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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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jim wrote:
After watching Ed Curnow on the Footy Show I want to know why we went with an offensive, zoning game plan again when we are purely hopeless at it. We have been horribly humiliated each time we have used it. We are totally lost. We play so much better when we use our defensive, congested game plan, and anyway, that's the way footy is played these days. We are very competitive when we play that way and look a side even in defeat. That was a winnable game yesterday and the coach F up. Pissed off with that.


I agree that i also was turned off by our "offensive" game plan - what the hell does it mean and how does it operate because I saw no evidence.

is it a game plan or just offensive; actually what pisses me off is the term offensive - to the media, offensive is the opposite of defensive but why not call it attacking - certainly not as offensive as offensive - or as offensive as our game plan.


has anyone compiled a list of BB's press conferences after games this year to see how many times he talks about youth and injuries - each one is groundhog day for me..

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:58 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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GreatEx wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
bluedog wrote:
What would he really be saying behind closed doors?

And what really is the purpose of these press conferences?

To give the supporters insight into what is going on.


Also, players are likely to be stung more by a public bagging than one done in private. Can backfire of course, but if done right to the right players, it can be a psychological winner. Having said that, the only Carlton players who could cope with a public dressing-down are probably those who least need it!


worked for barassi with brent crosswell in front of lesser players; brent has told me that ron deliberately targeted him to get the others to lift so ron wouldn't blast them...not sure it would work today though...……...but gee what we would give for tiger today...…………..

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:02 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Beatle wrote:
jim wrote:
After watching Ed Curnow on the Footy Show I want to know why we went with an offensive, zoning game plan again when we are purely hopeless at it. We have been horribly humiliated each time we have used it. We are totally lost. We play so much better when we use our defensive, congested game plan, and anyway, that's the way footy is played these days. We are very competitive when we play that way and look a side even in defeat. That was a winnable game yesterday and the coach F up. Pissed off with that.


I agree that i also was turned off by our "offensive" game plan - what the hell does it mean and how does it operate because I saw no evidence.

is it a game plan or just offensive; actually what pisses me off is the term offensive - to the media, offensive is the opposite of defensive but why not call it attacking - certainly not as offensive as offensive - or as offensive as our game plan.


has anyone compiled a list of BB's press conferences after games this year to see how many times he talks about youth and injuries - each one is groundhog day for me..


I don't mind if it was 'injuries' and 'youth' but it's not. There's no cohesion at all. No determination. No spirit. The players don't know WTF they're doing. Bolts loses his shit multiple times in the box because why? Because 'youth and injuries'?

The players either don't know the tasks Bolts wants them to perform, or they're just plain stupid. My opinion is the former.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:26 pm 
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Blue Vain wrote:
The problem isn't necessarily the drafting of midfielders IMO. Our issue is our drafted midfielders are still too young and slight to make a significant difference.
Dow, SPS, Fisher, O'Brien, I expect them all to be 150+ game players. The problem is Murphy, Docherty and Kennedy haven't been the more seasoned bodies to make the kids part players instead of the core group.
As I said elsewhere, I suspect Cripps, Murphy, Ed, Docherty, Kennedy and Lang were to be our midfield group with the kids playing a small role. Instead the kids are our main midfielders due to injury and limited pre-seasons.
Taking mids instead of De Koning or Schumacher wouldn't have solved our problem.
FWIW, I think DeKoning will be an inspired pick. He'll go past Harry at a great rate.
You have named 10 players who could be in the midfield.
I will give you 2 more in Cunningham and Polson
There should be 20
We are 8 midfield players short on the list


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:28 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Bolton's said it a couple of times in his pressers that the players are thinking through what they're doing, but that it has to become automatic.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:28 pm 
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The club is like an Alcoholic or drug addict.
They are in denial.
Until they stop making excuses and start taking responsibility we will go no where.
We will be lucky to win 1 more game for the year

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:32 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Sydney Blue wrote:
The club is like an Alcoholic or drug addict.
They are in denial.
Until they stop making excuses and start taking responsibility we will go no where.
We will be lucky to win 1 more game for the year

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I disagree. I think they WERE in denial before Bolton/SOS.

Our list was just sooo bad from top to bottom, it's going to take time.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:48 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Blue Vain wrote:
The problem isn't necessarily the drafting of midfielders IMO. Our issue is our drafted midfielders are still too young and slight to make a significant difference.
Dow, SPS, Fisher, O'Brien, I expect them all to be 150+ game players. The problem is Murphy, Docherty and Kennedy haven't been the more seasoned bodies to make the kids part players instead of the core group.
As I said elsewhere, I suspect Cripps, Murphy, Ed, Docherty, Kennedy and Lang were to be our midfield group with the kids playing a small role. Instead the kids are our main midfielders due to injury and limited pre-seasons.
Taking mids instead of De Koning or Schumacher wouldn't have solved our problem.
FWIW, I think DeKoning will be an inspired pick. He'll go past Harry at a great rate.




