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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:13 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:41 pm
Posts: 2371
tommi wrote:
Quick question....

without looking at the stats...wen seem to have a
habit of getting pantsed in the 2nd quarter a lot...!

do you guys think this goes back to the Pagan
days...what's wrong...?


kindest regards tommi




a good mate and I have been discussing
this all morning...we're confused....!

Nope. More to do with the Renaissance period I would suggest.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:31 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 8:24 pm
Posts: 829
Ockham's Razor wrote:
Crippa wrote:
Blue Monday wrote:
Not sure if I am making too much of it but one of the lowest points last night was watching that ugly F-wit Crocker in Weiterings face after one of his second quarter stuff ups..

This piece of sh1t really gave it to Weits in a big way, Weits looked like he was almost about to just give it all up (fortunately he actually rallied after it and recovered pretty well).

But what really got me fired up though was that no one came to either to his rescue or to put arm over his shoulder and settle him down. Wright did come over but I would have expected the cavalry rock up. Instead, I never saw any one else of the leadership group come up to his defence and give it to the Collingwood pr1ck..

Best indication to me of the lack of cohesion and on field leadership gap..

Am I reading too much into it?


I'm sure many don't rate Andy Marr but he surgested in his podcast last week that Jacob has developed a reputation as private school boy from Mt Matha who has had an easy life and won't put up any sort of fight if you poke him in the chest. I can't recall if anybody came to help him but he sure didn't do anything to stand up for himself. He just stood there and took it.


Would be interesting to see a list of 'private school' boys vs real men recruited over the past 10 years. Not so sure Andy Maher's generalisation would stand up...


I don't think he was having a crack at private school boys. Just saying clubs are targeting Jacob as they pegged him as somebody who won't stand up to physical attention. That's all. Not saying it's right or wrong. But I was disappointed to see Jacob accept the treatment he was given.

My opinion is he'll be fine in the long run. It was just an interesting discussion.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:39 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 361
watching weiters' form in the hawthorn practice game gave me real hope, belief even, that he would be the talk of the backmen across the league.

he was ok last night. though it's really interesting how quickly everything changed around him in two weeks.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:46 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Crippa wrote:
Blue Monday wrote:
Not sure if I am making too much of it but one of the lowest points last night was watching that ugly F-wit Crocker in Weiterings face after one of his second quarter stuff ups..

This piece of sh1t really gave it to Weits in a big way, Weits looked like he was almost about to just give it all up (fortunately he actually rallied after it and recovered pretty well).

But what really got me fired up though was that no one came to either to his rescue or to put arm over his shoulder and settle him down. Wright did come over but I would have expected the cavalry rock up. Instead, I never saw any one else of the leadership group come up to his defence and give it to the Collingwood pr1ck..

Best indication to me of the lack of cohesion and on field leadership gap..

Am I reading too much into it?


I'm sure many don't rate Andy Marr but he surgested in his podcast last week that Jacob has developed a reputation as private school boy from Mt Matha who has had an easy life and won't put up any sort of fight if you poke him in the chest. I can't recall if anybody came to help him but he sure didn't do anything to stand up for himself. He just stood there and took it.



Maher the bohemian from East Malvern, tough nut that one :yikes:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:59 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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doofdoof wrote:
we fielded 10 guys that were 21 and under and have an average of 20 games between them
our best senior players are kreuzer, murphy and simpson and Cripps who is still 23 and has played 63 games
i am not sure these types of results/performances are that surprising



i read a stat on twitter where collingwood – to a player – were younger and average less played games than our squad on friday night.


so that really debunks the whole, "we're really young, lets not expect too much out of the little darlings," mindset.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:01 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Braithy wrote:
doofdoof wrote:
we fielded 10 guys that were 21 and under and have an average of 20 games between them
our best senior players are kreuzer, murphy and simpson and Cripps who is still 23 and has played 63 games
i am not sure these types of results/performances are that surprising



i read a stat on twitter where collingwood – to a player – were younger and average less played games than our squad on friday night.


so that really debunks the whole, "we're really young, lets not expect too much out of the little darlings," mindset.

We also can't use our tried and true "But we have injuries" one either.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:03 am 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 8:24 pm
Posts: 829
redback wrote:
Crippa wrote:
Blue Monday wrote:
Not sure if I am making too much of it but one of the lowest points last night was watching that ugly F-wit Crocker in Weiterings face after one of his second quarter stuff ups..

This piece of sh1t really gave it to Weits in a big way, Weits looked like he was almost about to just give it all up (fortunately he actually rallied after it and recovered pretty well).

But what really got me fired up though was that no one came to either to his rescue or to put arm over his shoulder and settle him down. Wright did come over but I would have expected the cavalry rock up. Instead, I never saw any one else of the leadership group come up to his defence and give it to the Collingwood pr1ck..

Best indication to me of the lack of cohesion and on field leadership gap..

Am I reading too much into it?


I'm sure many don't rate Andy Marr but he surgested in his podcast last week that Jacob has developed a reputation as private school boy from Mt Matha who has had an easy life and won't put up any sort of fight if you poke him in the chest. I can't recall if anybody came to help him but he sure didn't do anything to stand up for himself. He just stood there and took it.



