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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:41 am 
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John James
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I bet Jim will not say he is wrong when the team turns the corner. He will say it wasn't the coach, it was the players , new recruits etc etc.

GIVE IT A @#$%&! REST -WE GET IT- YOU HATE BOLTS.

STFU

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:56 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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jim wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Pushing for finals?

After a 2 win season?


Think a little harder on that one rather than basically. After 7 wins, 6 wins as well as leading 7 times in last qtrs too afterv2 years where do you think we should be after 4 years. We should be pushing for finals. We won't be but should be. Anyone should know that. Melbourne were. Roos took over a rebuild with 2 wins, had 10 wins by the 3rd. That's the difference. They had a good coach, we have a shit one.


No one knows the actual reason for anything you mention.

There's a better way to put your argument and it starts with " There's a strong possibility, given the numbers show....bla bla bla"

But you always put your argument with dogmatic delivery. Its quite disturbing jim. I am a fan of everyone having an opinion, but frankly yours is not an opinion: it is dogma according to you.

Who was the coach who got them to 6 wins plus 7 games winning at 3/4 time in 2017?
What do you think he did right to take a team which hit rock bottom, under Malthouse, and to get us heading in the right direction?

I'm interested in your opinion, other than Bolton can't coach, what other reasons may be considered for our shocking season this year? Plenty of anti Carlton scribes have given a list of reasons for the public to consume in their condemnation of our club's performance. I'm curious if you agree with them at all?

There's so many layers of stuff that goes on with human beings that need to be factored/ considered, especially young, undeveloped humans around 18-21 imo, let alone the fact we cut very deep with our trade of experienced players for picks. Whether it was too deep or not depends on how fast the team would get to the top 8, let alone top 4. Was that a good move or not to cut so deep? There's arguments both sides, but no one really has the answer. Not even you. Otherwise everyone would be agreeing with you.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:01 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Sidefx wrote:
jim wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Pushing for finals?

After a 2 win season?


Think a little harder on that one rather than basically. After 7 wins, 6 wins as well as leading 7 times in last qtrs too afterv2 years where do you think we should be after 4 years. We should be pushing for finals. We won't be but should be. Anyone should know that. Melbourne were. Roos took over a rebuild with 2 wins, had 10 wins by the 3rd. That's the difference. They had a good coach, we have a shit one.


Hmmmmmm.........so let me get this straight. Roos took "over" a team in rebuild that had 2 wins and by the 3rd year they had 10, yet you think we should be playing finals the year after 2 wins. And to make it more confusing, you think that 10 wins will have us pushing for the finals, even though 4 teams this year had 12 wins and didn't make the top 8!

Clearly thinking harder isn't working... :thumbsup:


Makes you wonder.

jim's a good poster, on some stuff, but on this point he's frothing from the mouth.

I also remember his position on Casboult. He was dogmatic with that argument too.
I wonder why he isn't on that band wagon anymore? Things change, and we have unearthed Harry...and even Lobbe.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:14 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Jim is a deep thinker and his posts are worth reading.
Unfortunately he has no idea on the modern game and he is disinclined to back away from anything he writes.

He is an important part of TC, regardless of how much we disagree with him.
He rarely goes the man and that is the essence of a site like this. People disagree and get on with it. That's Jim's forte. I don't often agree with him but that isn't important in any way. What is important is that we can all come on here and spruik our ignorance.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Jim is a deep thinker and his posts are worth reading.
Unfortunately he has no idea on the modern game and he is disinclined to back away from anything he writes.

He is an important part of TC, regardless of how much we disagree with him.
He rarely goes the man and that is the essence of a site like this. People disagree and get on with it. That's Jim's forte. I don't often agree with him but that isn't important in any way. What is important is that we can all come on here and spruik our ignorance.


I agree his posts are worth reading, but not all of them.
I hate being told what is fact when it is actually opinion.

He rarely goes for the man, but what do you call this:

Quote:
What part of this year you not see. A shit coach is a shit coach. That's not changing. None so blind that will not see.


Does it imply, I'm blind if I don't agree?

Well, whilst I have my doubts about Bolton, I also can see how his hands are tied with the players he's got at his disposal at such an early stage of their development, plus injuries.

We knew the pain we would go through would be greater than the previous year when we traded Gibbs for 2 First rounders. Which was a great deal imo. Then following Docherty's ACL in the first training session, we knew we were in deep trouble, but hoped we could do better than 2017.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:23 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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jim wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Pushing for finals?

After a 2 win season?


Think a little harder on that one rather than basically. After 7 wins, 6 wins as well as leading 7 times in last qtrs too afterv2 years where do you think we should be after 4 years. We should be pushing for finals. We won't be but should be. Anyone should know that. Melbourne were. Roos took over a rebuild with 2 wins, had 10 wins by the 3rd. That's the difference. They had a good coach, we have a shit one.

