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 Post subject: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:59 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1588
At the risk of coming across as a nervous nellie I've got to say I'm more than a little concerned over a few looming decisions.

1. Captaincy: With Cripps holding off signing on and Murphy putting in less than inspiring leadership from both a physical strength and on field body language intent perspective, and this concern is further reinforced after hearing Murphy talk about how he wants to keep leading this side, I worry Carlton might make the monumental error of not appointing Cripps captain, which IMO should happen very soon. I've been a Blues fan for many a decade and Cripps is as good a leader as I've ever seen. Making him captain is a dead set no brainer. The club should be offering him captaincy NOW. If they don't and he leaves then that'll be a complete disaster.

2. Trading Pick 1 for a number of inferior picks : lots of talk about maybe doing this, as there's a perception we lack depth so need as many picks as we can get. I don't mind trading 1 if we still get a high pick, IMO given the talent in this draft we must have a pick in the top half dozen. If we trade 1 for something outside that range, such as 8, I worry that pick might not get us a topline talent, which IMO is our no. 1 need. While I know there's no guarantee in the draft it nonetheless stands to reason the higher the pick the more chance you have of striking gold and IMO the top six this year are all striking talents (the two SA lads, the two Kings, Walsh and Smith) . If we forfeit the opportunity to get a topline talent it'll be another disaster. Regardless of injuries we are bottom with one win, we clearly need top end talent not B Graders.

3. Trading pick 1 for Shiel : he's a seriously good player and we need his type especially as he is a mid but IMO he is on the wrong side of 25 for our needs. I don't think we should be trading the only trump card we have for a player who potentially only has 5 years left. I'd rather a 23-24 year old high end mid than a 26 year old high end mid which Shiel will be next year. We are a long way off true success. We got Judd when he was 23-24 and he didn't bring us home the bacon though I know he tried. Let's not make the same mistake again with our only off season trump card. (Disclaimer : if the AFL wake up and give us pick 2 as a PP then by all means hand that over for Shiel).

The next 3-6 months loom as very very important for the club and I hope wise heads make good decisions. But I'm worried TBH.


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 Post subject: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:02 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 3877
Location: Singapore
I think it’s much worse than this, I’m worried the club will soon cease to exist. We are irrelevant to the competition in almost every way I imaginable.


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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:33 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:37 pm
Posts: 16449
Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
Paddycripps wrote:
At the risk of coming across as a nervous nellie I've got to say I'm more than a little concerned over a few looming decisions.

1. Captaincy: With Cripps holding off signing on and Murphy putting in less than inspiring leadership from both a physical strength and on field body language intent perspective, and this concern is further reinforced after hearing Murphy talk about how he wants to keep leading this side, I worry Carlton might make the monumental error of not appointing Cripps captain, which IMO should happen very soon. I've been a Blues fan for many a decade and Cripps is as good a leader as I've ever seen. Making him captain is a dead set no brainer. The club should be offering him captaincy NOW. If they don't and he leaves then that'll be a complete disaster.

2. Trading Pick 1 for a number of inferior picks : lots of talk about maybe doing this, as there's a perception we lack depth so need as many picks as we can get. I don't mind trading 1 if we still get a high pick, IMO given the talent in this draft we must have a pick in the top half dozen. If we trade 1 for something outside that range, such as 8, I worry that pick might not get us a topline talent, which IMO is our no. 1 need. While I know there's no guarantee in the draft it nonetheless stands to reason the higher the pick the more chance you have of striking gold and IMO the top six this year are all striking talents (the two SA lads, the two Kings, Walsh and Smith) . If we forfeit the opportunity to get a topline talent it'll be another disaster. Regardless of injuries we are bottom with one win, we clearly need top end talent not B Graders.

3. Trading pick 1 for Shiel : he's a seriously good player and we need his type especially as he is a mid but IMO he is on the wrong side of 25 for our needs. I don't think we should be trading the only trump card we have for a player who potentially only has 5 years left. I'd rather a 23-24 year old high end mid than a 26 year old high end mid which Shiel will be next year. We are a long way off true success. We got Judd when he was 23-24 and he didn't bring us home the bacon though I know he tried. Let's not make the same mistake again with our only off season trump card. (Disclaimer : if the AFL wake up and give us pick 2 as a PP then by all means hand that over for Shiel).

