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dlb99
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:21 pm
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99prelim wrote:
No excuses. 8 games minimum


We won 7 in 2016, 6 in 2017 (but with multiple tight losses due to our poor fitness).

Six was my minimum, but in all honesty we should get 8 wins.

Bolton needs to go back to the 2016/2017 structures. I suspect he over-estimated our list this year and went attacking mode too soon and buggered us completely since we could not attack nor defend.
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dlb99
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:57 pm 
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Garry Crane

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Adam Chatfield wrote:
It’s hard to see Bolts coming back from this year as it has really been a new level of terrible as a season we hadn’t even reached under Pagan or Malthouse. In saying that I am willing to give him a chance in 2019.


The Pagan & Malthouse lists were in far worse condition (at the end of their reins).

At least our list now is trending in the right direction (not withstanding poor structures and poor fitness/injury).

Brisbane, Geelong & Hawthorn all built mighty teams of the back of multiple terrible years (but fine recruiting). I think our recruiting in SOS's time actually is quite good; other parts of the club need fixing including Brendon's terrible 2018 coaching year.
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Blue Sombrero
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:04 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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dlb99 wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
It’s hard to see Bolts coming back from this year as it has really been a new level of terrible as a season we hadn’t even reached under Pagan or Malthouse. In saying that I am willing to give him a chance in 2019.


The Pagan & Malthouse lists were in far worse condition (at the end of their reins).

At least our list now is trending in the right direction (not withstanding poor structures and poor fitness/injury).

Brisbane, Geelong & Hawthorn all built mighty teams of the back of multiple terrible years (but fine recruiting, including several priority picks, father/son windfalls and salary cap concessions). I think our recruiting in SOS's time actually is quite good; other parts of the club need fixing including Brendon's terrible 2018 coaching year.

EFA

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The Duke
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:19 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Oops!

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Last edited by The Duke on Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Steve_C7
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:30 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 1002
The Duke wrote:
We're 5-10 years behind the movement of clubs like Essendon*** and North - which is terrifying!! Not only do you not need to 'bottom out' anymore, it's now a completely dumb and outdated strategy.


There is no strategy to bottom out, we are simply cutting dead wood from out list which to be fair has allot more of it than most other teams.

The Duke wrote:
Essendon*** will get another couple of good kids plus a free agent or two and have the base to grow for a flag.... while we're still trying to determine whether Bolton can actually coach :banghead: .


How did Essendon* go when they lost 12 players due to doping?

Pretty similar year to us, yet they could plan for it and the AFL gave them replacements in seasoned mature bodies to play out the season so that they still have a full squad at their disposal.

I don't think that Bolts had a great year from a coaching aspect, but I think he did a great job in keeping the team spirit up, bonding as a group and fostering camaraderie that will hold us in great stead in future years.
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Wojee
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:33 am 
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Bruce Doull
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The Duke wrote:
Holy @#$%&! - this is LOLs for days.....

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 4zzw8.html

Rudd playing to the insecurities of a bunch of bed wetters who still think an 85 year old white newspaper dude controls the world :lol: :lol: :lol:


Yeah, but what about the injuries when Rudd was coach?

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The Duke
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:01 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Steve_C7 wrote:
The Duke wrote:
We're 5-10 years behind the movement of clubs like Essendon**** and North - which is terrifying!! Not only do you not need to 'bottom out' anymore, it's now a completely dumb and outdated strategy.


There is no strategy to bottom out, we are simply cutting dead wood from out list which to be fair has allot more of it than most other teams.

The Duke wrote:
Essendon**** will get another couple of good kids plus a free agent or two and have the base to grow for a flag.... while we're still trying to determine whether Bolton can actually coach :banghead: .


How did Essendon** go when they lost 12 players due to doping?

Pretty similar year to us, yet they could plan for it and the AFL gave them replacements in seasoned mature bodies to play out the season so that they still have a full squad at their disposal.

I don't think that Bolts had a great year from a coaching aspect, but I think he did a great job in keeping the team spirit up, bonding as a group and fostering camaraderie that will hold us in great stead in future years.


They cut too hard and brought in players to replace them that offer no positives that will then need to be cut. It's the same shit from a different coach.