Roos took over a team that was already 5 years into its rebuild. A team that had won 34 games in the 7 years before he arrived. Roos had some talent in the 20-24 year old group, Bolton inherited a team at the beginning of the build rather than the end. Apples/oranges.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:34 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 1826
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Jim is a deep thinker and his posts are worth reading.
Unfortunately he has no idea on the modern game and he is disinclined to back away from anything he writes.

He is an important part of TC, regardless of how much we disagree with him.
He rarely goes the man and that is the essence of a site like this. People disagree and get on with it. That's Jim's forte. I don't often agree with him but that isn't important in any way. What is important is that we can all come on here and spruik our ignorance.


I agree his posts are worth reading, but not all of them.
I hate being told what is fact when it is actually opinion.

He rarely goes for the man, but what do you call this:

Quote:
What part of this year you not see. A shit coach is a shit coach. That's not changing. None so blind that will not see.


Does it imply, I'm blind if I don't agree?

Well, whilst I have my doubts about Bolton, I also can see how his hands are tied with the players he's got at his disposal at such an early stage of their development, plus injuries.

We knew the pain we would go through would be greater than the previous year when we traded Gibbs for 2 First rounders. Which was a great deal imo. Then following Docherty's ACL in the first training session, we knew we were in deep trouble, but hoped we could do better than 2017.

Just ignore his posts,I do ( like some might do with mine!!)
But I am going to play the man in this instance, he has no idea and sprukes absolute crap virtually every post!!

He has never coached a team or group of players on any semi pro or professional level and most of the non educated tend to get found out when some who have experienced the real sporting world see thru the crap!!

Sorry that is fact!!

And by the way Bondi, i would suggest you have have had some experience in the real sporting world, not like the usual uneducated keyboard/ couch coaches. I may be wrong, but i doubt it!!

By the way, i am not patronising you, i just enjoy your level headed

posts!

Cheers


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:04 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 20216
Location: North of the border
Trigger wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Jim is a deep thinker and his posts are worth reading.
Unfortunately he has no idea on the modern game and he is disinclined to back away from anything he writes.

He is an important part of TC, regardless of how much we disagree with him.
He rarely goes the man and that is the essence of a site like this. People disagree and get on with it. That's Jim's forte. I don't often agree with him but that isn't important in any way. What is important is that we can all come on here and spruik our ignorance.


I agree his posts are worth reading, but not all of them.
I hate being told what is fact when it is actually opinion.

He rarely goes for the man, but what do you call this:

Quote:
What part of this year you not see. A shit coach is a shit coach. That's not changing. None so blind that will not see.


Does it imply, I'm blind if I don't agree?

Well, whilst I have my doubts about Bolton, I also can see how his hands are tied with the players he's got at his disposal at such an early stage of their development, plus injuries.

We knew the pain we would go through would be greater than the previous year when we traded Gibbs for 2 First rounders. Which was a great deal imo. Then following Docherty's ACL in the first training session, we knew we were in deep trouble, but hoped we could do better than 2017.

Just ignore his posts,I do ( like some might do with mine!!)
But I am going to play the man in this instance, he has no idea and sprukes absolute crap virtually every post!!

He has never coached a team or group of players on any semi pro or professional level and most of the non educated tend to get found out when some who have experienced the real sporting world see thru the crap!!

Sorry that is fact!!

And by the way Bondi, i would suggest you have have had some experience in the real sporting world, not like the usual uneducated keyboard/ couch coaches. I may be wrong, but i doubt it!!

By the way, i am not patronising you, i just enjoy your level headed

posts!

Cheers



I could have coached Carlton to a spoon this year and I am sure Jim could have too

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:01 pm
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Location: The Brown Wedge
We just de-listed multiple players that were supposed to be better than the players they replaced. I'm sorry, but that's a fail in any man's language. We made our list weaker and incredibly vulnerable to injuries - and 'Murphy's Law'..............................!!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:14 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 1826
Sydney Blue wrote:
Trigger wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Jim is a deep thinker and his posts are worth reading.
Unfortunately he has no idea on the modern game and he is disinclined to back away from anything he writes.

He is an important part of TC, regardless of how much we disagree with him.
He rarely goes the man and that is the essence of a site like this. People disagree and get on with it. That's Jim's forte. I don't often agree with him but that isn't important in any way. What is important is that we can all come on here and spruik our ignorance.


I agree his posts are worth reading, but not all of them.
I hate being told what is fact when it is actually opinion.

He rarely goes for the man, but what do you call this:

Quote:
What part of this year you not see. A shit coach is a shit coach. That's not changing. None so blind that will not see.


Does it imply, I'm blind if I don't agree?

Well, whilst I have my doubts about Bolton, I also can see how his hands are tied with the players he's got at his disposal at such an early stage of their development, plus injuries.

We knew the pain we would go through would be greater than the previous year when we traded Gibbs for 2 First rounders. Which was a great deal imo. Then following Docherty's ACL in the first training session, we knew we were in deep trouble, but hoped we could do better than 2017.

