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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:15 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Boutique dreams: Blues aim to build on success of footy's Ikon Park return

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AFL.com.au understands Carlton will use the success of this year's practice game to push for another NAB Challenge match at the ground in 2017.

The AFL has already ruled out hosting home and away games at the stadium, just north of the CBD, in the foreseeable future.

In its current condition, the ground simply is not fit to host a premiership season match.

The venue would need tens of million of dollars in renovations to be returned to the modern standard AFL fans expect.

But it's believed the League still sees the stadium as a valuable asset for the game and the club.


....

In 2013 there was a campaign to upgrade Richmond's base at Punt Road Oval, adjacent to the MCG, but the proposal went nowhere.

At the time then AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou also declared: "Visy can work," referencing the stadium's former name.

Carlton is in the early stages of preparing a master plan for the future of its traditional home.

Due for completion towards the end of this year, the document is expected to forecast what the long-term future of the venue will be.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQo1HIcSVtg

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:30 am 
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Rod Ashman

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The Board of the Club have the one big opportunity to build Princes Park to a boutique 50,000 stadium

After yesterdays game is it now clear that Princes Park is always our home ground from an emotional, football and financial perspective. There is nothing pejorative about being emotional - emotion is a core attribute of being a supporter of a club and not to be trivialized.

if the Carlton board want to build the club -they must build our home ground

Trigg said at the 2015 Carlton AGM that $50 million would be the cost to develop it and the AFL told Carlton before this year that Carlton would have to fund the build themselves and then the AFL would probably endorse it as a ground

Lets get straight to the point - A Carlton home ground is feared by all opposition clubs - everyone including the AFL Commission because it re-strengthens Carlton again.

Since leaving Princes Park as a result of Demitriou and Ron Evans were in charge at City Hall, Carlton has been like a ship without a rudder or sail. I suggest that the decision to remove Carlton from Princes Park was a political hatchet job on Carlton at the time.

Carlton culture over 150 years has never been in memberships - it has been a culture of large support at a home ground at Princes Park.

Make it happen Judge...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:36 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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yes.
Image

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:46 am 
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Ken Hunter
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50K stadium is too big, especially for smaller drawing games. I think a 35-40K stadium would be the sweet spot.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:50 am 
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Rod Ashman

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bluechucky wrote:
50K stadium is too big, especially for smaller drawing games. I think a 35-40K stadium would be the sweet spot.


i think etihad will be purchased by the afl soon and the land sold

50K is the way - to hold enough carlton members


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:58 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Mosquito Fleet wrote:
bluechucky wrote:
50K stadium is too big, especially for smaller drawing games. I think a 35-40K stadium would be the sweet spot.


i think etihad will be purchased by the afl soon and the land sold

50K is the way - to hold enough carlton members


Everything I have read on the topic does not indicate that the land will be sold. In fact everything I've read indicates the purchase is to ensure that the tenanted clubs get a better financial deal.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:11 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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At the AGM, Trigg gave the impression that Ikon becoming an AFL venue again was La La Land stuff. Etihad being bought by the AFL and us getting a better deal there seems a more realistic option.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:15 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Hopefully they re-fit the surface too.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:37 am 
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Rod Ashman

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aboynamedsue wrote:
At the AGM, Trigg gave the impression that Ikon becoming an AFL venue again was La La Land stuff. Etihad being bought by the AFL and us getting a better deal there seems a more realistic option.


not correct ..I recall trigg saying:

1 "if there is change in mind by the AFL" its a real option
2. if we spend $ not the afl on the development then the AFL will probably make it a venue

so reading between the subtle commercial lines - if Carlton take the commercial risk of the build and it can be approved by the afl as a venue

so the onus shifts on this non-visionary lazy Board we have at the moment to make it happen- if they had the smarts to do it and perhaps make it an A League Venue in the summer and show some political muscle as we did in the past regarding local residents - then its a live option.

to suggest it is "la la land" is just insulting to members and supporters who want it...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:54 am 
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Bruce Doull
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I reckon you'd get it past the residents if you managed to get a live music/cultural festival that's family friendly there once or twice a year.

The other reassurances would probably be no night games (cheaper refit anyway) and that they'd be safe to walk the streets after the game (responsible serving, closing down stadium venues earlyish, security staffing and police presence).

Princes Park was pretty thinly covered in those respects last time around and as a result it was a shit show for 3-6 hours after the game and an eye sore for the next 24 hours. Anyone who cries about crowd noise and a couple of sirens every 30 minutes during a sporting contest should be frogmarched out of the discussions.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:04 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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50k at princes park lol, never going to happen

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:06 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Beautifully written Mosquito!
I don't need to add anything. :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:13 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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teagueyubeauty wrote:
50k at princes park lol, never going to happen

Really no point developing it if the long term goal isn't 40k+ though.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:18 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Home games at MCG and NB games at Princes Park.

