TalkingCarlton :: View topic - R17: Carlton Vs WBD Post Match Discussion

BigKev wrote:

A ball up 1m out from their goal line and Kruezer taps it back into play, (and they goal).
Things like that from an experienced player disappoint me more that skill errors from fringe players.

Kreuzer is a great player and the heart of the club but his tap work is not good.
People rave about his getting hitouts but this week he was no better than any other week. Even against Bont, his taps were missing targets and sometis even going to an opposition player.
There were two or three superb taps to advantage today from our rucks.

Out of 54.

Give me a break. If he hits it through, it's a free kick. If he hits it over the boundary, it's a free kick.
Yes it would be nice if he could hit it 20 metres away but he has a 105kg ruckman bodying up on him trying to prevent him getting his hands to the ball let alone allowing him to hit it where he wants.

Blue Sombrero wrote:

BigKev wrote:

A ball up 1m out from their goal line and Kruezer taps it back into play, (and they goal).
Things like that from an experienced player disappoint me more that skill errors from fringe players.

Kreuzer had 20 hit outs to advantage!

Blue Vain wrote:

So the only alternative is to aim for the centre of the goal square?

scottopee wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

BigKev wrote:

A ball up 1m out from their goal line and Kruezer taps it back into play, (and they goal).
Things like that from an experienced player disappoint me more that skill errors from fringe players.

Kreuzer had 20 hit outs to advantage!

He had two or three superb taps to advantage.
Many of the others just fell closer to our players than theirs.

scottopee wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

BigKev wrote:

A ball up 1m out from their goal line and Kruezer taps it back into play, (and they goal).
Things like that from an experienced player disappoint me more that skill errors from fringe players.

Kreuzer had 20 hit outs to advantage!

He had two or three superb taps to advantage.
Many of the others just fell closer to our players than theirs, sometimes at Kreuzer's own feet and don't mean much.

It's like saying Casboult is a good forward because he has a lot of shots at goal and most of them are pretty close to going through. He only kicks 2 a game, though.

When a 200cm ruck goes up against a 193 mid, he should be able to put the ball on the chest of a runner or hit it into his path to run on to or even to a space. Kreuzer v Bont couldn't do that consistently. There was one occasion, just one where he actually backhanded it clear of the pack towards our goal.
If you want to know what a good tap ruckman looks like look at Sandilands, Gawn or Maric of a few years back or Natanui at his best where he taps short, long and not just to his feet. If you want to know what I measure rucks against, go back to Nicholls, and Farmer who were about 186 tall rucking against Len Thompson who was 195. Yes, I know they were different times but they could actually direct the ball towards their rovers and not just get their hands to it.
As I said. Kreuzer is a lot of things but he is not a good tap ruckman. Mind you, apart from Gawn, of the rucks actually playing at the moment, none really stands out as one.

Read the post. I'm sure he was trying to hit it wide but he has another ruckman bodying up on him and trying to stop him getting his hands to the ball.
I'm sure that if you make the opposition disappear, he could put it on a 5 cent piece for you.

Blue Sombrero wrote:

scottopee wrote:

Blue Sombrero wrote:

BigKev wrote:

A ball up 1m out from their goal line and Kruezer taps it back into play, (and they goal).
Things like that from an experienced player disappoint me more that skill errors from fringe players.

Kreuzer had 20 hit outs to advantage!

He had two or three superb taps to advantage.
Many of the others just fell closer to our players than theirs.

Yep, that's pretty much the definition of "to advantage" :lol:

No it isn't.
Hitting the ball closer to our players than theirs. If a midfielder can't win the ball in that situation more times than not, it's not the ruckmans fault.

I'd give up if I was you. It's just becoming embarrassing now.

Author:	scottopee [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R17: Carlton Vs WBD Post Match Discussion
Blue Sombrero wrote: BigKev wrote: A ball up 1m out from their goal line and Kruezer taps it back into play, (and they goal). Things like that from an experienced player disappoint me more that skill errors from fringe players. Kreuzer is a great player and the heart of the club but his tap work is not good. People rave about his getting hitouts but this week he was no better than any other week. Even against Bont, his taps were missing targets and sometis even going to an opposition player. There were two or three superb taps to advantage today from our rucks. Out of 54. Kreuzer had 20 hit outs to advantage!