Aaron Mullett - Cut
Alex Silvagni - Cut
Cameron O'Shea - Cut
Cameron Polson - ??
Dale Thomas - CUT
Darcy Lang - Cut
Jarrod Pickett - Cut
Jed Lamb - Keep for 1
Jesse Glass-McCasker - Cut
Kade Simpson - Keep for 1 but only because we're desperate
Kym LeBois - Cut
Matt Shaw - Keep for 1
Matthew Kennedy - Keep for 2
Matthew Lobbe - Keep for 1
Matthew Wright - Keep for 2
Nicholas Graham - Cut
Sam Kerridge - Keep for 1
Sam Rowe - Cut

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The Duke
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:02 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Wojee wrote:
The Duke wrote:
Holy @#$%&! - this is LOLs for days.....

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 4zzw8.html

Rudd playing to the insecurities of a bunch of bed wetters who still think an 85 year old white newspaper dude controls the world :lol: :lol: :lol:


Yeah, but what about the injuries when Rudd was coach?


You bastard!!

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Wojee
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:05 am 
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Bruce Doull
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The Duke wrote:
Wojee wrote:
The Duke wrote:
Holy @#$%&! - this is LOLs for days.....

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 4zzw8.html

Rudd playing to the insecurities of a bunch of bed wetters who still think an 85 year old white newspaper dude controls the world :lol: :lol: :lol:


Yeah, but what about the injuries when Rudd was coach?


You bastard!!


:lol:

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Steve_C7
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:54 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 1002
The Duke wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
The Duke wrote:
We're 5-10 years behind the movement of clubs like Essendon***** and North - which is terrifying!! Not only do you not need to 'bottom out' anymore, it's now a completely dumb and outdated strategy.


There is no strategy to bottom out, we are simply cutting dead wood from out list which to be fair has allot more of it than most other teams.

The Duke wrote:
Essendon***** will get another couple of good kids plus a free agent or two and have the base to grow for a flag.... while we're still trying to determine whether Bolton can actually coach :banghead: .


How did Essendon*** go when they lost 12 players due to doping?

Pretty similar year to us, yet they could plan for it and the AFL gave them replacements in seasoned mature bodies to play out the season so that they still have a full squad at their disposal.

I don't think that Bolts had a great year from a coaching aspect, but I think he did a great job in keeping the team spirit up, bonding as a group and fostering camaraderie that will hold us in great stead in future years.


They cut too hard and brought in players to replace them that offer no positives that will then need to be cut. It's the same shit from a different coach.

Aaron Mullett - Cut
Alex Silvagni - Cut
Cameron O'Shea - Cut
Cameron Polson - ??
Dale Thomas - CUT
Darcy Lang - Cut
Jarrod Pickett - Cut
Jed Lamb - Keep for 1
Jesse Glass-McCasker - Cut
Kade Simpson - Keep for 1 but only because we're desperate
Kym LeBois - Cut
Matt Shaw - Keep for 1
Matthew Kennedy - Keep for 2
Matthew Lobbe - Keep for 1
Matthew Wright - Keep for 2
Nicholas Graham - Cut
Sam Kerridge - Keep for 1
Sam Rowe - Cut


Other than the fact that we can't cut 10+ players in a season and replace them with anything better that what we just cut, I don't disagree with that list.
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The Duke
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Steve_C7 wrote:

Other than the fact that we can't cut 10+ players in a season and replace them with anything better that what we just cut, I don't disagree with that list.


And that's exactly my issue. We need to get rid of all these guys but we can't. We could have still had Holman, Gowers and Buckley as semi-mature players. They rolled the dice and it backfired.

Buckley's value was immeasurable to the playing group as a mid-20s leader. Instead we got O'Shea. :?

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Braithy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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not too mention Buckley had bottle and could run and carry.

run and carry is something this current list isn't capable of.
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bluechucky
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Buckley was a mistake. Easily offered more than at very least 6 on our list who will be lucky to be here in a month.

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Blue Vain
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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He wasn't a mistake. He wouldn't play for a minimal contract. The family weren't happy he wasn't getting a game and made it known to anyone who would listen.
He had more than enough chances and didn't take them. If a bloke is on your list for 5 years and is still spending most of his time in the 2's, get rid of him.

