challenging and rewarding. Whilst I guess we are never as good as we want to be, the pursuit of improvement is solely in our hands though, is it not?

verbs wrote:

You have taken up playing footy seriously at age 31?! :shock:

Footy makes people happy for lots of different reasons and gives them an interest ..satisfies their need to congregate together in a tribal sense, compete with each other, rejoice with each other, share grief with other and be part of another family...could be there only family...it is like going to church....its just another form of interest that people can share as they pass through life together....like I said it makes people happy, satisfied and gives them purpose in some cases....
Its like you Verbs....you posted to get a response...get some attention...everyone likes to see a response to their offerings....you would be satisfied and happy...footy made you happy and satisfied your need to be listened to.....thats good and healthy stuff IMHO.....

But you want something else. you want a dissection -why? if all you want to do is sit in the moment and not worry about the things you cannot control - why are you interested in this?

Oh God I think I'm going to be ill :lol:

How wonderful of you. here's a start try not to be so patronising - might help enormously.

Elwood Blues1 wrote:

It's interesting you mention all the positive things about footy Elwood as my questions were not about the clearly identifiable, controlable aspects of footy, rather I am trying to understand what supporters find so fascinating and alluring about various aspects of footy which are completely out of their control.

Everyone can go along to games and choose to satisfy their need to congregate together in a tribal sense, compete with each other, rejoice with each other, share grief with each other and be part of another family...or they could choose not to. It's predominantly in their control and can determine how happy or otherwise they are. Footy, as I said has been around a long time, and will continue to and people have been exercising this choice for over 100 years.

I'm talking about something different, and am keen to get an idea of what it is about it that makes people happy.

Maybe humans essentially all control freaks?

dannyboy wrote:

Oh God I think I'm going to be ill :lol:

How wonderful of you. here's a start try not to be so patronising - might help enormously.

I can only be who I am danny.

Author:	verbs [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:	The psychology of support and the future enigma
I know it's almost impossible to have an indepth conversation about anything really on the internet, without it turning into some sort of slug fest, but hey, why not try? I am keenly interested in people's opinions on some things. Firstly, what do people think about the fact we spend so mch time, effort, energy and passion on something we have so little (if any) control over? What drives us to continually discuss what needs to be done - who should play, who should be dropped, who should be axed, what the coach's gameplan should be? Is it purely entertainment? or is it like talking about the government, whereby everyone has an opinion but everyone also knows there is little they can do to change anything? I have said in the past I watch footy for entertainment, and care little for what goes on outside my control. Much like watching a film, if I think the filmmaker could've done something different I may say so, but care little beyond that. The film itself is entertainment -- good or bad. If Clint Eastwood's next film is a flop, I don't spend hours thinking about how he could've made it better, I hope the next one is better, and if they continue to be bad, well maybe I won't watch any more Eastwood flicks. But with footy, we just keep on coming back for more. And more. So is it about being involved in a club? You pay your membership fees and join a club -- in this case Carlton. Wanting to be part of the club, we care how it is run. Being a member though doesn't then mean you have a say in the day-to-day operations of the club. It wouldn't be possible. Again, even as members, those things are out of our contol. Do you think this is the primary urge which drives us as supporters in wanting to have such a big say in what goes on? When I said I love watching Carlton, rain, hail or shine, I was told I should worry about the future. Why should I? What is there to worry about? There is only now. If someone tells me it's like superannuation, I disagree. It's nothing like superannuation. It is for the club, but not for me personally as I have no control over any of it. I only have control over what makes me happy. I chose, quite some time ago, never to worry about things I have no influence over. Never say never, but I'm at least giving it a go. So is it like religion? And all we have is faith? I comfortable about the future of the Carlton Football Club, because I know those in charge will and can do a better job than I ever would, much like Eastwood is a better film director than I ever will be. So like religion, once you have complete faith, nothing else matters? The psychology of being a footy fan, and the continual fretting about a future which is out of any of our hands, and the struggle to enjoy the today we have in front of us, is bloody interesting food for thought. If we were winning every week, I doubt I would be thinking about any of this, but we're not. Are we sacrificing today for a future that will never come?

Author:	molsey [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:10 pm ]
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Verbs, with a title like that I assumed it was a Tyrants post. I am therefore very disappointed. No offence!

Author:	verbs [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:13 pm ]
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Yes, well 8 word titles are quite rare. Gifted linguists such as Tyrant find them less challenging than I. The title took longer to construct than the post did.

Author:	jenx [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:54 pm ]
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Hey Verbs, Do you play golf? I do regularly and as much as I play and practise, improvement is a hard, hard slog. Sometimes I wonder if it's all worth it, I throw the odd club, let fly with a few obsceneties on the course etc etc because the game is so frustrating yet can be so rewarding. Why does golf have this effect on me? Because to me, the game is like a drug, the more I try and put it out of my mind, the more I think about it, the game consumes my thoughts. I accept I have more control over my golf game unlike the goings on at CFC but to the majority of posters here, following the Blues is an addiciton. And part of the addiction involves opinions, hypotheses, arguments, diatribes, fury, reflection, nostalgia etc. This is to a certain extent human nature in that our brains are constructed to react this way. Why do I put myself through these addictive and sometimes painful pastimes? Because when I/we ultimately reach the top of the mountain, I will derive that little bit of extra satisfaction reflecting on what I/we went through to reach the top. Seeing the blues win their next flag is equal to me reaching a single figure golf handicap. Oh yeah, we also need something to do with our spare time!