The next 3-6 months loom as very very important for the club and I hope wise heads make good decisions. But I'm worried TBH.


Yes Roosy and co traded pick 2 (Josh Kelly) for pick 9 (Salem) and Tyson.

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1167
Paddycripps wrote:
At the risk of coming across as a nervous nellie I've got to say I'm more than a little concerned over a few looming decisions.

1. Captaincy: With Cripps holding off signing on and Murphy putting in less than inspiring leadership from both a physical strength and on field body language intent perspective, and this concern is further reinforced after hearing Murphy talk about how he wants to keep leading this side, I worry Carlton might make the monumental error of not appointing Cripps captain, which IMO should happen very soon. I've been a Blues fan for many a decade and Cripps is as good a leader as I've ever seen. Making him captain is a dead set no brainer. The club should be offering him captaincy NOW. If they don't and he leaves then that'll be a complete disaster.

2. Trading Pick 1 for a number of inferior picks : lots of talk about maybe doing this, as there's a perception we lack depth so need as many picks as we can get. I don't mind trading 1 if we still get a high pick, IMO given the talent in this draft we must have a pick in the top half dozen. If we trade 1 for something outside that range, such as 8, I worry that pick might not get us a topline talent, which IMO is our no. 1 need. While I know there's no guarantee in the draft it nonetheless stands to reason the higher the pick the more chance you have of striking gold and IMO the top six this year are all striking talents (the two SA lads, the two Kings, Walsh and Smith) . If we forfeit the opportunity to get a topline talent it'll be another disaster. Regardless of injuries we are bottom with one win, we clearly need top end talent not B Graders.

3. Trading pick 1 for Shiel : he's a seriously good player and we need his type especially as he is a mid but IMO he is on the wrong side of 25 for our needs. I don't think we should be trading the only trump card we have for a player who potentially only has 5 years left. I'd rather a 23-24 year old high end mid than a 26 year old high end mid which Shiel will be next year. We are a long way off true success. We got Judd when he was 23-24 and he didn't bring us home the bacon though I know he tried. Let's not make the same mistake again with our only off season trump card. (Disclaimer : if the AFL wake up and give us pick 2 as a PP then by all means hand that over for Shiel).

The next 3-6 months loom as very very important for the club and I hope wise heads make good decisions. But I'm worried TBH.


:clap:


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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:47 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:48 pm
Posts: 927
Murphy has shown loyalty in resigning. Do we not show loyalty in return? What message do we want to send to the squad? If you stick with Carlton, we stick with you? or if something better comes along then bye bye? Cripps may well be future Captain material, and he'll get his chance in due coarse. Until then Murphy should be rewarded for sticking with the club through thick and thin imho.

I don't put much stock into draft selections. There's just too much what ifs and success/disaster stories to make heads or tails of any of it. A quick example: Kane Lambert of Richmond. We had him. Played for the Bullants (his 2013 season was something special) and went to Richmond at pick 46 in the rookie draft. How did we not draft this player? He is a running machine. Look at our engine room today. He is exactly the type of player we desperately need. Yet all things considered, its a gamble we didn't take and Richmond did, which has paid huge dividends to the Tigers.

People say we need talent, the glaring obvious. But I think we need talent at picking talent. If I was in charge this would be my number one concern and I wouldn't rest until we got that talent at all costs. We've picked number 1 draft choices over and over whilst overlooking awesome talent in the process Kane Lambert being one example. What we need imho is the absolute best of the best at picking talent and obtaining for the club. Something I think we've seriously lacked for far far too long imho, and the reason we are in the shithouse position we find ourselves in today.


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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:23 am
Posts: 1614
Location: Smorgyland Village North Carlton
We are the worst team by 10 goals, and yet people think we have injuries, aside of Doc the rest would barely make any other AFL side and maybe not on merit some senior WAFL, VFL or SANFL sides.
We do not develop players full stop, never have and without radical change, never will.

