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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:17 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1636
You could add Gary Ablett Snr and Tony Lockett in their prime into our forward line with little difference in outcome.. we would still get pumped every week.
Unless that midfield gets a whole better; moves the ball quicker and finds some aggression, it does not matter who is down forward there, they stand little chance against 3-4 defenders minimum.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:18 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10059
sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
We did overpay for McGovern. Probably that last 2nd rd for a 2019 3rd over.

He was worth a 2nd and mcadam I reckon, considering he was contracted.


This.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:31 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 1826
SurreyBlue wrote:
sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
We did overpay for McGovern. Probably that last 2nd rd for a 2019 3rd over.

He was worth a 2nd and mcadam I reckon, considering he was contracted.


This.

Lets all have a LAUGH!!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:50 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3448
Adelaide paid overs for Gibbs

We paid slightly overs for McGovern

Shrewd business sense...next time a deal needs to be done with Adel, they will be more prepared to work through the trade rather than stubbornly and maybe irrationally walk away from any negotiations cause they were burned twice

We need to be seen as shrewd, decisive and strong negotiators who are prepared to also work with the third party, not overtly against them

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:45 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:02 am
Posts: 1770
99prelim wrote:
Adelaide paid overs for Gibbs


People keep saying that but didn't they give us 10 and 15 and we returned 19 in this years draft. I think Adelaide did very well.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:15 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:54 pm
Posts: 2503
Clayman wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Adelaide paid overs for Gibbs


People keep saying that but didn't they give us 10 and 15 and we returned 19 in this years draft. I think Adelaide did very well.

10, 16 & 28 for Gibbs, 21 & 40

*across 2 drafts.

Or, if I’m getting all the details right:

Gibbs, 2017 pick 40, 2018 pick 21, 2018 pick 40 and McAdam.
for
O’Brien, Kennedy, DeKoning, McGovern and Crows 2019 3rd round pick.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:46 am 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:23 am
Posts: 48
Paddycripps wrote:
we will now have three genuine tall targets up there. Cannot recall the last time Carlton had such a set up.


Whitnall, Hamill and Beaumont?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:48 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
acr wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
we will now have three genuine tall targets up there. Cannot recall the last time Carlton had such a set up.


Whitnall, Hamill and Beaumont?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Kreuzer, Warnock and Hampson?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:13 am 
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formerly Yazzamatazz
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Location: NowHere.....
Kernahan, Spalding, Pearce.

Whitnall, Fevola was a pretty good duo for a short period.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:37 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Lace Out wrote:
Kernahan, Spalding, Pearce.

Whitnall, Fevola was a pretty good duo for a short period.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


During that short period, around 1999 there was also Hamill with lance and Fev.
They were young, tough and awesome.
They should have played the next 5-6 years together.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:09 am 
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John Nicholls
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Lace Out wrote:
Kernahan, Spalding, Pearce.



I'm getting that kind of vibe with Charlie, McK and McG.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:53 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5990
Location: Melbourne
bondiblue wrote:
Lace Out wrote:
Kernahan, Spalding, Pearce.

Whitnall, Fevola was a pretty good duo for a short period.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


During that short period, around 1999 there was also Hamill with lance and Fev.
They were young, tough and awesome.
They should have played the next 5-6 years together.


The 2000 setup was great up forward. Remember we had Lappin and Hickmott as well. Then there was Kouta to wonder down there as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:05 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5990
Location: Melbourne
keogh wrote:
There is always speculation
Will Fasolo turn it around

McAdam is that sort of Fasolo type player
Is younger than Fasolo
But unproven at AFL
The SANFL is a shit standard
All these things are part of the equation



If you look at McGoverns output it’s not that great
We don’t need another player like him
We need mids
Stands out like a sore thumb

Some amazing highlights buts that’s it

As I said it’s panic The club don’t want to wait any longer
The club was in a bit of shock with some of the efforts
this year
The Fremantle first half in Melbourne
The Brisbane game
The GWS game

It’s the short term fix

Guys it doesn’t work
If The recruiting staff are any good
we would have got at least one decent mid
from the 20s and greater depth if we had kept
both of them

Look at MCGoverns output
It isn’t that impressive

Carlton have not adapted to how you
build a premiership team since the draft and salary cap
took full effect 20 years ago

Posters here give examples of teams getting star players
for draft picks
Don’t forget that these teams were better than we are now
By a long way


despite a change in off field personnel
the club continues to be inpatient
We need more depth in the middle and build are list with kids

The AFL offer us some help and we piss it up the wall
With freebies from the lower leagues
McAdam may be a dud
McGovern may be a star
There may be no good mids after pick 25

If it’s the opposite then the people in charge at Carlton should
just @#$%&! off

Because mistakes aren’t learnt from


There is no 100% way of doing things, you are looking at things too much in black and white.