Author:	verbs [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:10 pm ]
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I do play golf jenx, but have never taken it seriously, though I have taken up footy seriously this year, and like golf with yourself, it is everything frustrating, challenging and rewarding. Whilst I guess we are never as good as we want to be, the pursuit of improvement is solely in our hands though, is it not? There is something addictive about being a footy fan, something just about all footy fans experience. I was thinking, is it because we have tasted success and we lust for more? But what of those who have never had their team win a premiership? They are just as addicted as us. I am sure most fans find a great deal of enjoyment in playing Judge Judy and Executioner when it comes to their footy side. But likewise, I am sure there must be more to it than just that -- something of that human nature you talk about.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	dannyboy [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:22 pm ]
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Verbs you miss the game by so much you might as well play watching the grass grow. Football is simply a chance to let loose. Its the Lions and the catholics but without so many dead bodies to dispose of. Yes you can find the tao and live in the moment and be safe and happy - but so what? Why go when it is cold or wet or you are about to cop a fifteen goal hiding - go see a film instead. To many football is a chance to let the emotions run free. We3 can hate and grow angry and love and exaulte and do allt hose emotional things day to day lives deny. We can be a crony, an underling, a dunny cleaner and barrack for the came club, deprive the same joy as a company executive - more we can bury their shithouse side in a final! Football is weekly winter karma, its 2 year old tantrums and its zen artistry rolled into a crunch, a mark or a passage of play. If you see it simply as entertainment then this game will die. As entertainment it can be lacking, and when it does why not move to another show? But if you take hold of a club, invest that club with all the passion you have to spare, if you let the club become part of who you are then it transcends entertainment and becomes mythology. It can fill us with lessons, with morals, with guidance. Now it can also do none of these things because football is individual, like all sport, in fact like everything I can think of, the importance it holds depends purely on the importance you invest it with. It can provide balance and release and joy and pain or not football has nothing to do with it we do. So some pour their hearts and souls, they rant and rave and begrudge and miss the poiunt and invest totally too much and ruin saturdays and mope on sundays and then watch a single kick from a single kid and smile for months. Kouta's one handed pick up lived with me for years, like Shakespeare it defined somethoing important and human. It also didn't if i chose not to let it. I chose to let it..

Author:	verbs [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:39 pm ]
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You really have missed the point of what I wrote danny. Though I'm not surprised. I have recognized all that in what I have said. And I'm not questioning any of it. I have done things those who don't follow football cannot even begin to understand, just so I can see the Blues play. Footy has been around for more than 100 years. I would bet you anything it will be around for another 100 years. I won't be. There is only now. And it's all those things you mention, and a million things more, which are what makes me love the Blues. Why should I sully those things with apprehension. Those things will never go away. That's what makes it entertainment. People experience the same thing watching films. reading books, going to the opera, theatre. Everyone is different. You haven't done a very good job of convincing me why I should forsake my happiness and enjoyment of footy. In fact, you actually given me more to take on board in loving every chance I have to see the Blues play -- today. Actually, what is your point? Your post addresses none of my questions, other than why we continually go back for more, which really was a no-brainer. It's about trying to get a deeper understanding of the psychology of being a supporter.

Author:	Wild Blue Yonder [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:02 pm ]
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At the moment I'm into masochism. And for the price of a season's ticket I get plenty of pain.

Author:	Elwood Blues1 [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:50 pm ]
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Footy makes people happy for lots of different reasons and gives them an interest ..satisfies their need to congregate together in a tribal sense, compete with each other, rejoice with each other, share grief with other and be part of another family...could be there only family...it is like going to church....its just another form of interest that people can share as they pass through life together....like I said it makes people happy, satisfied and gives them purpose in some cases.... Its like you Verbs....you posted to get a response...get some attention...everyone likes to see a response to their offerings....you would be satisfied and happy...footy made you happy and satisfied your need to be listened to.....thats good and healthy stuff IMHO.....

Author:	dannyboy [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:48 pm ]
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tis you who miss dear verbs. Where have you mentioned mythology/ Do you even know what i mean by that? It isn't a film nor is it a book or a piece of entertainment. Mythology isn't religion, it isn't being in 'the moment' it isn't leaving thing out of your control for others. Mythology sets paths for our lives, it tells us stories filled with truths even though they may be untrue. Football is a modern myth. It is more than entertainment, therefore we invest far more into it than we ever do with a film - even a great film. Football is live theatre for the masses. But you want something else. you want a dissection -why? if all you want to do is sit in the moment and not worry about the things you cannot control - why are you interested in this? Do you seek? Is something missing? Or have you an answer you are dying to tell? Please tell. You are so deep and intelligent and meaningful - relate it all for us. I think you Verbs and Carlton God both approach discussions with the same intent. Only Carlton God is truthful. Of course we all know we have no influence - it isn't about that. Its about participating. But you already know that. You know it all. So tell us. Whats the real answer?

