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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:27 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
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supportive of decision - need to stay the course - agree difficult season but still supportive
Interesting whether cripps signs long term contract as mooted -if he does that will be a great indication of the players buy in


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:00 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Good decision by the club. Kill the needless speculation.

For the critics, I’m curious.

All the recycled players are apparently crap. So who would you have got instead and how would you have got them? And which of our delisted players would you have kept?

I’m a little surprised that you cant see the dilemma the club was in. As I see it, we either used our precious draft picks to get all the good players you insist we should have, or we did what we have done, keeping our picks for high enders whilst fleshing out our list with recycled B grade players, with the chance that there are some A graders amongst them.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:20 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Logical decision given the boards backing of a full rebuild.

Just everyone beware not to get sucked into the media trolls black hole.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:29 am 
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Bruce Doull
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People bemoan the club making the same mistakes year after year but want to go down the same old "the coach is shit" path.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:24 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Bolton's rebuild hasn't been 17 and a half years, it's been 2 and a half years - the sooner some supporters get their head around the mathematics of it all and excuse the past in the mechanisms of the present and the future the better they'll be.

Bolts is the man for the job, name me anyone else who could walk in with the current state of the list (even fully fit) and have it playing finals? What's the difference between 2 wins and 6 this season in the big picture of things? As long as a fully fit list next year starts making inroads as planned I'm okay with it.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:50 am 
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Rod Ashman
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I'd go even further. Identify the young talent we have that we believe is going to take us forward, (Cripps, Curnow ..) and starting offering them long front ended contracts .... actually I'll stop there. Wrong thread really.

Good move on Bolton. Makes it clear to everyone that we're going to stay the course and not panic.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:02 am 
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Bruce Doull
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cecil89 wrote:
2: I have real doubts on the recruitment of Shaw and O’Shea, but the rest are necessary. We traded out our proven mid-tier players and attacked the draft with the picks we received in return. We then had no mid-tier players left on the list and had to fill those gaps on the cheap (not giving up valuable picks we could invest in youth). That’s led to a weak group of players in that age bracket and will only be properly rectified with time.


If you only read one post in this thread, make it cecil's above. :thumbsup:

Some of the issues we're facing at the moment have their roots back in the Elliot era. I know that's a long time ago, but IMO it wasn't until Bolton arrived that we properly attacked the draft with an identified purpose and clear direction.

As cecil has noted, in order to do that we had to trade to get draft picks, which exposed the weaknesses the playing list already had when Bolton arrived.

We’re often compared with Hawthorn under Clarkson for obvious reasons. You look at their 2008 premiership side and it’s remarkable at what they achieved so quickly. That side had senior experience in the form of Croad, Crawford, Dew and Guerra to help guide the kids. Not a lot, but it was enough. We have Murphy and Kreuzer.

That said, it’s also no surprise that the Hawks didn’t really hit their straps until another five or so seasons, after those senior players mentioned were gone and the kids had matured.

Bolton is right, and it’s an oft used term, but we reset. That meant starting from ground zero.

A 66-game rebuild has been the term bandied about, but remember, this was a ground zero rebuild and if the core group of talent on our list is to reach the potential we hope it has that’s not unlikely to happen until beyond 2020. Guys like Doc and Cripps will be the elder statesmen, Dow, SPS et all will be just reaching their mid-20s.

So while the media froths and bubbles flipping from one opposing “expert analysis” to the other we have to remember where we’re coming from and that this is going to take time.

Like, Bomber Thompson 8 years kind of time.

Like, Hardwick shoulda been sacked, lolwut, how did they do that, kind of time.

We’re in year 3. It’s not Bolton’s fault that we’ve been faffing about since the early 2000s. He’s come here wanting to do a job and to do it properly. Not to pretend we’re a year or two away from a flag.

The only catch is that we don’t know if it’s going to work.

All we know is that it’s the first time we’ve taken a reasoned approach to build a list that can sustain us well into the future.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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Boltons Record since taking over 53 games

14 wins
0- 6 point 3 wins
6-12 points 2 wins
12- 30 points 8 wins
30- 59 points 1 win

39 losses
0-6 points 2 losses
6-12 points 5 losses
12-30 points 17 losses
30-59 points 5 losses
60 points plus 10 losses


one in 5 belted by 10 goals plus
almost 1 in 3 by 5 goals plus

they are not pretty stats and they need to start turning around

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:46 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Hardwick - 34 losses from his first 53 with 8x 10 goal plus beltings.
Clarkson - 33 losses from his firsst 53 with 6x 10 goal plus beltings.


When you're starting from ground zero you're shit for the first few years.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:06 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
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At this stage I am happy with a 4 year plan from here to get back up to a standard that gives us a good chance to win 6-8 games a year. Then we can start thinking about moving up the ladder.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:11 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Camelboy. Outstanding post! I agree 200%. :clap:

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Rexy wrote:
Logical decision given the boards backing of a full rebuild.

