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List Management 2017
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35643		 Page 39 of 82
Author:  dannyboy [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2017 - Liam Jones re-signs 16/7
the shifting tides of the line drawn in the sand
Author:  Blue Vain [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Sydney Blue wrote:
They don't know how to win and they are told winning doesnt matter.


Who tells them that Syd?
I think you're plucking stuff out of the air now.
Author:  Siegfried [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2017 - Liam Jones re-signs 16/7
I'm not sure that they are told that winning doesn't matter. Bolton has said repeatedly that while we won't be measured on wins and losses, he won't accept any excuse for not winning, and that everything is being done to fast track player development and to get wins on the board.

In the days of priority picks, it was a no brainer for me that we didn't win in the last few weeks in order to get an extra top draft pick. It's how we ended up with Krezuer and Judd. Now, I couldn't care if we had pick 1, 2 or 3. And I do not subscribe to the idea that there is value in holding pick 1 in the pre-season draft.

I want to win tomorrow. I don't want to win another spoon. I want the players to experience wins. All I am saying is not to rush the rebuild. Take as long as it needs to take. If it takes 4 years, so be it. If it takes 5, so be it. Just build a list that will set us up for sustained top-4 finishes, year after year. I'm not sure that can be done in 3 years.
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
They don't know how to win and they are told winning doesnt matter.


Who tells them that Syd?
I think you're plucking stuff out of the air now.
Every week at every presser
Bolton stats its not about wins or losses.
That is not how he measures the team performance.
And this whole conversation started when I said Craig said the wrong thing when he said winning the spoon didn't matter.
If that is not telling them it doesn't matter if you win
I don't not what is

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Author:  aboynamedsue [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
They don't know how to win and they are told winning doesnt matter.


Who tells them that Syd?
I think you're plucking stuff out of the air now.
Every week at every presser
Bolton stats its not about wins or losses.
That is not how he measures the team performance.
And this whole conversation started when I said Craig said the wrong thing when he said winning the spoon didn't matter.
If that is not telling them it doesn't matter if you win
I don't not what is

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


You are misrepresenting what Bolton has been saying.
Author:  toddkurnski [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  List Management 2017 - Liam Jones re-signs 16/7
There's a big difference between worrying about week to week wins this year and ingraining week to week attitudes of the playing group. There is a balance between setting real obtainable goals for the playing group as it stands regarding its ability and saying the only measure for success this year is wins and losses.

Next year will be different. I expect 10 wins which would be a fair target based on the trajectory of the team. If it's 6 wins this year and last place while being competitive almost all weeks that's acceptable to me. I don't see an issue with that because the week to week attitude is right.

Don't see any point in being disappointed with a ladder position if all the indications are that we are building the foundations of success in 2019 and beyond. Of course, if you think losing an extra game or two this year will cause this team to lose close games in 2019 then that's one opinion. I alternatively think with guys like Docherty, Cripps, SPS and Curnow up and running the desire to win will be set by a strong young leadership group in 2019. This years close losses won't be psychologically detrimental.

Finishing last will suck though. It will feel a lot different to a Malthouse last however.
Author:  Crippa [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
They don't know how to win and they are told winning doesnt matter.


Who tells them that Syd?
I think you're plucking stuff out of the air now.
Every week at every presser
Bolton stats its not about wins or losses.
That is not how he measures the team performance.
And this whole conversation started when I said Craig said the wrong thing when he said winning the spoon didn't matter.
If that is not telling them it doesn't matter if you win
I don't not what is

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


You are misrepresenting what Bolton has been saying.


AND you are misreprenting what Craig said. You are so caught up in trying to prove your point that you twist everything to suit your argument.

Craig said all decisions are made through the lense of how to win the next flag not how to avoid the current season spoon. That's VERY different to saying it doesn't matter if we win the spoon. But that's been explained to you by lots of people multiple times but you refuse to accept it.

Bolton pushing the team to win every single game we play and for you to say otherwise is ridiculous rubbish. Just because Bolton doesn't sit in pressers demolerising his players saying he judges them negatively because they lost is COMPLETELY different to you pretending he says winning doesn't matter.
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Crippa wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
They don't know how to win and they are told winning doesnt matter.