Just ignore his posts,I do ( like some might do with mine!!)
But I am going to play the man in this instance, he has no idea and sprukes absolute crap virtually every post!!

He has never coached a team or group of players on any semi pro or professional level and most of the non educated tend to get found out when some who have experienced the real sporting world see thru the crap!!

Sorry that is fact!!

And by the way Bondi, i would suggest you have have had some experience in the real sporting world, not like the usual uneducated keyboard/ couch coaches. I may be wrong, but i doubt it!!

By the way, i am not patronising you, i just enjoy your level headed

posts!

Cheers



I could have coached Carlton to a spoon this year and I am sure Jim could have too


Thankyou for justifying my last post, Gold!! What kind of couch do you sit in , leather or vinyl?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
The Duke wrote:
We just de-listed multiple players that were supposed to be better than the players they replaced. I'm sorry, but that's a fail in any man's language. We made our list weaker and incredibly vulnerable to injuries - and 'Murphy's Law'..............................!!!!!!!!


Correct.

And that’s the responsibility of the list manager.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:21 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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ColourMan wrote:
The Duke wrote:
We just de-listed multiple players that were supposed to be better than the players they replaced. I'm sorry, but that's a fail in any man's language. We made our list weaker and incredibly vulnerable to injuries - and 'Murphy's Law'..............................!!!!!!!!


Correct.

And that’s the responsibility of the list manager.


Why was Malthouse responsible for everything and Bolton nothing?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:56 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I don't blame recruiters for trying to improve the list when we're cellar dwellers.

The worst thing you can do is be conservative when you're losing.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Rexy wrote:
I don't blame recruiters for trying to improve the list when we're cellar dwellers.

The worst thing you can do is be conservative when you're losing.


We had 7 wins in 2016 and on the upswing. They took a punt and it didn't come off. IMO, that's put us in a bad position where our finances will suffer and the club will find it more difficult to attract quality recruits and sponsors.

Apart from GWS and GC as new teams, no other team has culled their list to the extent Carlton did over the last 3 years. And GWS & GC had stacks of top 10 picks.......and they STILL haven't seen sustained success.

A well-managed team in the middle tier can now bring in FAs and have a good crack at a flag. The only thing that might save us is a priority pick.

My concern now is we'll offload that pick for a player that delivers little and the rinse/repeat will continue.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:18 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Quote:
We had 7 wins in 2016 and on the upswing. They took a punt and it didn't come off. IMO, that's put us in a bad position where our finances will suffer and the club will find it more difficult to attract quality recruits and sponsors.


Replacing a few duds with a few duds was only a small part of our season story this year, IMO.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:29 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Rexy wrote:
Quote:
We had 7 wins in 2016 and on the upswing. They took a punt and it didn't come off. IMO, that's put us in a bad position where our finances will suffer and the club will find it more difficult to attract quality recruits and sponsors.


Replacing a few duds with a few duds was only a small part of our season story this year, IMO.


Yeah, I can think of three that would've been handy. Agree they wouldn't have changed a heap, but it was stupid to remove them for the blokes we brought in given that we're now going to have to replace again.

We should be de-listing guys like Graham but I now wouldn't. Sadly, he now becomes important.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:24 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Yeah nah. Other than Gibbs, the 2017 departures are hardly worth a second thought.

Quote:
The Club has now made 13 changes to its playing list since the end of the 2017 season, with Bryce Gibbs departing for Adelaide and Dennis Armfield, Daniel Gorringe and Matthew Korcheck announcing their retirements. Smedts, White, Boekhorst as well as Rhys Palmer, Dylan Buckley, Kristian Jaksch, Ciaran Sheehan, Liam Sumner and Andrew Gallucci have also been delisted.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:18 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 1291
The Duke wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
The Duke wrote:
We just de-listed multiple players that were supposed to be better than the players they replaced. I'm sorry, but that's a fail in any man's language. We made our list weaker and incredibly vulnerable to injuries - and 'Murphy's Law'..............................!!!!!!!!


Correct.

And that’s the responsibility of the list manager.


Why was Malthouse responsible for everything and Bolton nothing?


Can’t help with any insights on Malthouse but Bolton was overruled several times with list management decisions....


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:23 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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and Malthouse wasn't.... glad we have learned on that front.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:32 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: The Brown Wedge
ColourMan wrote:
The Duke wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
The Duke wrote:
We just de-listed multiple players that were supposed to be better than the players they replaced. I'm sorry, but that's a fail in any man's language. We made our list weaker and incredibly vulnerable to injuries - and 'Murphy's Law'..............................!!!!!!!!


Correct.

And that’s the responsibility of the list manager.


Why was Malthouse responsible for everything and Bolton nothing?


Can’t help with any insights on Malthouse but Bolton was overruled several times with list management decisions....


Source?

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