We have a lot of kids on our list, but literally no one decent older than Docherty and younger than Ed Curnow, which is where most sides core exists.

As you mentioned Newman is a good pickup and will be a definite upgrade on Oshite, Mullett and Shaw.

Setterfield looks a sound deal, and worth the risk.

Fasolo i disagree being a poor deal, he’s proven he can play at an above average AFL level and fills a need, where we have literally 0 decent small or mid sized forwards. Also he had way more natural talent than Wright had, and we got him for nothing.

McGovern was a deal we had to do, and he’s a proven above average AFL player and will ease pressure on Charlie and McKay up forward as another target. Also even though he’s a different size, this should mean we very rarely see Casboult playing, and don’t have to throw Weitering forward anymore.

It’s not like every club who wins a flag had a flawless strategy in getting there.

You are reimagining the past to make it seem like West Coast are geniuses in everything they did in order to get a flag. 7 months ago Redden looked a bust, Jetta considered rubbish and they had no midfield.

Look at any successful side and they have all had different paths getting there. Doggies sold the farm for Boyd which can’t be considered a good idea all things considered but they still got a flag.

Richmond has a complete bust on Yarran but won a flag anyway.

Reiminging Mayne as some shrewd genius move by the Pies is really going into another dimension, when Buckley described his whole contract as a mix up basically.

Pies getting Wells can hardly be considered a success either.

We can go on and on. Just seems you are fixated on nit picking anything until we start being successful on field. And at the end of the day that is what we all want, but I’m confident what we have done this off season will get us closer there, not further away.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:27 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Adam Chatfield wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Lace Out wrote:
Kernahan, Spalding, Pearce.

Whitnall, Fevola was a pretty good duo for a short period.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


During that short period, around 1999 there was also Hamill with lance and Fev.
They were young, tough and awesome.
They should have played the next 5-6 years together.


The 2000 setup was great up forward. Remember we had Lappin and Hickmott as well. Then there was Kouta to wonder down there as well.


All goal kickers. All avenues for goal. All great options.
All good marks.

McKay Curnow McGovern are a taller and more mobile Forward targets.
Cripps drifts down ala Kouta....

Who are the 2 small forwards other than the rotating mids such as Murphy, Fisher, SPS ?

Fasolo is one for a year or two till the kids ( Polson? LeBois? Owies?) develop: not sure about the 2 former in brackets.
I'm hoping the electric Pickett will be one for 5-6 years.

IMO we need to find a bonafide speedy small forward incase the kids mentioned above fail/ injured.
Hold great hope with Owies from the little Ive seen: strong body, tenacious, quick, intense, great runner, defensive & offensive mindset (and 22 yo in 2019)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:30 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Adam Chatfield wrote:
keogh wrote:
There is always speculation
Will Fasolo turn it around

McAdam is that sort of Fasolo type player
Is younger than Fasolo
But unproven at AFL
The SANFL is a shit standard
All these things are part of the equation



If you look at McGoverns output it’s not that great
We don’t need another player like him
We need mids
Stands out like a sore thumb

Some amazing highlights buts that’s it

As I said it’s panic The club don’t want to wait any longer
The club was in a bit of shock with some of the efforts
this year
The Fremantle first half in Melbourne
The Brisbane game
The GWS game

It’s the short term fix

Guys it doesn’t work
If The recruiting staff are any good
we would have got at least one decent mid
from the 20s and greater depth if we had kept
both of them

Look at MCGoverns output
It isn’t that impressive

Carlton have not adapted to how you
build a premiership team since the draft and salary cap
took full effect 20 years ago

Posters here give examples of teams getting star players
for draft picks
Don’t forget that these teams were better than we are now
By a long way


despite a change in off field personnel
the club continues to be inpatient
We need more depth in the middle and build are list with kids

The AFL offer us some help and we piss it up the wall
With freebies from the lower leagues
McAdam may be a dud
McGovern may be a star
There may be no good mids after pick 25

If it’s the opposite then the people in charge at Carlton should
just @#$%&! off

Because mistakes aren’t learnt from


There is no 100% way of doing things, you are looking at things too much in black and white.