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The_Cranium
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:21 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:51 am
Posts: 4210
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The Duke wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
The Duke wrote:
We're 5-10 years behind the movement of clubs like Essendon***** and North - which is terrifying!! Not only do you not need to 'bottom out' anymore, it's now a completely dumb and outdated strategy.


There is no strategy to bottom out, we are simply cutting dead wood from out list which to be fair has allot more of it than most other teams.

The Duke wrote:
Essendon***** will get another couple of good kids plus a free agent or two and have the base to grow for a flag.... while we're still trying to determine whether Bolton can actually coach :banghead: .


How did Essendon*** go when they lost 12 players due to doping?

Pretty similar year to us, yet they could plan for it and the AFL gave them replacements in seasoned mature bodies to play out the season so that they still have a full squad at their disposal.

I don't think that Bolts had a great year from a coaching aspect, but I think he did a great job in keeping the team spirit up, bonding as a group and fostering camaraderie that will hold us in great stead in future years.


They cut too hard and brought in players to replace them that offer no positives that will then need to be cut. It's the same shit from a different coach.

Aaron Mullett - Cut
Alex Silvagni - Cut
Cameron O'Shea - Cut
Cameron Polson - ??
Dale Thomas - CUT
Darcy Lang - Cut
Jarrod Pickett - Cut
Jed Lamb - Keep for 1
Jesse Glass-McCasker - Cut
Kade Simpson - Keep for 1 but only because we're desperate
Kym LeBois - Cut
Matt Shaw - Keep for 1
Matthew Kennedy - Keep for 2
Matthew Lobbe - Keep for 1
Matthew Wright - Keep for 2
Nicholas Graham - Cut
Sam Kerridge - Keep for 1
Sam Rowe - Cut




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The Duke
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Vain wrote:
He wasn't a mistake. He wouldn't play for a minimal contract. The family weren't happy he wasn't getting a game and made it known to anyone who would listen.
He had more than enough chances and didn't take them. If a bloke is on your list for 5 years and is still spending most of his time in the 2's, get rid of him.


I don't think he deserved just a minimal contract, tbh. I'd accept it better if Buckley was an isolated case, but Holman and Gowers are now on other teams lists and doing better than the blokes who we replaced them with.

It's very poor list management - in my opinion.

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Blue Sombrero
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:34 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Braithy wrote:
not too mention Buckley had bottle and could run and carry.

run and carry is something this current list isn't capable of.

Or allowed to do.

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Braithy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:36 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Blue Vain wrote:
He wasn't a mistake. He wouldn't play for a minimal contract. The family weren't happy he wasn't getting a game and made it known to anyone who would listen.
He had more than enough chances and didn't take them. If a bloke is on your list for 5 years and is still spending most of his time in the 2's, get rid of him.



getting rid of him, only to replace him with vasty inferior players like o'shea or mullet? that is no way to run a club.

agree him and his family should have had more patience. He woulda played every game this year (if healthy) for cfc if he was here.
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Braithy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:37 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Blue Sombrero wrote:
Braithy wrote:
not too mention Buckley had bottle and could run and carry.

run and carry is something this current list isn't capable of.

Or allowed to do.



of course there's that too. but i can't torpedo punt the coaching in every single post i make. :lol:
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Wojee
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:22 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Braithy wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
He wasn't a mistake. He wouldn't play for a minimal contract. The family weren't happy he wasn't getting a game and made it known to anyone who would listen.
He had more than enough chances and didn't take them. If a bloke is on your list for 5 years and is still spending most of his time in the 2's, get rid of him.



getting rid of him, only to replace him with vasty inferior players like o'shea or mullet? that is no way to run a club.

agree him and his family should have had more patience. He woulda played every game this year (if healthy) for cfc if he was here.


On the flipside of that, replacing a player who'd been at the club for ~5 years and was a known quantity with a lower cost player who *may* give something more isn't an unsound strategy.
O'Shea and Mullet's career averages are both slightly better than Buckley's so calling them "vastly inferior" is a bit more emotive than accurate.

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