TalkingCarlton :: View topic - List Mgmt 2018 - Rowe/Kerridge/Graham/Lamb delisted 18/10/18

bluechampion wrote:

The AFL have made a rod for their own back with Free Agency, even though I acknowledge that it's largely a player-driven thing.

Players change clubs via free agency for 4 reasons (in descending order of importance)

1. The chance to play in a strong side (Win a flag).
2. The chance to play at all (fringe players shifting about).
3. The chance to go home.
4. More money.

But the compensation formula is almost entirely based around how much money they're being paid.
Whilst it is true that many players shift for lots of money, I cannot think of a single good player who went to a struggling club for the money or any player, in fact, who shifted strictly for the cash.

Judd, Franklin, Boyd, Scully ... I guess you could argue that Sydney isn't a struggling club, but it's not like Franklin left a club with no flag prospects to go there - for mine that was all about the $$$. I suppose with Judd you could make a case that he wanted out of WA, but it's my belief that Dick's cheque-book was the deciding factor in coming to us.

I acknowledge that you did say "strictly", meaning that there were no other factors involved. Pretty hard to argue that absolutely I suppose, but I reckon there's plenty of blokes for whom money is the overwhelming motivator.

The Duke wrote:

If you haven't played finals for 3 years you get an extra ___% on your salary cap for ___ Years.

If you haven't played finals for 6 years you get an extra ___% on your salary cap for ___ Years.

...and so on.

Teams are finding ways of beating the cap . Carlton's history has them shitting themselves about it.
They need to do something about the compensation for free agents. At the moment it appears to be weighted to the contract amount and length of contract.
I would just bring in a rule that if you finish top 4 and are after a player from the bottom 4 then you automatically lose your 1st or 2nd round draft pick.
At the moment it cost the club's nothing and the compensation for the team losing the players is all over the shop

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Free agency without cost to the team getting the FA is the farce. It’s allowed the top 4 clubs to get AA players at absolutely no cost. It’s not the compensation that’s broken, it’s the cost.
We could lose Cripps in a couple of years to a top 4 side.
It’s completely broken. The cap was expected to be the limiter but they overlooked that the top clubs are selling premiership glory and so aren’t paying market rates.Hawks have rorted it for all its worth. And the lower teams have all been raped,.

AIRCAV wrote:

WE did it when we were fab.
The circle will turn.

Maybe the FA needs to be reviewed so there is a cost to the gaining team as you said above..
How about the player has points allocated to him like F/S and academy draftees and if (Hawks) want (Cripps) in two years, they have to pay Carlton the going rate of 45000 points which would equate to them giving Carlton their first three picks in the 2020 draft.
That would slow them down a bit.
The current situation is never going to equalise anything as you said.

Don't understand why people want to change FA rules when we are about to exploit them, or are we not?????

AIRCAV wrote:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/why-the-blues-need-an-afl-hand-out-20180525-p4zhh6.html

Why the Blues need an AFL hand-out
By Jake Niall
25 May 2018 — 11:52am

Share on Facebook
Share on Twitter
Send via Email

Leave a comment

On Sunday, Carlton were beaten by 109 points by the Demons, in what was surely the club's nadir under Brendon Bolton, whose team has won two of its past 19 matches, with games against Geelong and Sydney next.

Blue Sombrero wrote:

AIRCAV wrote:

You have no idea how big our "war chest" is for the next 2 years.
I have an idea from what Ive been told and how they have achieved this flexibility.
If you believe money talks...well it will, and we will not lose players we want to keep.
SOS is talking to everyone's manager. No stone unturned.

I don't like losing, especially by 100 points, but hey, look at the injury toll.

I believe in the plan. I love the plan moving forward, and am going to love what happens in the next 2 years if the club stays the course.

Not a priority pick but fair compensation the loss of FA Waite who has played 5 seasons.

We got nothing because the AFL deemed too old.

He's still playing.
Obviously the AFL made a huge mistake.

Pick 3 thanks.

Then they can think of a Priority Pick too.

We weren't spurned by Rockliff.......with the amount he wanted.

Btw how is he going?

Unprepared senior player. That's exactly what we need with this young team to set the example.