We have a lot of kids on our list, but literally no one decent older than Docherty and younger than Ed Curnow, which is where most sides core exists.

As you mentioned Newman is a good pickup and will be a definite upgrade on Oshite, Mullett and Shaw.

Setterfield looks a sound deal, and worth the risk.

Fasolo i disagree being a poor deal, he’s proven he can play at an above average AFL level and fills a need, where we have literally 0 decent small or mid sized forwards. Also he had way more natural talent than Wright had, and we got him for nothing.

McGovern was a deal we had to do, and he’s a proven above average AFL player and will ease pressure on Charlie and McKay up forward as another target. Also even though he’s a different size, this should mean we very rarely see Casboult playing, and don’t have to throw Weitering forward anymore.

It’s not like every club who wins a flag had a flawless strategy in getting there.

You are reimagining the past to make it seem like West Coast are geniuses in everything they did in order to get a flag. 7 months ago Redden looked a bust, Jetta considered rubbish and they had no midfield.

Look at any successful side and they have all had different paths getting there. Doggies sold the farm for Boyd which can’t be considered a good idea all things considered but they still got a flag.

Richmond has a complete bust on Yarran but won a flag anyway.

Reiminging Mayne as some shrewd genius move by the Pies is really going into another dimension, when Buckley described his whole contract as a mix up basically.

Pies getting Wells can hardly be considered a success either.

We can go on and on. Just seems you are fixated on nit picking anything until we start being successful on field. And at the end of the day that is what we all want, but I’m confident what we have done this off season will get us closer there, not further away.


Great post.
Great outlook.
So true.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:24 am 
Offline
Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
This rebuild of the last 3 years isn’t
a rebuild
Our or more appropriately SOS’s obsession
with GWS has left us with a list that is short on talent

The combination of injuries and youth were partly
the reason we had our worst season in the clubs history

Personally I don’t rate
Plownan
Kennedy
Pickett
Marchbank
Phillips
As high as others
Already we can see the effects of these GWS rejects
on our list with a number of them being delisted
after contributing SFA to the sides”rebuild

On top of this we have recruited blokes who have been spared
the arse because we have already delisted close to ten players
And the premature retirement of the 2 Irish Boyd
Byrne is a big loss
That guy could play
We still have
Garlett
Jones
Lang in our list who arnt up to it

Giving Murphy a two year contract is ridiculous
given the guys output in recent years and he is 32 next year

Simpson along with Cripps our best player over the last 4 years
has only one year left

Personally I don’t rate Cuningham
Looks a million dollars when he has the pill but simply doesn’t
get it enough
Silvangi doesn’t have the physical tools to play the game at the highest level
He has been tried in every position gives it his all
but in my opinion falls short
Le Bois has done nothing in 2 years
Thomas and Casboult arnt going to get better
Kreuzer is about cooked

The list still has more holes than a piece of Swiss cheese
and in my opinion like when the club sacked Ratten and appointed
The old Prick we have over rated the list

And yet bar Walsh we rule ourselves out of this draft
And a fair bit of 2019 draft giving up our second round pick
for Setterfield

I’m not ranting for the sake of it
It’s what I believe
To give up good picks in the draft IMO is the
wrong strategy

We simply don’t recruit as well as other clubs
And we don’t develop them as well as other clubs
Why we don’t have a stand alone VFL team
Despite all this time

We will be more competitive next year
with a better run with injuries
But I still think we could have done better with
Our trades and recruiting


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:00 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:39 pm
Posts: 15848
Keogh, buy a fullstop.

Le Bois is a rookie.
Casboult was shopped around.
Byrne was his decision.
Murphy wasn't hanging around on a 1 yr contract.