Bolton is running a happy camp to try and stop a mass exodus to save him and Silvagni from embarrassment. Bolton is so far out of his depth it’s laughable.
By chance overseas I spoke with an opposition coaching staff person he told me certain top sides structure training loads in the lead up to us like having a second Bye, that’s why some of the top teams don’t flog us yet the lower teams do.
I’ll never stop supporting the club (for what might be its final years in this format) but I’ll never support blind undeserved loyalty, to very highly paid, underperforming suits and polos.

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 Post subject: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:37 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 19378
Bookie wrote:
We are the worst team by 10 goals, and yet people think we have injuries, aside of Doc the rest would barely make any other AFL side and maybe not on merit some senior WAFL, VFL or SANFL sides.
We do not develop players full stop, never have and without radical change, never will.

Bolton is running a happy camp to try and stop a mass exodus to save him and Silvagni from embarrassment. Bolton is so far out of his depth it’s laughable.
By chance overseas I spoke with an opposition coaching staff person he told me certain top sides structure training loads in the lead up to us like having a second Bye, that’s why some of the top teams don’t flog us yet the lower teams do.
I’ll never stop supporting the club (for what might be its final years in this format) but I’ll never support blind undeserved loyalty, to very highly paid, underperforming suits and polos.


What a load of tripe. At least half last nights team would get a game at another club.

Dow, SPS, Marchbank, Curnows, O’Brien, Murphy, Cripps, Kennedy, Kreuzer, McKay as a start.

Development I agree with. But that requires a game plan that is simple and clear, with Senior leadership on field to show how it is done.


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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:01 pm
Posts: 27512
Location: The Brown Wedge
The Normal One wrote:
Bookie wrote:
We are the worst team by 10 goals, and yet people think we have injuries, aside of Doc the rest would barely make any other AFL side and maybe not on merit some senior WAFL, VFL or SANFL sides.
We do not develop players full stop, never have and without radical change, never will.

Bolton is running a happy camp to try and stop a mass exodus to save him and Silvagni from embarrassment. Bolton is so far out of his depth it’s laughable.
By chance overseas I spoke with an opposition coaching staff person he told me certain top sides structure training loads in the lead up to us like having a second Bye, that’s why some of the top teams don’t flog us yet the lower teams do.
I’ll never stop supporting the club (for what might be its final years in this format) but I’ll never support blind undeserved loyalty, to very highly paid, underperforming suits and polos.


What a load of tripe. At least half last nights team would get a game at another club.

Dow, SPS, Marchbank, Curnows, O’Brien, Murphy, Cripps, Kennedy, Kreuzer, McKay as a start.

Development I agree with. But that requires a game plan that is simple and clear, with Senior leadership on field to show how it is done.


100%.

Bolts' game plan might look @#$%&! awesome on paper, or when they do drills on Wednesday afternoon at PP, but it gets smashed to bits when the witches hats become men who want to kill you.

I could write a business plan that, on paper, will make me a billionaire, but I still have to get people to buy my product or I'm just another pretender.


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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:22 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:55 pm
Posts: 9646
Location: Brisbane
The Normal One wrote:
Bookie wrote:
We are the worst team by 10 goals, and yet people think we have injuries, aside of Doc the rest would barely make any other AFL side and maybe not on merit some senior WAFL, VFL or SANFL sides.
We do not develop players full stop, never have and without radical change, never will.

Bolton is running a happy camp to try and stop a mass exodus to save him and Silvagni from embarrassment. Bolton is so far out of his depth it’s laughable.
By chance overseas I spoke with an opposition coaching staff person he told me certain top sides structure training loads in the lead up to us like having a second Bye, that’s why some of the top teams don’t flog us yet the lower teams do.
I’ll never stop supporting the club (for what might be its final years in this format) but I’ll never support blind undeserved loyalty, to very highly paid, underperforming suits and polos.


What a load of tripe. At least half last nights team would get a game at another club.



I think Bookie was referring to the injured players, not those that played.

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Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.


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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:26 pm 
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John Nicholls
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:55 pm
Posts: 9646
Location: Brisbane
Paddycripps wrote:
At the risk of coming across as a nervous nellie I've got to say I'm more than a little concerned over a few looming decisions.