That's how it should be.

The board should develop a proper social facility at PP for club functions.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:21 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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This whole thing feels like déjà vu! Lots of stakeholders at play here. Remember - the AFL don't have to pony up a cent - and have flatly refused Carlton's request despite using the ground as a venue (TAC Cup / NAB Challenge etc).

The club can't currently afford to do much and has taken an eternity to do a Master Plan. The City of Melbourne released their Master Plan in 2012, (stadium and internal spaces of the ground are managed by Carlton under a lease separate to the rest of the park) but both sides have to take into consideration the other. In fact - nothing happens in this space without the City Of Melbourne's green light.

The lease agreement that the Club has with the City of Melbourne expires in 2035. At $88,121 - it's a bargain. Particularly when you compare it to what the club pays in rent to 'house' the pokies! Add in a pricey management fee and that = millions upon millions. Those lease agreements expire in 2022. Can a lease be sold? Yes...all leases can be sold. Would Carlton make a profit on selling those leases? I don't know...the board still believes in them though. Why else would you approve a $250k loan to upgrade some existing pokie machines last year?

I would suggest - to use an analogy - that the club has handcuffed itself and swallowed the key. I hope 2016 brings some transparency and clarity to Carlton supporters re: the off-field direction of the club. If there is a plan to play some games there - all well and good... at least there's a direction.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:33 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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So the AFL throws money into Kardinia Park... but not into Princes Park.
So the AFL grants Hawthorn the use of Waverly for $1 a year... and flowers us with a shit deal at Etihad.

Pretty clear what's going on.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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DocSherrin III wrote:
This whole thing feels like déjà vu! Lots of stakeholders at play here. Remember - the AFL don't have to pony up a cent - and have flatly refused Carlton's request despite using the ground as a venue (TAC Cup / NAB Challenge etc).

The club can't currently afford to do much and has taken an eternity to do a Master Plan. The City of Melbourne released their Master Plan in 2012, (stadium and internal spaces of the ground are managed by Carlton under a lease separate to the rest of the park) but both sides have to take into consideration the other. In fact - nothing happens in this space without the City Of Melbourne's green light.

The lease agreement that the Club has with the City of Melbourne expires in 2035. At $88,121 - it's a bargain. Particularly when you compare it to what the club pays in rent to 'house' the pokies! Add in a pricey management fee and that = millions upon millions. Those lease agreements expire in 2022. Can a lease be sold? Yes...all leases can be sold. Would Carlton make a profit on selling those leases? I don't know...the board still believes in them though. Why else would you approve a $250k loan to upgrade some existing pokie machines last year?

I would suggest - to use an analogy - that the club has handcuffed itself and swallowed the key. I hope 2016 brings some transparency and clarity to Carlton supporters re: the off-field direction of the club. If there is a plan to play some games there - all well and good... at least there's a direction.


you are a confessed non- member, so your opinion is given little weight with respect


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:56 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Mosquito Fleet wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
At the AGM, Trigg gave the impression that Ikon becoming an AFL venue again was La La Land stuff. Etihad being bought by the AFL and us getting a better deal there seems a more realistic option.


not correct ..I recall trigg saying:

1 "if there is change in mind by the AFL" its a real option
2. if we spend $ not the afl on the development then the AFL will probably make it a venue

so reading between the subtle commercial lines - if Carlton take the commercial risk of the build and it can be approved by the afl as a venue

so the onus shifts on this non-visionary lazy Board we have at the moment to make it happen- if they had the smarts to do it and perhaps make it an A League Venue in the summer and show some political muscle as we did in the past regarding local residents - then its a live option.

to suggest it is "la la land" is just insulting to members and supporters who want it...


http://youtu.be/yCFB2akLh4s

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:56 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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robertbb wrote:
So the AFL throws money into Kardinia Park... but not into Princes Park.
So the AFL grants Hawthorn the use of Waverly for $1 a year... and flowers us with a shit deal at Etihad.

Pretty clear what's going on.


correct - the removal of Carlton from PP was an AFL political hatchet job on Carlton ..driven by the then AFL to take control of the gate and the broadcasting rights revenues at the time

if people dont understand that the AFL Commission is a political body they dont understand football


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:57 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Why?

That was in regards to your last post to Doc Sherrin mosquito...

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Last edited by teagueyubeauty on Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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