Author:	frank dardew [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R17: Carlton Vs WBD Post Match Discussion
Must have been at another game Kreuzer was excellent again on the weekend and I suspect only he Gibbs and Jones actually won their position on the day

Author:	Blue Vain [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R17: Carlton Vs WBD Post Match Discussion
Yep. Not to mention, the Dogs midfielders are roving to Kruezer as well. They're not going to stand 3 metres off our midfielders and let them have a free run at the ball. They're in our midfielders pockets trying to get the tap as well. There's some very naive and uninformed comments in this thread over the past couple of days.

Author:	BigKev [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R17: Carlton Vs WBD Post Match Discussion
Blue Vain wrote: Give me a break. If he hits it through, it's a free kick. If he hits it over the boundary, it's a free kick. Yes it would be nice if he could hit it 20 metres away but he has a 105kg ruckman bodying up on him trying to prevent him getting his hands to the ball let alone allowing him to hit it where he wants. So the only alternative is to aim for the centre of the goal square?

Author:	Blue Vain [ Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R17: Carlton Vs WBD Post Match Discussion
Read the post. I'm sure he was trying to hit it wide but he has another ruckman bodying up on him and trying to stop him getting his hands to the ball. I'm sure that if you make the opposition disappear, he could put it on a 5 cent piece for you.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

R17: Carlton Vs WBD Post Match Discussion http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35874	Page 9 of 9

Author:	Blue Sombrero [ Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R17: Carlton Vs WBD Post Match Discussion
scottopee wrote: Blue Sombrero wrote: BigKev wrote: A ball up 1m out from their goal line and Kruezer taps it back into play, (and they goal). Things like that from an experienced player disappoint me more that skill errors from fringe players. Kreuzer is a great player and the heart of the club but his tap work is not good. People rave about his getting hitouts but this week he was no better than any other week. Even against Bont, his taps were missing targets and sometis even going to an opposition player. There were two or three superb taps to advantage today from our rucks. Out of 54. Kreuzer had 20 hit outs to advantage! He had two or three superb taps to advantage. Many of the others just fell closer to our players than theirs, sometimes at Kreuzer's own feet and don't mean much. It's like saying Casboult is a good forward because he has a lot of shots at goal and most of them are pretty close to going through. He only kicks 2 a game, though. When a 200cm ruck goes up against a 193 mid, he should be able to put the ball on the chest of a runner or hit it into his path to run on to or even to a space. Kreuzer v Bont couldn't do that consistently. There was one occasion, just one where he actually backhanded it clear of the pack towards our goal. If you want to know what a good tap ruckman looks like look at Sandilands, Gawn or Maric of a few years back or Natanui at his best where he taps short, long and not just to his feet. If you want to know what I measure rucks against, go back to Nicholls, and Farmer who were about 186 tall rucking against Len Thompson who was 195. Yes, I know they were different times but they could actually direct the ball towards their rovers and not just get their hands to it. As I said. Kreuzer is a lot of things but he is not a good tap ruckman. Mind you, apart from Gawn, of the rucks actually playing at the moment, none really stands out as one.

Author:	Blue Vain [ Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R17: Carlton Vs WBD Post Match Discussion
Blue Sombrero wrote: scottopee wrote: Blue Sombrero wrote: BigKev wrote: A ball up 1m out from their goal line and Kruezer taps it back into play, (and they goal). Things like that from an experienced player disappoint me more that skill errors from fringe players. Kreuzer is a great player and the heart of the club but his tap work is not good. People rave about his getting hitouts but this week he was no better than any other week. Even against Bont, his taps were missing targets and sometis even going to an opposition player. There were two or three superb taps to advantage today from our rucks. Out of 54. Kreuzer had 20 hit outs to advantage! He had two or three superb taps to advantage. Many of the others just fell closer to our players than theirs. Yep, that's pretty much the definition of "to advantage" Hitting the ball closer to our players than theirs. If a midfielder can't win the ball in that situation more times than not, it's not the ruckmans fault. I'd give up if I was you. It's just becoming embarrassing now.

