TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?

Sydney Blue wrote:

100% we got this wrong
We have drafted in 16 National draft picks in the last 3 years
We currently have 3 maybe 4 that are going to be long term

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

You must be a bloody good judge to write off 12 maybe 13 players that are still somewhere between years 1 and 2.5 into their development.
Have you ever thought of going into list management?

Humpers wrote:

Steve_C7 wrote:

From where we were at, we had NO choice other than go down the full rebuild.

Players that will forge our team and push us into finals have been drafted, we don't need 5 A graders we need a couple and good team spirit which I genuinely believe we have.

Doc, Cripps, Curnow and maybe Marchbank are A graders, we then have Dow, Fisher, Plowman, SPS and Willo that I believe will be B Graders. After that McKay, SOSOS, Ker, Lang, Kennedy, Macreadie, Weitering and O'Brien that could become B graders (too early to tell)

That is not a bad team in 30 - 50 games time, add a couple extra draft pick and a quality FA and we are on our way.

The risk in the strategy is where we are at now, that is remove too many mature bodies and the young bodies will get battered and bruised and injury toll will rise.

Good post.
I'm confident that if we keep our current crop of players, draft a couple more quality mids (Walsh and ?) and bring in another quality mid through free agency we are looking the goods for 2020 and beyond.
Just need to be more competitive and stop the haemorrhaging for the next year or so while the kids develop.

We will only improve from now on , can't get any worse

The other thing we did wrong was to say we won’t be asking for the Priority Pick. That in itself is simply inexcusable.

bluechucky wrote:

The other thing we did wrong was to say we won’t be asking for the Priority Pick. That in itself is simply inexcusable.

If we finish with one win - I’m going to love Gil’s press conference announcing Brisbane and Gold Coasts priority picks.

:lol:

Agree Bluechucky madness

Agree about club being shell shocked at how in competitive we are this year because SOS during trade and draft period last year stated unequivocally a couple of times that this club has to simply start winning games that was the priority and having fluked one for the year and being dreadful/putrid in other so- called winnable games suggests to me that they had no idea that the season was going to pan out so badly

You always need a balance between the two. In our Case, It has to be Draft, Draft and only Draft...

One thing we got wrong was to say this was a 3 or 4 year rebuild. It’s going to take 6 or 7.

I don’t think there has been a list as poor as ours in recent history.

The other thing we did wrong was to say we won’t be asking for the Priority Pick. That in itself is simply inexcusable.

Never felt the draftees were bad, its the recycled players where we have failed.

GMCbris wrote:

Never felt the draftees were bad, its the recycled players where we have failed.

Spot on.

I like most of the players we have drafted. Rather than getting so many recycled players who are going to be delisted after a few years we would have been better off getting the likes of a Stevie J for two years ... those close games lost last year may have been wins with a match winner like Stevie J ... three more wins extra per year in our rebuild will enhance the confidence and mindset of our younger players.

Right now it is the above the shoulders damage that is being done that concerns me.

When a Stevie J is no longer of any use ... you go and find the next one

dadadadada wrote:

GMCbris wrote:

Never felt the draftees were bad, its the recycled players where we have failed.

I think that is what they have tried to do... Just haven't done it well

Go Blues

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?
doofdoof wrote: Sydney Blue wrote: 100% we got this wrong We have drafted in 16 National draft picks in the last 3 years We currently have 3 maybe 4 that are going to be long term Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk You must be a bloody good judge to write off 12 maybe 13 players that are still somewhere between years 1 and 2.5 into their development. Have you ever thought of going into list management? Disregarding the last 3 drafts Murphy Kruezer Simpson Cripps 4 players on the list who were actually taken in the ND So it would be fair to say that of the 16 we have taken in the last 3 years that come 3 to 4 years that a fair chunk wont be playing Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Author:	Stone Free [ Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?
Rexy wrote: Humpers wrote: Steve_C7 wrote: From where we were at, we had NO choice other than go down the full rebuild. Players that will forge our team and push us into finals have been drafted, we don't need 5 A graders we need a couple and good team spirit which I genuinely believe we have. Doc, Cripps, Curnow and maybe Marchbank are A graders, we then have Dow, Fisher, Plowman, SPS and Willo that I believe will be B Graders. After that McKay, SOSOS, Ker, Lang, Kennedy, Macreadie, Weitering and O'Brien that could become B graders (too early to tell) That is not a bad team in 30 - 50 games time, add a couple extra draft pick and a quality FA and we are on our way. The risk in the strategy is where we are at now, that is remove too many mature bodies and the young bodies will get battered and bruised and injury toll will rise. Good post. I'm confident that if we keep our current crop of players, draft a couple more quality mids (Walsh and ?) and bring in another quality mid through free agency we are looking the goods for 2020 and beyond. Just need to be more competitive and stop the haemorrhaging for the next year or so while the kids develop. We will only improve from now on , can't get any worse I thought that after the Fremantle game... but then the bar got lowered again.

Author:	Adam Chatfield [ Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?
I think we have got some things right and others wrong. The most obvious wrong is not getting some older mids to help the young guys this year. No more than 1 of O'Shea, Mullet or Shaw should have been recruited, this has left us exposed and more unbalanced than we already were. Not playing McKay seems very weird, and some shades of the Jakesh situation. Does he just not work hard enough? Are they trying to teach him a lesson? Doesn't seem to wash when we see him produce more than most of our forwards when we do play him. We also seem to want to reward form at team selection as opposed to team balance. We looked too tall on the weekend, and we know what happened (obviously not the only problem). I do think how bad we have been this year has left Bolts and the rest of the club a bit shell shocked and unsure what to do? We have tried a few things, damage limitation, expansive play, play kids, play the older guys etc. Nothing has seemed to work, and every time things seem to have settled for a bit we have copped injuries. Our last 2 years and having a decent run with injury masked our problems somewhat it seems. We could of been in a similar position either of the previous 2 years if we had a less favourable run with injury (look at our late season form in 16/17 when we had Murphy missing in 2016 and Cripps/Curnow missing in 2017). Be a good stat to look at our record from the beginning of 2016 with Murph, Doc, Kreuze, Gibbs and Cripps all in the team and without.