Who tells them that Syd?
I think you're plucking stuff out of the air now.
Every week at every presser
Bolton stats its not about wins or losses.
That is not how he measures the team performance.
And this whole conversation started when I said Craig said the wrong thing when he said winning the spoon didn't matter.
If that is not telling them it doesn't matter if you win
I don't not what is

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


You are misrepresenting what Bolton has been saying.


AND you are misreprenting what Craig said. You are so caught up in trying to prove your point that you twist everything to suit your argument.

Craig said all decisions are made through the lense of how to win the next flag not how to avoid the current season spoon. That's VERY different to saying it doesn't matter if we win the spoon. But that's been explained to you by lots of people multiple times but you refuse to accept it.

Bolton pushing the team to win every single game we play and for you to say otherwise is ridiculous rubbish. Just because Bolton doesn't sit in pressers demolerising his players saying he judges them negatively because they lost is COMPLETELY different to you pretending he says winning doesn't matter.
You say something once and you can understand how you could misinterpreted something that is said.
But when you have 20 prematch and 20 post match pressers and you repeat the same thing over and over again. There is no misrepresentation of what he is saying.
I can virtually say word for word what Bolton says in his pressers.
I am not twisting what he is saying to suit my argument

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Author:  toddkurnski [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  List Management 2017 - Liam Jones re-signs 16/7
Press conferences are for Fox Sports audio grabs and a quote line in a HS article. What a coach says to the playing group in the other 40 odd hours during the week is more likely to mould the players mindset. I'd be pretty surprised if players watch their coaches press conference to be honest.
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2017 - Liam Jones re-signs 16/7
toddkurnski wrote:
Press conferences are for Fox Sports audio grabs and a quote line in a HS article. What a coach says to the playing group in the other 40 odd hours during the week is more likely to mould the players mindset. I'd be pretty surprised if players watch their coaches press conference to be honest.
I would be more surprised if they didn't

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Author:  Blue Vain [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Crippa wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
They don't know how to win and they are told winning doesnt matter.


Who tells them that Syd?
I think you're plucking stuff out of the air now.
Every week at every presser
Bolton stats its not about wins or losses.
That is not how he measures the team performance.
And this whole conversation started when I said Craig said the wrong thing when he said winning the spoon didn't matter.
If that is not telling them it doesn't matter if you win
I don't not what is

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


You are misrepresenting what Bolton has been saying.


AND you are misreprenting what Craig said. You are so caught up in trying to prove your point that you twist everything to suit your argument.

Craig said all decisions are made through the lense of how to win the next flag not how to avoid the current season spoon. That's VERY different to saying it doesn't matter if we win the spoon. But that's been explained to you by lots of people multiple times but you refuse to accept it.


I note you conveniently overlooked this one Syd. :wink:
Author:  GWS [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Crippa wrote:
Just because Bolton doesn't sit in pressers demolerising his players...


And thank God he doesn't!

Our club has been toothless for far too long!
Author:  Waterman [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2017 - Liam Jones re-signs 16/7
The way I look at our losses is how we have lost and since bolts and co I believe that the majority of losses have been fought out to the end which to me says that this group is on the right track, in the Malthouse years our losses were absolutey embarrasing something you cannot say now , I believe with some smart recruiting and development into our younger players we are going to see success , I would also like to think that this current group have the mental toughness to learn from these losses and drive forward as a united unit to see success together, GO BLUES , I have been a blues supporter for fifty years and can honestly say that I am excited and confident for the future of my club and that the dark shitty days are behind us never to return
Author:  Trigger [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2017 - Liam Jones re-signs 16/7
Sydney Blue wrote:
toddkurnski wrote:
Press conferences are for Fox Sports audio grabs and a quote line in a HS article. What a coach says to the playing group in the other 40 odd hours during the week is more likely to mould the players mindset. I'd be pretty surprised if players watch their coaches press conference to be honest.
I would be more surprised if they didn't

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

LOL
Author:  aboynamedsue [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Sydney Blue wrote:
You say something once and you can understand how you could misinterpreted something that is said.
But when you have 20 prematch and 20 post match pressers and you repeat the same thing over and over again. There is no misrepresentation of what he is saying.
I can virtually say word for word what Bolton says in his pressers.
I am not twisting what he is saying to suit my argument

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Very rarely did Sheedy bake his players publicly; he nearly always put a positive spin on a loss in his media conferences.

Bolton is the same. He sells hope. But I have never heard him say anything close to "it doesn't matter that we lost".