Author:	scottopee [ Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R17: Carlton Vs WBD Post Match Discussion
Blue Sombrero wrote: scottopee wrote: Blue Sombrero wrote: BigKev wrote: A ball up 1m out from their goal line and Kruezer taps it back into play, (and they goal). Things like that from an experienced player disappoint me more that skill errors from fringe players. Kreuzer is a great player and the heart of the club but his tap work is not good. People rave about his getting hitouts but this week he was no better than any other week. Even against Bont, his taps were missing targets and sometis even going to an opposition player. There were two or three superb taps to advantage today from our rucks. Out of 54. Kreuzer had 20 hit outs to advantage! He had two or three superb taps to advantage. Many of the others just fell closer to our players than theirs, sometimes at Kreuzer's own feet and don't mean much. It's like saying Casboult is a good forward because he has a lot of shots at goal and most of them are pretty close to going through. He only kicks 2 a game, though. When a 200cm ruck goes up against a 193 mid, he should be able to put the ball on the chest of a runner or hit it into his path to run on to or even to a space. Kreuzer v Bont couldn't do that consistently. There was one occasion, just one where he actually backhanded it clear of the pack towards our goal. If you want to know what a good tap ruckman looks like look at Sandilands, Gawn or Maric of a few years back or Natanui at his best where he taps short, long and not just to his feet. If you want to know what I measure rucks against, go back to Nicholls, and Farmer who were about 186 tall rucking against Len Thompson who was 195. Yes, I know they were different times but they could actually direct the ball towards their rovers and not just get their hands to it. As I said. Kreuzer is a lot of things but he is not a good tap ruckman. Mind you, apart from Gawn, of the rucks actually playing at the moment, none really stands out as one. Never said Kreuzer was a great tap ruckman but responded to your he only had 2 or 3 taps to advantage when it was in the official stats as 20hitouts to advantage! Simple. It's not the only time you have had a crack at Kreuzer we get it you don't like him..... Has their been a bigger game of hit out numbers 50 and 20hitouts to advantage this year?? As for mentioning players from 40yrs ago the game has changed midfielders stood by themselves and had plenty of space now everyone has an opponent at a stoppage or at least should have. Just like forwards don't kick 5 every week because of flooding. So because Kreuzer didn't thrash the Bont every time because he had a 7cm height differential your telling me Thompson at 195cm flogged Nicholls (I think 188cm) every time because he should have because he had a 7cm height difference??

Author:	BigKev [ Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R17: Carlton Vs WBD Post Match Discussion
Blue Vain wrote: Read the post. I'm sure he was trying to hit it wide but he has another ruckman bodying up on him and trying to stop him getting his hands to the ball. I'm sure that if you make the opposition disappear, he could put it on a 5 cent piece for you. Then we're not talking about the same incident.

Author:	Blue Sombrero [ Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R17: Carlton Vs WBD Post Match Discussion
Blue Vain wrote: Blue Sombrero wrote: scottopee wrote: Blue Sombrero wrote: BigKev wrote: A ball up 1m out from their goal line and Kruezer taps it back into play, (and they goal). Things like that from an experienced player disappoint me more that skill errors from fringe players. Kreuzer is a great player and the heart of the club but his tap work is not good. People rave about his getting hitouts but this week he was no better than any other week. Even against Bont, his taps were missing targets and sometis even going to an opposition player. There were two or three superb taps to advantage today from our rucks. Out of 54. Kreuzer had 20 hit outs to advantage! He had two or three superb taps to advantage. Many of the others just fell closer to our players than theirs. Yep, that's pretty much the definition of "to advantage" No it isn't. Hitting the ball closer to our players than theirs. If a midfielder can't win the ball in that situation more times than not, it's not the ruckmans fault. I'd give up if I was you. It's just becoming embarrassing now. If you're embarrased for me, don't bother. I played ruck. I coached ruck. I don't give a ruck.

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