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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:52 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 3280
keogh wrote:
If anyone thinks Liam Jones should be on an AFL list

We need to review every facet of how the club functions and injuries
Have played their part but all clubs have injuries GWS had
Shiel
Scully
Patton
Corr
Griffen
Taranto
Williams
Not to mention the 4 guys on the bench injured

Get a decent recruiting team


So what you're saying is that Silvagni has done a terrible job of recruiting at Carlton, and injuries are no excuse for our poor performances. To back that up you cite the depth of the GWS list - listing a number of excellent players who did not play on the weekend as proof that our list is way off.

You do know who put together the GWS list don't you?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:58 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:49 am
Posts: 1581
Silvagni has not been terrible but from this year onwards with an upgraded team Brodie & Agresta there no excuses. Not all his past selections have been shining stars.
We just have to get it right form this positio of strength in 2018 draft onwards.
Also we need desperatly need a strong footy Ops mngr.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:53 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
bluechampion wrote:
keogh wrote:
If anyone thinks Liam Jones should be on an AFL list

We need to review every facet of how the club functions and injuries
Have played their part but all clubs have injuries GWS had
Shiel
Scully
Patton
Corr
Griffen
Taranto
Williams
Not to mention the 4 guys on the bench injured

Get a decent recruiting team


So what you're saying is that Silvagni has done a terrible job of recruiting at Carlton, and injuries are no excuse for our poor performances. To back that up you cite the depth of the GWS list - listing a number of excellent players who did not play on the weekend as proof that our list is way off.

You do know who put together the GWS list don't you?


Silvangi recruited some guns for the giants
And for us
For the first time we have some top end talent which you should get right with the number of top picks he had at his disposal

And I assume it ain’t his fault entirely that Weitering was asked to
Do way too much which has hampered his progress
And McKay hasn’t been given enough opportunities

My beef is the recruitment of pretty much all of the GWS rejects
Lang OShea Mullett Lobbe Smedts Palmer
Given Jones a 2 year contract extension

Your treading water with that lot
Their not good enough

Do yourself a favour and have a look at premiership teams
And where the 22 players came from
Martin Rance Cotchin Riewoldt were all first rounders
And a couple of others like Rioli

But guys like Butler and Graham Lambert and many others in that teamdidn’t come
From a high pick in the draft

I reckon the most important person at a club these days is the
Head of recruitment
With the mess we were in 3 years ago
We simply had to get the best person for the job of head of recruiting
SOS ain’t the best

The fact that the club have stated they won’t make
As many changes to the list is a head in the sand moment

Injuries have decimated our defence this
year
MC Creddie is one bloke who I hope gets a decent run with
Injury because from what I saw from him he looks the goods
Doc and Williams back will help but the list has way too many holes
For my liking 3 years into to rebuild


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:31 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:06 pm
Posts: 3921
Location: Steven Seagal's Martial Arts Academy
bmaurizio wrote:
Silvagni has not been terrible but from this year onwards with an upgraded team Brodie & Agresta there no excuses. Not all his past selections have been shining stars.
We just have to get it right form this positio of strength in 2018 draft onwards.
Also we need desperatly need a strong footy Ops mngr.


Wasn't Brodie already in place for the previous draft?
i.e. Dow & O'Brien ? etc

Is that not the case?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:36 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
Posts: 4716
Location: Parliament House, Canberra
Who is the best recruiter then keogh?

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:05 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:08 am
Posts: 265
Location: Melbourne
DocSherrin III wrote:
kezza wrote:
There is a rumour on BF that Gold Coast are showing interest in Levi.


Can't get a game in the worst team in the competition...pick 74 sounds about right.


If the fax machine breaks during the fireworks interval of the 2nd day of live trading (brought to you live from Crown Casino by our premier sponsors BetNow BetPlus BetOften) we could end up with 7 AND 4!

Plus a sneaky PP!

With the Hendo pick still in hand.....

