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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:08 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5984
Sidefx wrote:
It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club.

SOS is doing a great job so far and if you can't see that then you shouldn't be following football. The biggest issue we've had is stripping the team back to it's bare bones coupled with injuries has produced this season. We are virtually a new club with talented kids all staring their journey. And to reiterate it again for the millionth time the GWS rejects were brought in as VFL or B grade players so we had a least some bigger bodies around the club. Some were high draft picks and if they became more then that, it was a bonus and if not, they fitted the reason they were traded for.

If you're so hell bent on Stephen Wells being the best recruiter then you probably need to compare apples with apples and analyse his mistakes also:
2013 AFL Draft
#16 Darcy Lang - Geelong
#23 Matt Crouch - Adelaide
#24 Billy Hartung - Hawthorn
#26 Zach Merrett - Essendon***

And that's just a couple from the 2013 draft only.

Who did we get #13 Patrick Cripps and apart from Kelly and the Bont, look at the other teams that missed out on him.

My point is it's all good to sit here and analyse who we missed out on but unfortunately it's not as linear as that.


All recruiters make mistakes
I think that’s obvious

With all these circulating discussions
The bottom line is wins and losses

As Doc said it will be around 2 years before
We properly can judge


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:19 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 3581
AGRO wrote:
keogh wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
keogh wrote:
If anyone thinks Liam Jones should be on an AFL list

We need to review every facet of how the club functions and injuries
Have played their part but all clubs have injuries GWS had
Shiel
Scully
Patton
Corr
Griffen
Taranto
Williams
Not to mention the 4 guys on the bench injured

Get a decent recruiting team


So what you're saying is that Silvagni has done a terrible job of recruiting at Carlton, and injuries are no excuse for our poor performances. To back that up you cite the depth of the GWS list - listing a number of excellent players who did not play on the weekend as proof that our list is way off.

You do know who put together the GWS list don't you?


Silvangi recruited some guns for the giants
And for us
For the first time we have some top end talent which you should get right with the number of top picks he had at his disposal

And I assume it ain’t his fault entirely that Weitering was asked to
Do way too much which has hampered his progress
And McKay hasn’t been given enough opportunities

My beef is the recruitment of pretty much all of the GWS rejects
Lang OShea Mullett Lobbe Smedts Palmer
Given Jones a 2 year contract extension

Your treading water with that lot
Their not good enough

Do yourself a favour and have a look at premiership teams
And where the 22 players came from
Martin Rance Cotchin Riewoldt were all first rounders
And a couple of others like Rioli

But guys like Butler and Graham Lambert and many others in that teamdidn’t come
From a high pick in the draft

I reckon the most important person at a club these days is the
Head of recruitment
With the mess we were in 3 years ago
We simply had to get the best person for the job of head of recruiting
SOS ain’t the best

The fact that the club have stated they won’t make
As many changes to the list is a head in the sand moment

Injuries have decimated our defence this
year
MC Creddie is one bloke who I hope gets a decent run with
Injury because from what I saw from him he looks the goods
Doc and Williams back will help but the list has way too many holes
For my liking 3 years into to rebuild



Exactly - the 2015 Draft, SOS pulled up stumps at David Cuningham at pick 23, (aside from picking JSOS at Pick 53).

But there were others after pick 23 we could have had a look at if we’d managed our list properly.


4 picks inside 23 and 5 in 53. That’s enough picks at a high enough rate. You have to trade for more so the question would be what else would you have traded for another pick at the time given contracts and what we thought of the list we had not what we know now in hindsight.

All of the 2015 players look to be 100 game players.

Drafting isn’t a weakness since 2015 nor the number of players picked.

Getting them all on the field for more than 2 games in a row seems to be the bigger issue at the moment.

Look what consistency of playing with your team mates brings to other clubs.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:10 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1636
Sidefx wrote:
It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club.


What are you f##### talking about hindsight?, some of us autistic f###s who follow the T.A.C and Champs were literally on here for weeks before each draft imploring the club to take T.McLean and not touch B.B and DVR. To take Gresham, begging them not to take Bootsma. Take Tom Phillips etc etc. pleading with the club to start drafting midfielders 5 f##### years ago.
What is this revisionist excuse making shiite?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:22 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24306
Location: Kaloyasena
Hindsight is a dirty word here (and at the other place) and for the love of god, never ever mention more than one player you would have taken at pick 10.

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Winston Churchill


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:43 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5508
smithy wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club.


What are you f##### talking about hindsight?, some of us autistic f###s who follow the T.A.C and Champs were literally on here for weeks before each draft imploring the club to take T.McLean and not touch B.B and DVR. To take Gresham, begging them not to take Bootsma. Take Tom Phillips etc etc. pleading with the club to start drafting midfielders 5 f##### years ago.
What is this revisionist excuse making shiite?


Settle down princess!! Why don't you read the whole comment and the comments leading up to it? And before you further yourself on being the oracle of drafting because you watch the TAC, tell me why you're not a recruiter for the club?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:00 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5508
AGRO wrote:
Hindsight is a dirty word here (and at the other place) and for the love of god, never ever mention more than one player you would have taken at pick 10.