Author:	bluechucky [ Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?
One thing we got wrong was to say this was a 3 or 4 year rebuild. It’s going to take 6 or 7. I don’t think there has been a list as poor as ours in recent history. The other thing we did wrong was to say we won’t be asking for the Priority Pick. That in itself is simply inexcusable.

Author:	AGRO [ Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?
bluechucky wrote: The other thing we did wrong was to say we won’t be asking for the Priority Pick. That in itself is simply inexcusable. If we finish with one win - I’m going to love Gil’s press conference announcing Brisbane and Gold Coasts priority picks.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	frank dardew [ Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?
Agree Bluechucky madness Agree about club being shell shocked at how in competitive we are this year because SOS during trade and draft period last year stated unequivocally a couple of times that this club has to simply start winning games that was the priority and having fluked one for the year and being dreadful/putrid in other so- called winnable games suggests to me that they had no idea that the season was going to pan out so badly

Author:	sinbagger [ Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?
AGRO wrote: bluechucky wrote: The other thing we did wrong was to say we won’t be asking for the Priority Pick. That in itself is simply inexcusable. If we finish with one win - I’m going to love Gil’s press conference announcing Brisbane and Gold Coasts priority picks. Should be straightforward, “why didn’t you give Carlton a PP too?” . “We certainly think they need one but Carlton told us they don’t want any. Next question”.

Author:	Rexy [ Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?
frank dardew wrote: Agree Bluechucky madness Agree about club being shell shocked at how in competitive we are this year because SOS during trade and draft period last year stated unequivocally a couple of times that this club has to simply start winning games that was the priority and having fluked one for the year and being dreadful/putrid in other so- called winnable games suggests to me that they had no idea that the season was going to pan out so badly A PP isn't going to solve our injury management issues or our player development issues. Those issues are the reasons we are where we are. Fix those issues and we start winning games.

Author:	Dodo27 [ Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?
You always need a balance between the two. In our Case, It has to be Draft, Draft and only Draft....It is the only way up! This year, we have recruited old big bodies in Mullet, O'Shea & Kennedy..... but have they added anything to our side? NOTHING..... The first two are useless hacks that must be delisted end of year and Kennedy has the excuse of being injured and playing injured all year, so they reckon he still has a potential to develop next year, otherwise he has done nothing at all this year! I am not convinced on Kenny at all... I hope he proves me wrong....

Author:	GWS [ Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?
Dodo27 wrote: You always need a balance between the two. In our Case, It has to be Draft, Draft and only Draft... Ok...I’m completely lost.

Author:	Steve_C7 [ Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?
bluechucky wrote: One thing we got wrong was to say this was a 3 or 4 year rebuild. It’s going to take 6 or 7. I don’t think there has been a list as poor as ours in recent history. The other thing we did wrong was to say we won’t be asking for the Priority Pick. That in itself is simply inexcusable. I think when they stated it was a 3 year rebuild, that they referring to list turnover, not being in a position to move up the ladder. In regards to the priority pick, I believe that the statement made by the club is to take the discussion off the table as the AFL will NOT make any decision of this mid season. If we are ever going to get a PP, the AFL will want to do this post season where the media scrutiny will be minimal.

Author:	dadadadada [ Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?
GMCbris wrote: Never felt the draftees were bad, its the recycled players where we have failed. Spot on. I like most of the players we have drafted. Rather than getting so many recycled players who are going to be delisted after a few years we would have been better off getting the likes of a Stevie J for two years ... those close games lost last year may have been wins with a match winner like Stevie J ... three more wins extra per year in our rebuild will enhance the confidence and mindset of our younger players. Right now it is the above the shoulders damage that is being done that concerns me. When a Stevie J is no longer of any use ... you go and find the next one

Author:	billc3 [ Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?
dadadadada wrote: GMCbris wrote: Never felt the draftees were bad, its the recycled players where we have failed. Spot on. I like most of the players we have drafted. Rather than getting so many recycled players who are going to be delisted after a few years we would have been better off getting the likes of a Stevie J for two years ... those close games lost last year may have been wins with a match winner like Stevie J ... three more wins extra per year in our rebuild will enhance the confidence and mindset of our younger players. Right now it is the above the shoulders damage that is being done that concerns me. When a Stevie J is no longer of any use ... you go and find the next one I think that is what they have tried to do... Just haven't done it well Go Blues

Author:	Adam Chatfield [ Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Have we erred by going a draft driven rebuild?
billc3 wrote: dadadadada wrote: GMCbris wrote: Never felt the draftees were bad, its the recycled players where we have failed. Spot on. I like most of the players we have drafted. Rather than getting so many recycled players who are going to be delisted after a few years we would have been better off getting the likes of a Stevie J for two years ... those close games lost last year may have been wins with a match winner like Stevie J ... three more wins extra per year in our rebuild will enhance the confidence and mindset of our younger players. Right now it is the above the shoulders damage that is being done that concerns me. When a Stevie J is no longer of any use ... you go and find the next one I think that is what they have tried to do... Just haven't done it well Go Blues We haven’t gone any older stars in their 30s. We have gone guys who were always below par afl footballers and always will be in O’Shea, mullet and Shaw. Now I get we need some of these types, but a Hodge type would of been better. Seems they have got too obsessed with age profiles of players. In theory O’Shea could play 100+ games at his age, but he’s terrible so he won’t.

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