If Murphy walks, that restricts our ability to go after a free agent

Author:	bluechampion [ Tue May 22, 2018 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
BigKev wrote: bluechampion wrote: The AFL have made a rod for their own back with Free Agency, even though I acknowledge that it's largely a player-driven thing. Players change clubs via free agency for 4 reasons (in descending order of importance) 1. The chance to play in a strong side (Win a flag). 2. The chance to play at all (fringe players shifting about). 3. The chance to go home. 4. More money. But the compensation formula is almost entirely based around how much money they're being paid. Whilst it is true that many players shift for lots of money, I cannot think of a single good player who went to a struggling club for the money or any player, in fact, who shifted strictly for the cash. Judd, Franklin, Boyd, Scully ... I guess you could argue that Sydney isn't a struggling club, but it's not like Franklin left a club with no flag prospects to go there - for mine that was all about the $$$. I suppose with Judd you could make a case that he wanted out of WA, but it's my belief that Dick's cheque-book was the deciding factor in coming to us. I acknowledge that you did say "strictly", meaning that there were no other factors involved. Pretty hard to argue that absolutely I suppose, but I reckon there's plenty of blokes for whom money is the overwhelming motivator. I'd say Judd was primarily motivated by coming home and the cash decided which club that ended up being. This was a trade, however. Scully's was about cash. His was a sideways move, but you could also argue that GWS' concessions made them an attractive proposition. They were set up to be successful. Franklin as also a sideways move, but definitely related to the money. Boyd's a funny one. It ended up being for success, but he definitely went for the pay day. But there were rumors he wanted to come home and the Dog's offer of cash just made it all happen faster. He was traded, however. That being said, I absolutely take your point

Author:	tap in 79 [ Wed May 23, 2018 11:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
Sydney Blue wrote: The Duke wrote: If you haven't played finals for 3 years you get an extra ___% on your salary cap for ___ Years. If you haven't played finals for 6 years you get an extra ___% on your salary cap for ___ Years. ...and so on. Teams are finding ways of beating the cap . Carlton's history has them shitting themselves about it. They need to do something about the compensation for free agents. At the moment it appears to be weighted to the contract amount and length of contract. I would just bring in a rule that if you finish top 4 and are after a player from the bottom 4 then you automatically lose your 1st or 2nd round draft pick. At the moment it cost the club's nothing and the compensation for the team losing the players is all over the shop Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk I like this suggestion of there being some pain to get some gain with top 4 ( even maybe top teams taking players from bottom 4 clubs. Auto lose 1st round pick or 2nd red would even it up a bit. The present system is odd. I mean even Carlton losing Waite...why did Carlton get nothing? Oh , well Waite’s old. That is all they judge it on? Alternatively, the AFL could continue on as if everything is fine and dandy. Let’s look at the weekend’s matches: Richmond vs St Kilda- yawnfest Bne vs Syd - could b a yawnfest but maybe not? Geelong vs car- definite yawnfest. 3 outof 8 matches per week at least are write/offs. Maybe Bne could shock the Swans, but afte mid term break 3 or 4 matches per week will be one-sided. This gets back to the point that the draft takes 6 plus years to turn around a club. Free agency makes it worse.

Author:	AIRCAV [ Wed May 23, 2018 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:	List Management 2018
Free agency without cost to the team getting the FA is the farce. It’s allowed the top 4 clubs to get AA players at absolutely no cost. It’s not the compensation that’s broken, it’s the cost. We could lose Cripps in a couple of years to a top 4 side. It’s completely broken. The cap was expected to be the limiter but they overlooked that the top clubs are selling premiership glory and so aren’t paying market rates.Hawks have rorted it for all its worth. And the lower teams have all been raped,.

Author:	tap in 79 [ Wed May 23, 2018 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
AIRCAV wrote: Free agency without cost to the team getting the FA is the farce. It’s allowed the top 4 clubs to get AA players at absolutely no cost. It’s not the compensation that’s broken, it’s the cost. We could lose Cripps in a couple of years to a top 4 side. It’s completely broken. The cap was expected to be the limiter but they overlooked that the top clubs are selling premiership glory and so aren’t paying market rates.Hawks have rorted it for all its worth. And the lower teams have all been raped,. I agree with your comments AirCav. Without Cripps, Curnow & Murphy there isn’t much to look forward to. Gibbs - again Carlton puts it faith in the draft as what other options do they have when they have no good cards in their hand? Agree with Hawthorn diagnosis-Rort. Thankfully Gil can meet with Clarko and sort out how umpiring needs to be fixed up as Clarko sees fit. Could you imagine the Carlton coach doing the same?

Author:	Blue Sombrero [ Thu May 24, 2018 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
AIRCAV wrote: Free agency without cost to the team getting the FA is the farce. It’s allowed the top 4 clubs to get AA players at absolutely no cost. It’s not the compensation that’s broken, it’s the cost. We could lose Cripps in a couple of years to a top 4 side. It’s completely broken. The cap was expected to be the limiter but they overlooked that the top clubs are selling premiership glory and so aren’t paying market rates.Hawks have rorted it for all its worth. And the lower teams have all been raped,. WE did it when we were fab. The circle will turn. Maybe the FA needs to be reviewed so there is a cost to the gaining team as you said above.. How about the player has points allocated to him like F/S and academy draftees and if (Hawks) want (Cripps) in two years, they have to pay Carlton the going rate of 45000 points which would equate to them giving Carlton their first three picks in the 2020 draft. That would slow them down a bit. The current situation is never going to equalise anything as you said.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