Maher the bohemian from East Malvern, tough nut that one :yikes:


Seriously people? Too eager for a zingy one liner to worry about the post huh? It's not HIS opinion. He is saying what he's heard other clubs say about his fragility.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:54 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 1890
We need to really shake this loser mentality from our club before we start to make real gains

No belief has killed us for such a long time

Even when we had a better list

Always believe that when recruiting, a players mental strength and resilience should be key attributes


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:45 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm
Posts: 2251
Braithy wrote:
doofdoof wrote:
we fielded 10 guys that were 21 and under and have an average of 20 games between them
our best senior players are kreuzer, murphy and simpson and Cripps who is still 23 and has played 63 games
i am not sure these types of results/performances are that surprising



i read a stat on twitter where collingwood – to a player – were younger and average less played games than our squad on friday night.


so that really debunks the whole, "we're really young, lets not expect too much out of the little darlings," mindset.



ah twitter, where everyone goes to analyse all things afl

do a proper analysis of the lists. buckley has been dismantling...i mean putting his together since 2012...and bolts started 2 years ago. how many other teams in the comp have turned over so many players in 3 pre seasons?

anyway, what do you propose as the solution? i think we need to stick at it and keep building the way we have. i.e. go to the draft this year and bring in as many top 25 picks as possible. half the guys out there on friday night are in their 1st, 2nd or start of their 3rd years. dangerfield averaged 12 touches a game in his first 2 seasons. How's that compare with SPS or Fish. Ablett junior had 12.5, Sam Mitchell 15.8 & Roughead kicked 18 goals in his first 36 games. Jack Silvagni's kicked 26 in his first 28 and he's not even rated as one of our better youngsters. i know it's been 15+ years of garbage but there are plenty of signs pointing to this rebuild being right and unfortunately our only real option is being patient for a couple more years.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:58 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8172
Location: Australia
Yeah, let’s all be patient, were almost done with rebuild, trust me, like we have been for the last 15 years.

I think we should use the swear filter on words like “potential”, “rebuild” and “patience”. I find them extremely offensive.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:04 pm
Posts: 47259
Location: Prison Island
bluechucky wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
Thank god I’ve discovered a love of ice hockey whilst here in LA.

Think I’ve had enough of Carlton.


Awesome sport. Been a Penguins fan since the nineties so have been very fortunate that they have been so good the last few years.

Possibility for a threepeat this year.


I have been to 2 kings games at staples Center.

The atmosphere and presentation is unbelievable much better than the clippers and lakers games.

Have really enjoyed it.

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*(grow - fun - gah) :fight:

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:20 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Location: Brisbane
WOW wrote:
We need to really shake this loser mentality from our club before we start to make real gains

No belief has killed us for such a long time

Even when we had a better list

Always believe that when recruiting, a players mental strength and resilience should be key attributes


No doubt.

Some physically tough players needed as well. How many on our list are physically tough, as in able to dish a bit out as well as take it? Players that not only stick a tackle, but tackle hard?

Our team not only lacks skill, but mongrel.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:52 am
Posts: 1190


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXx1EvlbiIo

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:31 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Brave effort Wookie.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:28 pm 
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formerly Army the Wonderkid
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I think the key to the highlights package are the guys that won the ball or put their body on the line when the Pies were on a roll. This is where we look for leadership.

Ed, Special K, Charlie, Cripps...

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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The Duke wrote:
Brave effort Wookie.


Yep, got to sit through a lot of unpalatable footage to produce that.

Thanks.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:35 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:07 pm
Posts: 240
Crippa wrote:
Blue Monday wrote:
Not sure if I am making too much of it but one of the lowest points last night was watching that ugly F-wit Crocker in Weiterings face after one of his second quarter stuff ups..

This piece of sh1t really gave it to Weits in a big way, Weits looked like he was almost about to just give it all up (fortunately he actually rallied after it and recovered pretty well).

But what really got me fired up though was that no one came to either to his rescue or to put arm over his shoulder and settle him down. Wright did come over but I would have expected the cavalry rock up. Instead, I never saw any one else of the leadership group come up to his defence and give it to the Collingwood pr1ck..

Best indication to me of the lack of cohesion and on field leadership gap..

Am I reading too much into it?


I'm sure many don't rate Andy Marr but he surgested in his podcast last week that Jacob has developed a reputation as private school boy from Mt Matha who has had an easy life and won't put up any sort of fight if you poke him in the chest. I can't recall if anybody came to help him but he sure didn't do anything to stand up for himself. He just stood there and took it.


Weiters had a look that he was about to cry..could you imagine how people would push him around if he did..He really doesnt seem to like body work


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:05 pm 
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Laurie Kerr
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Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:01 pm
Posts: 148
grrofunger wrote:
bluechucky wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
Thank god I’ve discovered a love of ice hockey whilst here in LA.

Think I’ve had enough of Carlton.


Awesome sport. Been a Penguins fan since the nineties so have been very fortunate that they have been so good the last few years.

