Logic, sense, marbles, IQ... I get it. All those answers.

But watching the Blues I'd say anyone can see we need a second marking forward. We just fall over too often.

Is it that the Club don't rate any of the others - Jaksch, Jones.... and don't want to give them games?

Or am I wrong?

I'm just a bit lost.

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

We have Silvagni and Curnow as 2nd marking forwards.

We just need a proper key forward who can seperate from his opponent and be mobile.

We have heaps of second marking forwards

we need a first

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

oh, thats what Rexy said

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Jacksh may come good
Casboult will NOT come good

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Yes,we've won 6 from 7 with two key forwards and kicked much better scores. We have been much better when we've played one ruck and two key forwards. We see it, the match committee can't. We expect Casboult, who was essentially pick 150, to be the one out key forward against multiple defenders right now. He's down well in his time here given he's a 3rd round rookie pick but to expect him to hold up the whole forward line is a bit much. He's usually played pretty well when he's had help, especially with a run in the ruck, but struggled on his own since the injury. Two key forwards spreads the defence, opens the 50 and allows our smaller blokes space to run and hit the scoreboard, hence our success mid season. One doesn't allow that hence we can't score and lose.

Jaksch has had a good VFL season but can't seem to crack it for a run. A bloke who can play both ends is surely handy. Jones should've been in today.

McKay and C.Curnow will eventually supersede Casboult and Jones but we need the latter around until they develop.

Jaksch will be ok, a swingman playing both ends. Casboult's been pretty good in his time here. Hence why Bolton rates him and the interest from a few clubs last year. tells me he's done ok in his 4 years in the seniors.

Unfortunately Jaksch was diabolical in the game against West Coast. Jones has deserved more games, but the clear priority is to invest games in our future forward line.

CurnowC didn't play today and wasn't replaced like for like.

I love SOJ but he's not a second marking forward.

QUestion stands.

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Looks like they want to play to a system that relies on a certain combination of smalls/talls and mids.

It's why we've played two rucks all year despite the howls of protest from many. As its turned out the two ruck model seems to be coming together.

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I hope Essendon* folds.

I've been bloody frustrated with the 2 ruckman policy. We did so well without it. As someone posted somewhere else, it's not about this year FFS!!

I'll go with that to keep me calm.

I'm happy with two rucks.

Less happy with one KPF.

But very happy to let coaching staff keep doing whatever they like.

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I hope Essendon* folds.

Kreuzer marked well as a forward today. As much as Jones or Casboult have in the arcs in games this year. Big Sauce also plucked a few.

When was the last time we saw Casboult score a goal or point for that matter that wasn't from a mark? I think that type of one dimensional player taking up a position in the 22 is not the way forward. I think we have seen enough of him over the years.
Lack of interest from other clubs last year shows where he is rated. Fingers crossed for next year.

His last quarter today was a blinder. Shame about the earlier 3.

I don't think the current system is the one that is going to get to the line. I reckon Bolton will slowly introduce ways to attack that will give a forward line of SoS , Curnow and Mckay a real good look at it. As it stands now we don't run and carry the ball often enough to really get the opposition on the back foot with the ball in dangerous spots. Also, our press is good but it doesn't amount to much on the scoreboard which needs to be looked at.

I think part of the value of Casboult is that he is a large strong unit that demands attention. If left alone he will mark everything that comes his way and he does straighten us up. There arent too many defenders that could muscle him out of contests and stop him at least bringing the ball to ground for the smalls. Nobody expects him to kick like Fev, we all know he struggles with a high ball drop. He is also obviously playing injured at the moment, he looked like his legs are being sponsored by Elastoplast on the weekend. I wonder if that injury from earlier in the season is lingering.

It is debatable whether Jones is any better a kick than Caz but he is nowhere near as strong and nowhere near as good a contested mark. Jaksch has struggled in senior appearances, was diabolical in the Wet Toast game. Harry is obviously the future and we dont need him being rag-dolled by the bigger defenders just yet. We aint playing finals this year.