Author:	Barney [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:54 pm ]
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verbs wrote: I do play golf jenx, but have never taken it seriously, though I have taken up footy seriously this year, and like golf with yourself, it is everything frustrating, challenging and rewarding. Whilst I guess we are never as good as we want to be, the pursuit of improvement is solely in our hands though, is it not? You have taken up playing footy seriously at age 31?!

Author:	HTP [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:38 pm ]
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Sport is the post-modern religion

Author:	verbs [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:45 pm ]
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Barney wrote: verbs wrote: I do play golf jenx, but have never taken it seriously, though I have taken up footy seriously this year, and like golf with yourself, it is everything frustrating, challenging and rewarding. Whilst I guess we are never as good as we want to be, the pursuit of improvement is solely in our hands though, is it not? You have taken up playing footy seriously at age 31?! Well I was 30 when I started.

Author:	verbs [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:00 pm ]
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Elwood Blues1 wrote: Footy makes people happy for lots of different reasons and gives them an interest ..satisfies their need to congregate together in a tribal sense, compete with each other, rejoice with each other, share grief with other and be part of another family...could be there only family...it is like going to church....its just another form of interest that people can share as they pass through life together....like I said it makes people happy, satisfied and gives them purpose in some cases.... Its like you Verbs....you posted to get a response...get some attention...everyone likes to see a response to their offerings....you would be satisfied and happy...footy made you happy and satisfied your need to be listened to.....thats good and healthy stuff IMHO..... It's interesting you mention all the positive things about footy Elwood as my questions were not about the clearly identifiable, controlable aspects of footy, rather I am trying to understand what supporters find so fascinating and alluring about various aspects of footy which are completely out of their control. Everyone can go along to games and choose to satisfy their need to congregate together in a tribal sense, compete with each other, rejoice with each other, share grief with each other and be part of another family...or they could choose not to. It's predominantly in their control and can determine how happy or otherwise they are. Footy, as I said has been around a long time, and will continue to and people have been exercising this choice for over 100 years. I'm talking about something different, and am keen to get an idea of what it is about it that makes people happy. Maybe humans essentially all control freaks?

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Author:	verbs [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:07 pm ]
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dannyboy wrote: But you want something else. you want a dissection -why? if all you want to do is sit in the moment and not worry about the things you cannot control - why are you interested in this? By understanding just a little about where others are coming from, you actually learn an awful lot about yourself. It's part of developing into a better person and a more rounded individual. It's about gaining respect for people with different philosophies and approaches to life, and letting go of the false perception that my opinion is the only one that matters.

Author:	dannyboy [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:15 pm ]
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Oh God I think I'm going to be ill How wonderful of you. here's a start try not to be so patronising - might help enormously.

Author:	verbs [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:18 pm ]
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dannyboy wrote: Oh God I think I'm going to be ill How wonderful of you. here's a start try not to be so patronising - might help enormously. I can only be who I am danny.

Author:	jenx [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:23 pm ]
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verbs wrote: Elwood Blues1 wrote: Footy makes people happy for lots of different reasons and gives them an interest ..satisfies their need to congregate together in a tribal sense, compete with each other, rejoice with each other, share grief with other and be part of another family...could be there only family...it is like going to church....its just another form of interest that people can share as they pass through life together....like I said it makes people happy, satisfied and gives them purpose in some cases.... Its like you Verbs....you posted to get a response...get some attention...everyone likes to see a response to their offerings....you would be satisfied and happy...footy made you happy and satisfied your need to be listened to.....thats good and healthy stuff IMHO..... It's interesting you mention all the positive things about footy Elwood as my questions were not about the clearly identifiable, controlable aspects of footy, rather I am trying to understand what supporters find so fascinating and alluring about various aspects of footy which are completely out of their control. Everyone can go along to games and choose to satisfy their need to congregate together in a tribal sense, compete with each other, rejoice with each other, share grief with each other and be part of another family...or they could choose not to. It's predominantly in their control and can determine how happy or otherwise they are. Footy, as I said has been around a long time, and will continue to and people have been exercising this choice for over 100 years. I'm talking about something different, and am keen to get an idea of what it is about it that makes people happy. Maybe humans essentially all control freaks? It's the old argument of nature/nurture. Our brains are an amalgamation of matter derived via the magic of childbirth and genetics. Footy is an obsession to many of us and I am an obsessive person and so is my father, although he couldn't care less for footy. This obsessiveness is a combination of genetics and the environment we are exposed to since childbirth. And yes, I'm sure I could be trained to be less obsessive through various psychological techniques or drugs but I choose not to. Did I also mention I'm obsessive about golf?!

Author:	bluehammer [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:25 pm ]
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My cat's name is Mittens

Author:	Jarusa [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:25 pm ]
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verbs wrote: dannyboy wrote: Oh God I think I'm going to be ill How wonderful of you. here's a start try not to be so patronising - might help enormously. I can only be who I am danny. Ok you two, dialectics at 30 paces.