Possibility for a threepeat this year.


I have been to 2 kings games at staples Center.

The atmosphere and presentation is unbelievable much better than the clippers and lakers games.

Have really enjoyed it.


I've been a huge Kings fan for a few years now. I was fortunate enough to be able to attend a few hockey games a couple of years ago and you're absolutely spot on. The atmosphere in the Staples for the Kings (Dallas Stars also) was incredible. American sports have really nailed pre game and intermission shows, the AFL could learn plenty!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:12 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 4685
doofdoof wrote:
Braithy wrote:
doofdoof wrote:
we fielded 10 guys that were 21 and under and have an average of 20 games between them
our best senior players are kreuzer, murphy and simpson and Cripps who is still 23 and has played 63 games
i am not sure these types of results/performances are that surprising



i read a stat on twitter where collingwood – to a player – were younger and average less played games than our squad on friday night.


so that really debunks the whole, "we're really young, lets not expect too much out of the little darlings," mindset.



ah twitter, where everyone goes to analyse all things afl

do a proper analysis of the lists. buckley has been dismantling...i mean putting his together since 2012...and bolts started 2 years ago. how many other teams in the comp have turned over so many players in 3 pre seasons?


we may have turned over too much list. watching this season, and we've stripped the team of all our speed. Buckley could have easily remained here. he had speed, run and carry at least.

it feels like we've swapped old deadwood for new deadwood. there were multiple passengers friday night. at one point in the 3rd quarter, 13 players had 1 tackle or less. that is harking back to the ratten, bruise free footy days. minus judd and fev and attacking the corridor.

doofdoof wrote:
anyway, what do you propose as the solution? i think we need to stick at it and keep building the way we have. i.e. go to the draft this year and bring in as many top 25 picks as possible. half the guys out there on friday night are in their 1st, 2nd or start of their 3rd years. dangerfield averaged 12 touches a game in his first 2 seasons. How's that compare with SPS or Fish. Ablett junior had 12.5, Sam Mitchell 15.8 & Roughead kicked 18 goals in his first 36 games. Jack Silvagni's kicked 26 in his first 28 and he's not even rated as one of our better youngsters. i know it's been 15+ years of garbage but there are plenty of signs pointing to this rebuild being right and unfortunately our only real option is being patient for a couple more years.


i just think we (well, Bolton) needs to stop using the whole we have young list as a reason for failure. that's such a negative mindset. players can go into a game thinking it's okay to lose. from there it's just a matter of time until the excuses start coming before the ball is even bounced.

at that point the entire club culture is toast.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 33617
Location: COMFORTABLY DISSATISFIED
Braithy wrote:
doofdoof wrote:
Braithy wrote:
doofdoof wrote:
we fielded 10 guys that were 21 and under and have an average of 20 games between them
our best senior players are kreuzer, murphy and simpson and Cripps who is still 23 and has played 63 games
i am not sure these types of results/performances are that surprising



i read a stat on twitter where collingwood – to a player – were younger and average less played games than our squad on friday night.


so that really debunks the whole, "we're really young, lets not expect too much out of the little darlings," mindset.



ah twitter, where everyone goes to analyse all things afl

do a proper analysis of the lists. buckley has been dismantling...i mean putting his together since 2012...and bolts started 2 years ago. how many other teams in the comp have turned over so many players in 3 pre seasons?


we may have turned over too much list. watching this season, and we've stripped the team of all our speed. Buckley could have easily remained here. he had speed, run and carry at least.

it feels like we've swapped old deadwood for new deadwood. there were multiple passengers friday night. at one point in the 3rd quarter, 13 players had 1 tackle or less. that is harking back to the ratten, bruise free footy days. minus judd and fev and attacking the corridor.

doofdoof wrote:
anyway, what do you propose as the solution? i think we need to stick at it and keep building the way we have. i.e. go to the draft this year and bring in as many top 25 picks as possible. half the guys out there on friday night are in their 1st, 2nd or start of their 3rd years. dangerfield averaged 12 touches a game in his first 2 seasons. How's that compare with SPS or Fish. Ablett junior had 12.5, Sam Mitchell 15.8 & Roughead kicked 18 goals in his first 36 games. Jack Silvagni's kicked 26 in his first 28 and he's not even rated as one of our better youngsters. i know it's been 15+ years of garbage but there are plenty of signs pointing to this rebuild being right and unfortunately our only real option is being patient for a couple more years.


i just think we (well, Bolton) needs to stop using the whole we have young list as a reason for failure. that's such a negative mindset. players can go into a game thinking it's okay to lose. from there it's just a matter of time until the excuses start coming before the ball is even bounced.

at that point the entire club culture is toast.

I agree that we always seem to have a built-in excuse, only it’s a different excuse.

That excuse is injuries.

How many more @#$%&! times do we have to hear “we were cooked after <player> went off”, “we’re missing <player> and <player>, what do you expect?” or “we’ll be alright when <player>comes back”

Sure, that injuries are always there as an excuse is a whole different indictment. But this sort of attitude is more destructive imo.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY


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