1. Captaincy: With Cripps holding off signing on and Murphy putting in less than inspiring leadership from both a physical strength and on field body language intent perspective, and this concern is further reinforced after hearing Murphy talk about how he wants to keep leading this side, I worry Carlton might make the monumental error of not appointing Cripps captain, which IMO should happen very soon. I've been a Blues fan for many a decade and Cripps is as good a leader as I've ever seen. Making him captain is a dead set no brainer. The club should be offering him captaincy NOW. If they don't and he leaves then that'll be a complete disaster.




Very confident that Murphy will not be captain next year.

_________________
THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.


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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 2847
idle wrote:
Murphy has shown loyalty in resigning. Do we not show loyalty in return? What message do we want to send to the squad? If you stick with Carlton, we stick with you? or if something better comes along then bye bye? Cripps may well be future Captain material, and he'll get his chance in due coarse. Until then Murphy should be rewarded for sticking with the club through thick and thin imho.

I don't put much stock into draft selections. There's just too much what ifs and success/disaster stories to make heads or tails of any of it. A quick example: Kane Lambert of Richmond. We had him. Played for the Bullants (his 2013 season was something special) and went to Richmond at pick 46 in the rookie draft. How did we not draft this player? He is a running machine. Look at our engine room today. He is exactly the type of player we desperately need. Yet all things considered, its a gamble we didn't take and Richmond did, which has paid huge dividends to the Tigers.

People say we need talent, the glaring obvious. But I think we need talent at picking talent. If I was in charge this would be my number one concern and I wouldn't rest until we got that talent at all costs. We've picked number 1 draft choices over and over whilst overlooking awesome talent in the process Kane Lambert being one example. What we need imho is the absolute best of the best at picking talent and obtaining for the club. Something I think we've seriously lacked for far far too long imho, and the reason we are in the shithouse position we find ourselves in today.


Look, I'm not having a go at you, but I'm @#$%&! sick of the Kane Lambert story.

Lambert came to the Northern Bullants through the Northern Knights, played a couple of decent seasons then moved to Williamstown. He was recruited from Williamstown at pick 45 in the 2015 rookie draft at the age of 23. We didn't 'have him' and he wasn't drafted from under our noses. Every team in the league had multiple opportunities to recruit him and every team in the league didn't... until Richmond used a late pick in the rookie draft on him. Good on them, he's turned into a good footballer.

Using Lambert as a cudgel against the management of the club is manifestly unfair.


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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1167
bluedog wrote:
The Normal One wrote:
Bookie wrote:
We are the worst team by 10 goals, and yet people think we have injuries, aside of Doc the rest would barely make any other AFL side and maybe not on merit some senior WAFL, VFL or SANFL sides.
We do not develop players full stop, never have and without radical change, never will.

Bolton is running a happy camp to try and stop a mass exodus to save him and Silvagni from embarrassment. Bolton is so far out of his depth it’s laughable.
By chance overseas I spoke with an opposition coaching staff person he told me certain top sides structure training loads in the lead up to us like having a second Bye, that’s why some of the top teams don’t flog us yet the lower teams do.
I’ll never stop supporting the club (for what might be its final years in this format) but I’ll never support blind undeserved loyalty, to very highly paid, underperforming suits and polos.


What a load of tripe. At least half last nights team would get a game at another club.



I think Bookie was referring to the injured players, not those that played.



Correct.

And correct again, at least half of last night's team wouldn't be getting a game elsewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 11305
sinbagger wrote:
I think it’s much worse than this, I’m worried the club will soon cease to exist. We are irrelevant to the competition in almost every way I imaginable.

This is a concern but I can't imagine the AFL allowing it to happen.
Even during those dark years following the salary cap breaches we still managed to win more games than we look like winning this year.
Pagan inherited an ageing list and no draft picks and we still won 3 games that first year.
After such a promising pre season, other than Docherty's injury, things were going well.
It all fell apart in round 2 unfortunately.


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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:41 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 14847
I love Cripps but if we wants to walk, we'll take 2 first rounders for him. If players only want to stay for the captaincy, see ya later.
Personally, I think too many are underselling his character. He'll see improvement next year and that will be enough for him to sign on.

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:46 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 14847
Bookie wrote:
We are the worst team by 10 goals, and yet people think we have injuries, aside of Doc the rest would barely make any other AFL side and maybe not on merit some senior WAFL, VFL or SANFL sides.