Roger that, noted! :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:14 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17566
smithy wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club.


What are you f##### talking about hindsight?, some of us autistic f###s who follow the T.A.C and Champs were literally on here for weeks before each draft imploring the club to take T.McLean and not touch B.B and DVR. To take Gresham, begging them not to take Bootsma. Take Tom Phillips etc etc. pleading with the club to start drafting midfielders 5 f##### years ago.
What is this revisionist excuse making shiite?


I searched for your posts about taking Tom Phillips before he was drafted. There are none Smithy. Same with Josh Bootsma.
As for Gresham, you wanted him with our second round pick. He wasn't available then. :? Charlie Curnow was our selection before him. Would you like to swap?

I appreciate you and others watch the TAC and offer informed views, and no doubt there are mistakes made, but we've been as effective as anyone of late IMO. People lauded as gun recruiters on this site have made plenty of high level errors as well. As we know, there is no perfection in this field.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:17 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 4517
Location: Blisstonia.
Blue Vain wrote:
smithy wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club.


What are you f##### talking about hindsight?, some of us autistic f###s who follow the T.A.C and Champs were literally on here for weeks before each draft imploring the club to take T.McLean and not touch B.B and DVR. To take Gresham, begging them not to take Bootsma. Take Tom Phillips etc etc. pleading with the club to start drafting midfielders 5 f##### years ago.
What is this revisionist excuse making shiite?


I searched for your posts about taking Tom Phillips before he was drafted. There are none Smithy. Same with Josh Bootsma.
As for Gresham, you wanted him with our second round pick. He wasn't available then. :? Charlie Curnow was our selection before him. Would you like to swap?

I appreciate you and others watch the TAC and offer informed views, and no doubt there are mistakes made, but we've been as effective as anyone of late IMO. People lauded as gun recruiters on this site have made plenty of high level errors as well. As we know, there is no perfection in this field.


Careful BV. Apparently bringing up previous posts makes you a cheap shot artist, but seeing as though you asked.....

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=30851&p=1217855&hilit=Markworth#p1217855

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=30852&p=1211139&hilit=waldhuter#p1211139

Smithy wanted Markworth, Waldhuter etc over Bootsma, and Murdoch, Paine, Dobosz, Bussey and Manson over Rowe.

Crisp would have been a good pick up.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am
Posts: 28221
Serious question marks over Kennedy's recruitment. Hope he overcomes the injuries.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 546
we have been slow for years and so we recruit kennedy.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:20 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 9296
Kennedy doesn't need to be the quickest... Cripps isn't.

We have plenty of speed elsewhere.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:30 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24306
Location: Kaloyasena

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Winston Churchill


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:49 am
Posts: 1582
The media hype surrounding Kennedy's ability as midfielder support for Cripps was significant last year.
Frankly I’ve got concerns over his recruitment , hopefully he can stay on the park next season, show us something.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:08 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17566
Rexy wrote:
Serious question marks over Kennedy's recruitment. Hope he overcomes the injuries.


Why questions over his recruitment? Are you suggesting he's injury prone?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:28 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 9296
Blue Vain wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Serious question marks over Kennedy's recruitment. Hope he overcomes the injuries.


Why questions over his recruitment? Are you suggesting he's injury prone?


Wellllllll..... :cry:

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Orandum est ut sit mens sana in corpore sano. Fortem posce animum mortis terrore carentem, qui spatium vitae extremum inter munera ponat naturae, qui ferre queat quoscumque labores.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10074
No concerns on Kennedy. Is a gun and will play 200 games for us.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:39 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:22 pm
Posts: 4678
Location: Melbourne
I like Kennedy! He's young, has had no pre-season, and in the last few games he's really come into the roll.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:47 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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ryan2000 wrote:
I like Kennedy! He's young, has had no pre-season, and in the last few games he's really come into the roll.

Won’t have one next year either.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:51 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17566
Yes he will. He's only out for 12 weeks. The new season doesn't start for the best part of 8 months.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1636
Blue Vain wrote:
smithy wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club.


What are you f##### talking about hindsight?, some of us autistic f###s who follow the T.A.C and Champs were literally on here for weeks before each draft imploring the club to take T.McLean and not touch B.B and DVR. To take Gresham, begging them not to take Bootsma. Take Tom Phillips etc etc. pleading with the club to start drafting midfielders 5 f##### years ago.
What is this revisionist excuse making shiite?


I searched for your posts about taking Tom Phillips before he was drafted. There are none Smithy. Same with Josh Bootsma.
As for Gresham, you wanted him with our second round pick. He wasn't available then. :? Charlie Curnow was our selection before him. Would you like to swap?

I appreciate you and others watch the TAC and offer informed views, and no doubt there are mistakes made, but we've been as effective as anyone of late IMO. People lauded as gun recruiters on this site have made plenty of high level errors as well. As we know, there is no perfection in this field.


I promise you they are there, keep looking.

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