In fact, Bolton has consistently said in his media conferences that the team shouldn't be let off the hook for losing just because we're young and going through a reset.

He then usually goes on to talk about the positives and makes the point that we shouldn't judge the season SOLELY on wins & losses.

That is very different to "it doesn't matter if we win or lose". It clearly does matter to him. It matters to all of us. We all hate losing. Just because we like what we get doesn't mean we get what we like....
Author:  99prelim [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2017 - Liam Jones re-signs 16/7
Sydney Blue wrote:
Crippa wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
someone claiming their own argument is "pretty strong" makes me suspect they are not arguing, (to arguge one must listen) they are prothletising - I would also question what does "we have gone backwards" mean? Gone backwards compared to what? To the win/loss ration or to developing a strong club, a strong list, a strong sense of direction - all of which are moves forward and can happen while "going backwards".


Almost everybody agrees with that. Unfortunately SB is too blind/cynical/jaded/blind to see it. We all feel sorry for him/her.
I'm nobody's bitch.
People have been saying that about me on here for years Crippa.
Unfortunately in most instances I turn out to right.
Don't know if you were around day 1 when I took a set to Pagan. Then Malthouse.
Most thought I was a looney

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Not sure why people on here waste their time responding to you
1. You have limited situational awareness
2. You have limited emotional intelligence
3. You have no power of persuasion in your arguments
4. You have an inability to absorb challenging feedback
Author:  Blue Sombrero [ Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2017 - Liam Jones re-signs 16/7
99prelim wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Crippa wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
someone claiming their own argument is "pretty strong" makes me suspect they are not arguing, (to arguge one must listen) they are prothletising - I would also question what does "we have gone backwards" mean? Gone backwards compared to what? To the win/loss ration or to developing a strong club, a strong list, a strong sense of direction - all of which are moves forward and can happen while "going backwards".


Almost everybody agrees with that. Unfortunately SB is too blind/cynical/jaded/blind to see it. We all feel sorry for him/her.
I'm nobody's bitch.
People have been saying that about me on here for years Crippa.
Unfortunately in most instances I turn out to right.
Don't know if you were around day 1 when I took a set to Pagan. Then Malthouse.
Most thought I was a looney

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Not sure why people on here waste their time responding to you
1. You have limited situational awareness
2. You have limited emotional intelligence
3. You have no power of persuasion in your arguments
4. You have an inability to absorb challenging feedback

You've just finished a management course haven't you.
Author:  tommi [ Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
GWS wrote:
Crippa wrote:
Just because Bolton doesn't sit in pressers demolerising his players...


And thank God he doesn't!

Our club has been toothless for far too long!




Nice wisdom Gee.....!


kindest regards tommi






I came to that occlusion myself....!
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2017 - Liam Jones re-signs 16/7
Blue Sombrero wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Crippa wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
someone claiming their own argument is "pretty strong" makes me suspect they are not arguing, (to arguge one must listen) they are prothletising - I would also question what does "we have gone backwards" mean? Gone backwards compared to what? To the win/loss ration or to developing a strong club, a strong list, a strong sense of direction - all of which are moves forward and can happen while "going backwards".


Almost everybody agrees with that. Unfortunately SB is too blind/cynical/jaded/blind to see it. We all feel sorry for him/her.
I'm nobody's bitch.
People have been saying that about me on here for years Crippa.
Unfortunately in most instances I turn out to right.
Don't know if you were around day 1 when I took a set to Pagan. Then Malthouse.
Most thought I was a looney

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Not sure why people on here waste their time responding to you
1. You have limited situational awareness
2. You have limited emotional intelligence
3. You have no power of persuasion in your arguments
4. You have an inability to absorb challenging feedback

You've just finished a management course haven't you.
No BS I just tell how I see it and don't get sucked in by cliches and bull shit.
I look at the facts and the overall results and make my assessment I dont make hypothetical projections about the future .I also watch a lot of footy from all teams most weeks at least 6 to 7 games.
I always watch our game at least twice. I watch interviews.
I can tell what is bull shit and what is true.


Sometimes people can't handle sèeing the reality and that fantasies about things that will happen in years to come. Some sit picking their best 22 for years 2020 because they don't want to look around and see what is taking place now and you are obviously one like it.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Author:  GWS [ Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2017 - Liam Jones re-signs 16/7
Actually Syd I think you'll find BS was addressing 99prelim.

Situational awareness... :lol:
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