Right.
Williamson, Plowman, Lang, Wright, Macreadie, Weitering, Cuningham, Byrne , Phillips, Silvagni, Kreuzer etc would barely make some VFL, WAFL or SANFL sides.
We may as well shut this site down. The @#$%&! loonys have taken control. :lol:
Losing makes people @#$%&! stupid!!!!!

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 Post subject: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:04 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 16275
Location: North of the border
I got this from a very reliable source. We have all heard about the issues on the Adelaide camp where players were blind folded and made to listen to the Richmond song
Players were asked to tell home truths and phones were taken away.
Well when we went to the Gold coast it was far worse.
Players were blind folded whilst Bolton sang Kumbiah and Ging gang guly as well as found a peanut.
All the players had their hair dryers taken off them and nail polish and waxing wasn't allowed.
Boy did this not go down well

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:48 pm
Posts: 3766
Location: Perth
Blue Vain wrote:
I love Cripps but if we wants to walk, we'll take 2 first rounders for him. If players only want to stay for the captaincy, see ya later.
Personally, I think too many are underselling his character. He'll see improvement next year and that will be enough for him to sign on.


Improvement like what was supposed to happen in the back half of this year?

I appreciate your input Blue Vain but couldn’t disagree more on Cripps leaving. Would be nothing short of catastrophic imho.

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
idle wrote:
Murphy has shown loyalty in resigning. Do we not show loyalty in return? What message do we want to send to the squad? If you stick with Carlton, we stick with you? or if something better comes along then bye bye? Cripps may well be future Captain material, and he'll get his chance in due coarse. Until then Murphy should be rewarded for sticking with the club through thick and thin imho.

I don't put much stock into draft selections. There's just too much what ifs and success/disaster stories to make heads or tails of any of it. A quick example: Kane Lambert of Richmond. We had him. Played for the Bullants (his 2013 season was something special) and went to Richmond at pick 46 in the rookie draft. How did we not draft this player? He is a running machine. Look at our engine room today. He is exactly the type of player we desperately need. Yet all things considered, its a gamble we didn't take and Richmond did, which has paid huge dividends to the Tigers.

People say we need talent, the glaring obvious. But I think we need talent at picking talent. If I was in charge this would be my number one concern and I wouldn't rest until we got that talent at all costs. We've picked number 1 draft choices over and over whilst overlooking awesome talent in the process Kane Lambert being one example. What we need imho is the absolute best of the best at picking talent and obtaining for the club. Something I think we've seriously lacked for far far too long imho, and the reason we are in the shithouse position we find ourselves in today.


Now I've seen everything... someone advocating for Marc Murphy to retain the captaincy :donk:

Possibly the worst football call I've ever seen!


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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:34 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 2798
Bookie wrote:
We are the worst team by 10 goals, and yet people think we have injuries, aside of Doc the rest would barely make any other AFL side and maybe not on merit some senior WAFL, VFL or SANFL sides.
We do not develop players full stop, never have and without radical change, never will.

Bolton is running a happy camp to try and stop a mass exodus to save him and Silvagni from embarrassment. Bolton is so far out of his depth it’s laughable.
By chance overseas I spoke with an opposition coaching staff person he told me certain top sides structure training loads in the lead up to us like having a second Bye, that’s why some of the top teams don’t flog us yet the lower teams do.
I’ll never stop supporting the club (for what might be its final years in this format) but I’ll never support blind undeserved loyalty, to very highly paid, underperforming suits and polos.


Bullshit

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 Post subject: Re: Alarm Bells
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:38 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 2798
Blue Vain wrote:
Bookie wrote:
We are the worst team by 10 goals, and yet people think we have injuries, aside of Doc the rest would barely make any other AFL side and maybe not on merit some senior WAFL, VFL or SANFL sides.


Right.
Williamson, Plowman, Lang, Wright, Macreadie, Weitering, Cuningham, Byrne , Phillips, Silvagni, Kreuzer etc would barely make some VFL, WAFL or SANFL sides.
We may as well shut this site down. The @#$%&! loonys have taken control. :lol:
Losing makes people @#$%&! stupid!!!!!


:thumbsup:

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