Personally, I think if you reckon anyone at the club is delusional enough to overrate our list, you're kidding yourself.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:54 am 
Offline
Ken Hands

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:16 pm
Posts: 481
Keogh if we go by you we should close the club completely and throw in the towel .Who do you rate apart from Cripps .You appear to have a problem with our new recruits,fair enough but lets wait a year ,Ask any Adelaide supporter and they are ropeable McGovern left.I am rapt he nominated us as a club how many clubs who win 2 games a year get nominated as a club to join .I think we have recruited well but time will tell ,be positive


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:02 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 7749
keogh wrote:
This rebuild of the last 3 years isn’t
a rebuild
Our or more appropriately SOS’s obsession
with GWS has left us with a list that is short on talent

The combination of injuries and youth were partly
the reason we had our worst season in the clubs history

Personally I don’t rate
Plownan
Kennedy
Pickett
Marchbank
Phillips
As high as others
Already we can see the effects of these GWS rejects
on our list with a number of them being delisted
after contributing SFA to the sides”rebuild

On top of this we have recruited blokes who have been spared
the arse because we have already delisted close to ten players
And the premature retirement of the 2 Irish Boyd
Byrne is a big loss
That guy could play
We still have
Garlett
Jones
Lang in our list who arnt up to it

Giving Murphy a two year contract is ridiculous
given the guys output in recent years and he is 32 next year

Simpson along with Cripps our best player over the last 4 years
has only one year left

Personally I don’t rate Cuningham
Looks a million dollars when he has the pill but simply doesn’t
get it enough
Silvangi doesn’t have the physical tools to play the game at the highest level
He has been tried in every position gives it his all
but in my opinion falls short
Le Bois has done nothing in 2 years
Thomas and Casboult arnt going to get better
Kreuzer is about cooked

The list still has more holes than a piece of Swiss cheese
and in my opinion like when the club sacked Ratten and appointed
The old Prick we have over rated the list

And yet bar Walsh we rule ourselves out of this draft
And a fair bit of 2019 draft giving up our second round pick
for Setterfield

I’m not ranting for the sake of it
It’s what I believe
To give up good picks in the draft IMO is the
wrong strategy

We simply don’t recruit as well as other clubs
And we don’t develop them as well as other clubs
Why we don’t have a stand alone VFL team
Despite all this time

We will be more competitive next year
with a better run with injuries
But I still think we could have done better with
Our trades and recruiting


Whatever.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:38 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:
This rebuild of the last 3 years isn’t
a rebuild
Our or more appropriately SOS’s obsession
with GWS has left us with a list that is short on talent


The combination of injuries and youth were partly
the reason we had our worst season in the clubs history


Personally I don’t rate
Plownan
Kennedy
Pickett
Marchbank
Phillips
As high as others

Already we can see the effects of these GWS rejects
on our list with a number of them being delisted
after contributing SFA to the sides”rebuild

On top of this we have recruited blokes who have been spared
the arse because we have already delisted close to ten players
And the premature retirement of the 2 Irish Boyd
Byrne is a big loss
That guy could play
We still have
Garlett
Jones
Lang in our list who arnt up to it

Giving Murphy a two year contract is ridiculous
given the guys output in recent years and he is 32 next year

Simpson along with Cripps our best player over the last 4 years
has only one year left

Personally I don’t rate Cuningham
Looks a million dollars when he has the pill but simply doesn’t
get it enough
Silvangi doesn’t have the physical tools to play the game at the highest level
He has been tried in every position gives it his all
but in my opinion falls short
Le Bois has done nothing in 2 years
Thomas and Casboult arnt going to get better
Kreuzer is about cooked


The list still has more holes than a piece of Swiss cheese
and in my opinion like when the club sacked Ratten and appointed
The old Prick we have over rated the list

And yet bar Walsh we rule ourselves out of this draft
And a fair bit of 2019 draft giving up our second round pick
for Setterfield


I’m not ranting for the sake of it
It’s what I believe
To give up good picks in the draft IMO is the
wrong strategy


We simply don’t recruit as well as other clubs
And we don’t develop them as well as other clubs

Why we don’t have a stand alone VFL team
Despite all this time

We will be more competitive next year
with a better run with injuries
But I still think we could have done better with
Our trades and recruiting



Positive keogh

Negative keogh

Keogh the doubter

Keogh the recruiter

You'd be the only person in the whole football world who says this: "This rebuild of the last 3 years isn’t
a rebuild". Nice to be unique, but its a bit far fetched, and maybe reflects your state of mind.

Well at least you have an opinion, and are passionate.

I liked Adam Chatfield's post above. Take a close look and try and see there's light at the end of the tunnel if you are to look....I guess you have when Positive Keogh is your persona.

I can't wait to catch up with you for a :beer: when we string 3 wins in a row next year. :thumbsup:

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