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!@#$ off Essendon**** Just !@#$ right off. SCUM.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:11 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:08 am
Posts: 265
Location: Melbourne
keogh wrote:
Mate
You might think what I write is boring
But the Carlton Football Club has been part of my life for
Nearly 50 years
It matters to me
To see us ridiculed like that on Sunday
Is embarrassing
I watch every game from my couch in WA
I just hate seeing us be so shit

A priority prick is just a temporary band aid

And it won’t change until we have the right people
In the right jobs
If you think I’m boring go on some other site


Plus that!

Trade it all for Judd!

_________________
!@#$ off Essendon**** Just !@#$ right off. SCUM.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:42 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
bluechampion wrote:
keogh wrote:
If anyone thinks Liam Jones should be on an AFL list

We need to review every facet of how the club functions and injuries
Have played their part but all clubs have injuries GWS had
Shiel
Scully
Patton
Corr
Griffen
Taranto
Williams
Not to mention the 4 guys on the bench injured

Get a decent recruiting team


So what you're saying is that Silvagni has done a terrible job of recruiting at Carlton, and injuries are no excuse for our poor performances. To back that up you cite the depth of the GWS list - listing a number of excellent players who did not play on the weekend as proof that our list is way off.

You do know who put together the GWS list don't you?


SOS reported to someone who knew what he was doing at GWS, SOS was never the main man (especially at the beginning of his tenure)...

Even though he “reports to” McKay, SOS has total control/final say at Carlton (not so at GWS)

Massive, massive difference, reflected by the results...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:50 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24282
Location: Kaloyasena
Wasn’t that Gubby Allan, who SOS reported to at GWS?

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:58 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24282
Location: Kaloyasena
keogh wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
keogh wrote:
If anyone thinks Liam Jones should be on an AFL list

We need to review every facet of how the club functions and injuries
Have played their part but all clubs have injuries GWS had
Shiel
Scully
Patton
Corr
Griffen
Taranto
Williams
Not to mention the 4 guys on the bench injured

Get a decent recruiting team


So what you're saying is that Silvagni has done a terrible job of recruiting at Carlton, and injuries are no excuse for our poor performances. To back that up you cite the depth of the GWS list - listing a number of excellent players who did not play on the weekend as proof that our list is way off.

You do know who put together the GWS list don't you?


Silvangi recruited some guns for the giants
And for us
For the first time we have some top end talent which you should get right with the number of top picks he had at his disposal

And I assume it ain’t his fault entirely that Weitering was asked to
Do way too much which has hampered his progress
And McKay hasn’t been given enough opportunities

My beef is the recruitment of pretty much all of the GWS rejects
Lang OShea Mullett Lobbe Smedts Palmer
Given Jones a 2 year contract extension

Your treading water with that lot
Their not good enough

Do yourself a favour and have a look at premiership teams
And where the 22 players came from
Martin Rance Cotchin Riewoldt were all first rounders
And a couple of others like Rioli

But guys like Butler and Graham Lambert and many others in that teamdidn’t come
From a high pick in the draft

I reckon the most important person at a club these days is the
Head of recruitment
With the mess we were in 3 years ago
We simply had to get the best person for the job of head of recruiting
SOS ain’t the best

The fact that the club have stated they won’t make
As many changes to the list is a head in the sand moment

Injuries have decimated our defence this
year
MC Creddie is one bloke who I hope gets a decent run with
Injury because from what I saw from him he looks the goods
Doc and Williams back will help but the list has way too many holes
For my liking 3 years into to rebuild



Exactly - the 2015 Draft, SOS pulled up stumps at David Cuningham at pick 23, (aside from picking JSOS at Pick 53).

But there were others after pick 23 we could have had a look at if we’d managed our list properly.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
CarltonClem wrote:
Who is the best recruiter then keogh?

Stephen Wells from Geelong


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:49 pm 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
Posts: 4716
Location: Parliament House, Canberra
keogh wrote:
CarltonClem wrote:
Who is the best recruiter then keogh?

Stephen Wells from Geelong


He's never going to be available.

_________________
"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:05 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
With a bucket load of cash the right conditions
Wells has been there a long time
He may need a change of scenery


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:09 am 
Offline
Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
Toranasaurus wrote:
keogh wrote:
Mate
You might think what I write is boring
But the Carlton Football Club has been part of my life for
Nearly 50 years
It matters to me
To see us ridiculed like that on Sunday
Is embarrassing
I watch every game from my couch in WA
I just hate seeing us be so shit

A priority prick is just a temporary band aid

And it won’t change until we have the right people
In the right jobs
If you think I’m boring go on some other site


Plus that!