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

[quote="club29"
When was the last time we saw Casboult score a goal or point for that matter that wasn't from a mark? [/quote]

Do you mean apart from against Hawthorn last week?
He kicked a point that grazed the post or it would have been a goal.

I don't think he is supposed to be a crumbing forward. His job is to mark the ball or create a contest for the crumbing forwards whose job is to hold the ball in our attacking zone long enough to score.

There are not a lot of 200cm+ 105kg guys nimble on their feet.

Look at Adelaide. Betts scored 5 again last week, three or four of which were after their marking forwards dropped contested marks and he just ran on to them.

You don't have to mark the footy every time and the talls don't have to do the crumbing. When the ball hits the ground we need Sumner and co to mop up. Put Betts and Garlett back into this side even with Levi and we win more games. It isn't just about Levi. That's why he keeps getting selected. He is rarely outmarked. He gets the ball on the ground and splits packs. That's the first part of the forward press resolved. The rest is up to the crumbers. They tackle well and hold the ball in well but they seem to lack the skills to convert. we are 18/18 for conversion of F50 entries.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

I agree. I think the biggest blight on the game are goal posts. If there were no goal posts, scoring efficiency would be close to 100%.

Do you mean apart from against Hawthorn last week?
He kicked a point that grazed the post or it would have been a goal.

I don't think he is supposed to be a crumbing forward. His job is to mark the ball or create a contest for the crumbing forwards whose job is to hold the ball in our attacking zone long enough to score.

There are not a lot of 200cm+ 105kg guys nimble on their feet.

Look at Adelaide. Betts scored 5 again last week, three or four of which were after their marking forwards dropped contested marks and he just ran on to them.

You don't have to mark the footy every time and the talls don't have to do the crumbing. When the ball hits the ground we need Sumner and co to mop up. Put Betts and Garlett back into this side even with Levi and we win more games. It isn't just about Levi. That's why he keeps getting selected. He is rarely outmarked. He gets the ball on the ground and splits packs. That's the first part of the forward press resolved. The rest is up to the crumbers. They tackle well and hold the ball in well but they seem to lack the skills to convert. we are 18/18 for conversion of F50 entries.[/quote]

I didn't say anything about crumbing goals.

The position description you gave for the one he fills is no good. That is a waste of one of the 22 positions in the team.
He has to do other things.

Ok so he scored a point against the hawks that wasn't from a mark. I was stretching it there. But really there are not to many forwards in the league that don't score goals from general play. He never does. Never outsmarts his opponent, never reads the play better, never gets on to the end of a handpass and puts it through and never makes the ball fall to his advantage and holds his feet to score the goal. All he is out there for is to contest marks.

I dont mind Casboults work deep. Setting up the press and all that. I get all that. But there has to be more. Look at Dixon , Jenkins or even White and Griffiths. They get goals from general play.
I think we are mad trying to come up with positions and reasons to play such a one dimensional player based on his contested marking ability. We need to think more in the way of score for and score against.

He will play a blinder tomorrow.

Let's try pinch Jack Riewald - he is getting pushed all round the ground, and is a classy forward when allowed to play there...


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I will miss you Kouta - thanks for the memories. ps. Kouta > * for ∞

Self-answer: Geesh we were terrible with two of them on the weekend. has to be about playing players of AFL quality first before we go for structure. Jones ain't it.

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Let's look beyond one game like most of us would. We're 7 from 9 with 2 key forwards, with plenty of AFL quality football (ask Geelong), zero from 12 with one with bugger all quality footy. Think that tells us alot. Without structure you have no quality football as we have seen for weeks on end. Even against Brisbane we kicked 8.12 in the 2nd half, kicked our 3rd highest score of the year, and that 2nd half carried over to this week. Two key forwards requires both to have defenders. That opens it up for others. Everitt played better mid-year with two key forwards, and Silvagni kicked 3 last week. Means those types don't get the top defenders on them. Also means others contribute on the scoreboard too.