Just everyone beware not to get sucked into the media trolls black hole.


:thumbsup:

Not to mention the TC trolls

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Wojee wrote:
Hardwick - 34 losses from his first 53 with 8x 10 goal plus beltings.
Clarkson - 33 losses from his firsst 53 with 6x 10 goal plus beltings.


When you're starting from ground zero you're shit for the first few years.


I'd love to be shit. Those were the days, hey!

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:34 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Wojee wrote:
Hardwick - 34 losses from his first 53 with 8x 10 goal plus beltings.
Clarkson - 33 losses from his firsst 53 with 6x 10 goal plus beltings.


When you're starting from ground zero you're shit for the first few years.


That's life, and that's the same path we have taken.
Build a list first. Replace deadwood with talent.
Add FA or Trade for bonafide stars when ready for flag assault.

I'm sure if we go back to pre Bolton days every poster on TC will have virtually the same list of players we need to replace.

Furthermore, no need to look but all posters would have agreed MM was wrong about our list, and we needed to go to the draft and get talent over the next 3-4 years, some thought 5 years.

There's evidence every media commentator agreed Carlton had to embrace the draft with gusto for the first time in our history.

Everyone knew there was going to be pain, as Clarkson and Hardwick experienced with the rebuild.

That's where we are at.

I'm glad the Board will stay the course for sustained success.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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dannyboy wrote:
yep should have held Bolts accountable for every poor game, make him sweat, make him decide to hunt for points, for short-term fixes, for ways to appease the masses, cos you know, we all know so much about football.

instead this stupid club has given him time, has backed him (and themselves) to get it right, to understand there will be some shaky steps in this rebuild but it is a rebuild, and we have to be patient - when the core of this team grows into 50 -150 game players things will change quickly. Add 2 seasons to the players below - say 30 - 40 games.



Cripps - 68 - 98+
Docherty - 92 - 122+
Lang - 46 games - 76+
Weitering - 46 - 76+
Curnow - 34 - 64+
Marchbank - 27 - 57+
Dow - 9 - 39+
OBrien - 6 - 36+
McKay - 7 - 37+
SPS - 29 - 59+
Fisher - 26 - 56+
Silvagni - 32 - 62+
Plowman - 69 - 129+
Pickett - 10 - 40+
Williamson - 15 - 45+
Kennedy - 24 - 54+
Cunningham - 14 - 44+
Polson - 3 - 33+
Byrne -17 - 47+
Kerr - 1 - 31+
Phillips - 34 - 64+
Graham 42 - 72+
Macreadie - 8 - 38+
Garlett - 25 - 55+
De Koning - 0 - 30+
Schumacher - 0 - 30+

aided hopefully by seniors
Kreuzer - 167 - 207+
Ed Curnow - 130 - 166+

I know all will not make it
Even younger blood will be added

and maybe a couple more than Ed and Kruise become veterans
and we add some more experience (but strong players)
but the point is - that is a very inexperienced list.

That was the first order of the day for Bolts - turn the soil, fertilize the ground, plant the seeds.

Give them time - I am very happy with that list. It needs midfielders (this year perhaps) but otherwise (to me) it looks strong just really inexperienced..


Thanks dannyboy.
The above clearly shows our path.

Not all will succeed, but he'll we haven't scraped the bottom of the barrel for those names,

They are talented and they are the future

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:39 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Yep.
Doesn't make the present any easier to swallow, though.
Frustrating at best, infuriating at worst.
The only real issue I have so far is his lack of match day input.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:10 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Wait til his cattle have the strength, then judge.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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The club needed to support him because some supporters (and all media when they feel like it) will do 2 things.
1) demand instant success when the rebuild of necessity dictates success will take a long time (and why we have avoided it until this time)
2) ignore the list is being rebuilt and blame the coach when comparing the team's performance to others way ahead of us on list development.

We have started from a long, long, long way back because the club for too long has listened to its members (these members grew up and were spoiled by the run of flags from '68 to '95 and have never understood that the world changed while they were drunk on past glories) who demand all success be delivered now. I get the feeling this time, finally, they are not listening to their members - at least, not to those who shout loudly and impatiently.

I wait for the day when Cripps and Docherty lead out a hardened core of 75 - 100 gamers to take on the world! Then let us judge how the club is going. Until then let the saplings grow and refrain from trying to pluck the fruit before they are ready.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:27 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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I must have missed the Press release from the club saying he was signed to 2020

Does anyone have the link

Or is this just media speculation

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:30 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:59 am
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Sydney Blue wrote:
I must have missed the Press release from the club saying he was signed to 2020

Does anyone have the link

Or is this just media speculation

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https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/car ... 4zh40.html

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