List Mgmt 2018 - Rowe/Kerridge/Graham/Lamb delisted 18/10/18 http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36048	Page 21 of 108

Author:	Sidefx [ Thu May 24, 2018 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
Blue Sombrero wrote: AIRCAV wrote: Free agency without cost to the team getting the FA is the farce. It’s allowed the top 4 clubs to get AA players at absolutely no cost. It’s not the compensation that’s broken, it’s the cost. We could lose Cripps in a couple of years to a top 4 side. It’s completely broken. The cap was expected to be the limiter but they overlooked that the top clubs are selling premiership glory and so aren’t paying market rates.Hawks have rorted it for all its worth. And the lower teams have all been raped,. WE did it when we were fab. The circle will turn. Maybe the FA needs to be reviewed so there is a cost to the gaining team as you said above.. How about the player has points allocated to him like F/S and academy draftees and if (Hawks) want (Cripps) in two years, they have to pay Carlton the going rate of 45000 points which would equate to them giving Carlton their first three picks in the 2020 draft. That would slow them down a bit. The current situation is never going to equalise anything as you said. I like the idea of assigning a minimum points value to the players value and then teams would know what an RFA/FA is worth before letting them go or be traded. However, I think they need to take a different angle and look at the draw instead of trading and drafting (although these can still be tweaked) for both a better competition and larger spread of "destination" clubs for players to go to. Firstly every team should be bracketed as per ladder position, 1-6, 7-12 & 13-18 You play the teams in your bracket from the previous year once at the start of the season (5 games). You then play the remaining teams until you have played everyone once (12 games). Have away games for the better bracketed teams to give the lower teams a home ground advantage. You then play the teams in your bracket from the previous year once more (5 games). Or if the could schedule it, you play your current bracket. Total = 22 games. It has several benefits: We get to see the top teams battle at the start of the year with little or no injuries with similar fitness levels. The bottom teams have a better chance at getting some points on the board at the start of the season. We will see better games at the end of the year when the final contenders are gearing up. There will be more chances of the mid bracket making the finals. The bottom teams get to really give their kids a fair taste of AFL level at either end of the year. All teams below the top 6 have more of a chance to improve for the next year and in the draft. This would make the competition a lot more even and produce better games for us to watch. The only drawback would be getting the AFL to take a risk and try something different with the possibility of either having less crowds or creating more. Anyway, that's just a left field thought.

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Thu May 24, 2018 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
Don't understand why people want to change FA rules when we are about to exploit them, or are we not?????

Author:	billc3 [ Fri May 25, 2018 10:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
SurreyBlue wrote: Don't understand why people want to change FA rules when we are about to exploit them, or are we not????? If you think we'll get Shiel, for nothing, flip the scenario and consider losing Cripps..... For nothing.... Go you good things

Author:	bondiblue [ Fri May 25, 2018 10:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
Blue Sombrero wrote: AIRCAV wrote: Free agency without cost to the team getting the FA is the farce. It’s allowed the top 4 clubs to get AA players at absolutely no cost. It’s not the compensation that’s broken, it’s the cost. We could lose Cripps in a couple of years to a top 4 side. It’s completely broken. The cap was expected to be the limiter but they overlooked that the top clubs are selling premiership glory and so aren’t paying market rates.Hawks have rorted it for all its worth. And the lower teams have all been raped,. WE did it when we were fab. The circle will turn. Maybe the FA needs to be reviewed so there is a cost to the gaining team as you said above.. How about the player has points allocated to him like F/S and academy draftees and if (Hawks) want (Cripps) in two years, they have to pay Carlton the going rate of 45000 points which would equate to them giving Carlton their first three picks in the 2020 draft. That would slow them down a bit. The current situation is never going to equalise anything as you said. You have no idea how big our "war chest" is for the next 2 years. I have an idea from what Ive been told and how they have achieved this flexibility. If you believe money talks...well it will, and we will not lose players we want to keep. SOS is talking to everyone's manager. No stone unturned. I don't like losing, especially by 100 points, but hey, look at the injury toll. I believe in the plan. I love the plan moving forward, and am going to love what happens in the next 2 years if the club stays the course.

Author:	Effes [ Fri May 25, 2018 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/why ... 4zhh6.html Why the Blues need an AFL hand-out By Jake Niall 25 May 2018 — 11:52am Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Send via Email Leave a comment On Sunday, Carlton were beaten by 109 points by the Demons, in what was surely the club's nadir under Brendon Bolton, whose team has won two of its past 19 matches, with games against Geelong and Sydney next.