Trade it all for Judd!

Nice typo


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:13 am 
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Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5461
It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club.

SOS is doing a great job so far and if you can't see that then you shouldn't be following football. The biggest issue we've had is stripping the team back to it's bare bones coupled with injuries has produced this season. We are virtually a new club with talented kids all staring their journey. And to reiterate it again for the millionth time the GWS rejects were brought in as VFL or B grade players so we had a least some bigger bodies around the club. Some were high draft picks and if they became more then that, it was a bonus and if not, they fitted the reason they were traded for.

If you're so hell bent on Stephen Wells being the best recruiter then you probably need to compare apples with apples and analyse his mistakes also:
2013 AFL Draft
#16 Darcy Lang - Geelong
#23 Matt Crouch - Adelaide
#24 Billy Hartung - Hawthorn
#26 Zach Merrett - Essendon**

And that's just a couple from the 2013 draft only.

Who did we get #13 Patrick Cripps and apart from Kelly and the Bont, look at the other teams that missed out on him.

My point is it's all good to sit here and analyse who we missed out on but unfortunately it's not as linear as that.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:30 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm
Posts: 16877
keogh wrote:
With a bucket load of cash the right conditions
Wells has been there a long time
He may need a change of scenery


Keogh...Wells is a Geelong person. He grew up there and (somewhat shockingly) loves the place. He also loves his employer. I doubt that money would entice him, nor the pressures that would come with the Carlton job. He has familiarity and contentment. With his record, the job would be his until he decides to pass the baton. He's closing in on 60. I could go on...but I don't think I have to.

SOS is the guy. You don't have to like his work, but you have to get used to the fact that he is the one whose body of work will make or break this footy club over the next 12-24 months. It's the SOS and Bolts show. I'm probably at about 60% and holding as to whether that combination will work. One thing I am sure of though is if we're in pretty much the same place this time next year, the Board will split that partnership up and it won't be Stephen Silvagni moving on. He's the guy.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:48 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24282
Location: Kaloyasena
The problem is that Hughes/Rogers were so bad, that anybody would be an improvement.

SOS is better, but that doesn’t mean he’s the one or the right one.

But there are too many statue builders around the place who think that SOS is the messiah or they come out with “trust in SOS” - that kind of thinking is not going to take us to the promised land, but at least we only have 17 years left in the wilderness- plenty of Manna to eat in the meantime.


:thumbsup:

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:15 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5461
I don't think anyone is saying he's the "Messiah" but in the same breath, he hasn't really done anything that's so bad he should have his job in question either.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:18 am 
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Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:04 pm
Posts: 47242
Location: Prison Island
#TrustTheSossess

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Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:30 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
Posts: 7778
Sidefx wrote:
It's so easy to sit here now with hindsight vision and analyse what we could of had and should've done. And as time goes by we will see more missed opportunities in the drafts, but this is not just for our club.

SOS is doing a great job so far and if you can't see that then you shouldn't be following football. The biggest issue we've had is stripping the team back to it's bare bones coupled with injuries has produced this season. We are virtually a new club with talented kids all staring their journey. And to reiterate it again for the millionth time the GWS rejects were brought in as VFL or B grade players so we had a least some bigger bodies around the club. Some were high draft picks and if they became more then that, it was a bonus and if not, they fitted the reason they were traded for.

If you're so hell bent on Stephen Wells being the best recruiter then you probably need to compare apples with apples and analyse his mistakes also:
2013 AFL Draft
#16 Darcy Lang - Geelong
#23 Matt Crouch - Adelaide
#24 Billy Hartung - Hawthorn
#26 Zach Merrett - Essendon***

And that's just a couple from the 2013 draft only.

Who did we get #13 Patrick Cripps and apart from Kelly and the Bont, look at the other teams that missed out on him.

My point is it's all good to sit here and analyse who we missed out on but unfortunately it's not as linear as that.


He also would have drafted Troy Menzel, if he had the chance. Great at his job, but clearly not perfect.


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