Author:	BigKev [ Fri May 25, 2018 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
Effes wrote: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/why-the-blues-need-an-afl-hand-out-20180525-p4zhh6.html Why the Blues need an AFL hand-out By Jake Niall 25 May 2018 — 11:52am Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Send via Email Leave a comment On Sunday, Carlton were beaten by 109 points by the Demons, in what was surely the club's nadir under Brendon Bolton, whose team has won two of its past 19 matches, with games against Geelong and Sydney next. "Wounds are self-inflicted..." ... WTF is that supposed to mean? This "popular" bullsh*t opinion annoys the hell out of me. You could say the same thing about any club that struggles, but for some reason I only ever hear it said about Carlton. Why didn't we pick champions with every draft pick in the past ten years? Why didn't we just appoint the best AFL coach ever first time? Well, why didn't every other club? Every club is trying their best but it seems that some clubs are "unfortunate" whereas Carlton commits "self-harm". Anyway, rant over. Actually, not quite ... the one club that genuinely did commit self-harm through unbridled ambition, (and we all know which drug cheats I'm referring to), and everyone falls over backwards to excuse them. Ok ... I'm all good now.

Author:	sandramcd67 [ Fri May 25, 2018 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
Wow history lesson required for some we are not the only club guilty of rorting the system

Author:	rhys87 [ Fri May 25, 2018 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
We weren't spurned by Rockliff.......with the amount he wanted. Btw how is he going? Unprepared senior player. That's exactly what we need with this young team to set the example.

Author:	bondiblue [ Fri May 25, 2018 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
Not a priority pick but fair compensation the loss of FA Waite who has played 5 seasons. We got nothing because the AFL deemed too old. He's still playing. Obviously the AFL made a huge mistake. Pick 3 thanks. Then they can think of a Priority Pick too.

Page 21 of 108	All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	carntheblues [ Fri May 25, 2018 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
bondiblue wrote: Blue Sombrero wrote: AIRCAV wrote: Free agency without cost to the team getting the FA is the farce. It’s allowed the top 4 clubs to get AA players at absolutely no cost. It’s not the compensation that’s broken, it’s the cost. We could lose Cripps in a couple of years to a top 4 side. It’s completely broken. The cap was expected to be the limiter but they overlooked that the top clubs are selling premiership glory and so aren’t paying market rates.Hawks have rorted it for all its worth. And the lower teams have all been raped,. WE did it when we were fab. The circle will turn. Maybe the FA needs to be reviewed so there is a cost to the gaining team as you said above.. How about the player has points allocated to him like F/S and academy draftees and if (Hawks) want (Cripps) in two years, they have to pay Carlton the going rate of 45000 points which would equate to them giving Carlton their first three picks in the 2020 draft. That would slow them down a bit. The current situation is never going to equalise anything as you said. You have no idea how big our "war chest" is for the next 2 years. I have an idea from what Ive been told and how they have achieved this flexibility. If you believe money talks...well it will, and we will not lose players we want to keep. SOS is talking to everyone's manager. No stone unturned. I don't like losing, especially by 100 points, but hey, look at the injury toll. I believe in the plan. I love the plan moving forward, and am going to love what happens in the next 2 years if the club stays the course. Happy with that. We need to stay the course now. Any change and we go backwards even more. So onwards with development we go. Better next year and then years 5 and 6 - blue skies.

Author:	buzzaaaah [ Fri May 25, 2018 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
If Murphy walks, that restricts our ability to go after a free agent

Author:	billc3 [ Fri May 25, 2018 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
bondiblue wrote: Not a priority pick but fair compensation the loss of FA Waite who has played 5 seasons. We got nothing because the AFL deemed too old. He's still playing. Obviously the AFL made a huge mistake. Pick 3 thanks. Then they can think of a Priority Pick too. Investigate the ' 2 year contract and not enough $ for compo' then shedding players for salary cap? Do that while they're at it.... But..... Yeah, good luck with that! Go Blues

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Fri May 25, 2018 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
Effes wrote: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/why-the-blues-need-an-afl-hand-out-20180525-p4zhh6.html Why the Blues need an AFL hand-out By Jake Niall 25 May 2018 — 11:52am Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Send via Email Leave a comment On Sunday, Carlton were beaten by 109 points by the Demons, in what was surely the club's nadir under Brendon Bolton, whose team has won two of its past 19 matches, with games against Geelong and Sydney next. I’m embarrassed that my club is still looking/talking about handouts....

Author:	smithy [ Fri May 25, 2018 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
rhys87 wrote: We weren't spurned by Rockliff.......with the amount he wanted. Btw how is he going? Unprepared senior player. That's exactly what we need with this young team to set the example. Looked pretty good the last two weeks gotta say, but agree with your point.

Author:	kezza [ Fri May 25, 2018 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2018
buzzaaaah wrote: If Murphy walks, that restricts our ability to go after a free agent We wouldn't get much compo anyway. What free agents would really want to come to Carlton?