De Koning might well be an inspired pick - and go past Harry McKay at a rate of knots.

But the simple fact of the matter is we don’t have enough mids.

I’ve said it elsewhere - look at Geelong, they have Ablett, Dangerfield, Selwood, Duncan, Menagola etc etc, yet they their first four picks in the draft this year was more mids.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:04 pm 
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Bolts ...... if you want to inspire our players just show them the last minute of the Richmond v Geelong game. Watch Rioli and be inspired.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:09 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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AGRO wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
The problem isn't necessarily the drafting of midfielders IMO. Our issue is our drafted midfielders are still too young and slight to make a significant difference.
Dow, SPS, Fisher, O'Brien, I expect them all to be 150+ game players. The problem is Murphy, Docherty and Kennedy haven't been the more seasoned bodies to make the kids part players instead of the core group.
As I said elsewhere, I suspect Cripps, Murphy, Ed, Docherty, Kennedy and Lang were to be our midfield group with the kids playing a small role. Instead the kids are our main midfielders due to injury and limited pre-seasons.
Taking mids instead of De Koning or Schumacher wouldn't have solved our problem.
FWIW, I think DeKoning will be an inspired pick. He'll go past Harry at a great rate.




De Koning might well be an inspired pick - and go past Harry McKay at a rate of knots.

But the simple fact of the matter is we don’t have enough mids.

I’ve said it elsewhere - look at Geelong, they have Ablett, Dangerfield, Selwood, Duncan, Menagola etc etc, yet they their first four picks in the draft this year was more mids.


More mids in last year’s draft would not have made difference this year. As BV righty says, more kids is not what our midfield needs right now.

I don’t have any issue whatsoever with what we’ve taken in the last 3 NDs. What we might have done better is the way we used our selections in the last few rookie drafts and DFA periods.

LeBois, Gallucci, Shaw, Mullet, O’Shea. One or two of those selections ought to have been a mature age genuine mid who could shoulder some of the midfield load while our kids develop. Jacob Ballard, Matt Hanson and Adam Marcon are 3 from the VFL who immediately come to mind. Possibly even little Tom Wilson. There would be more in the other state leagues.

Alternatively, keep Palmer & Smedts for another year instead of picking up Shaw & Mullet. I’m not saying it necessarily would have translated into more wins in 2018, but it might have given us a slightly more balanced list in the short term. We have 1 or 2 too many flanker types and need a couple more who can help at the stoppages while our kids grow.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:15 pm 
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Just to add on - I think the plan was early in games Cripps spend time forward and midfield until the pace went out of the game and his time in the midfield would be ramped up but injuries to the wrong group buggered that. And I would add Picket as a player Bolts would have planned to run through the midfield with Kennedy. Lang etc.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Blue Beatle wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
bluedog wrote:
What would he really be saying behind closed doors?

And what really is the purpose of these press conferences?

To give the supporters insight into what is going on.


Also, players are likely to be stung more by a public bagging than one done in private. Can backfire of course, but if done right to the right players, it can be a psychological winner. Having said that, the only Carlton players who could cope with a public dressing-down are probably those who least need it!


worked for barassi with brent crosswell in front of lesser players; brent has told me that ron deliberately targeted him to get the others to lift so ron wouldn't blast them...not sure it would work today though...……...but gee what we would give for tiger today...…………..


Shit Beatle,i would think about giving my left one for a modern day Tiger..............Breathtaking,nutcase,but breathtaking.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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aboynamedsue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
The problem isn't necessarily the drafting of midfielders IMO. Our issue is our drafted midfielders are still too young and slight to make a significant difference.
Dow, SPS, Fisher, O'Brien, I expect them all to be 150+ game players. The problem is Murphy, Docherty and Kennedy haven't been the more seasoned bodies to make the kids part players instead of the core group.
As I said elsewhere, I suspect Cripps, Murphy, Ed, Docherty, Kennedy and Lang were to be our midfield group with the kids playing a small role. Instead the kids are our main midfielders due to injury and limited pre-seasons.
Taking mids instead of De Koning or Schumacher wouldn't have solved our problem.
FWIW, I think DeKoning will be an inspired pick. He'll go past Harry at a great rate.




De Koning might well be an inspired pick - and go past Harry McKay at a rate of knots.

But the simple fact of the matter is we don’t have enough mids.

I’ve said it elsewhere - look at Geelong, they have Ablett, Dangerfield, Selwood, Duncan, Menagola etc etc, yet they their first four picks in the draft this year was more mids.


More mids in last year’s draft would not have made difference this year. As BV righty says, more kids is not what our midfield needs right now. .



The list is unbalanced which is Stephen Silvagni's fault.

I understand that more midfield kids in would not make a difference this year - but it will make a difference next year and the year after.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:52 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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AGRO wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
The problem isn't necessarily the drafting of midfielders IMO. Our issue is our drafted midfielders are still too young and slight to make a significant difference.
Dow, SPS, Fisher, O'Brien, I expect them all to be 150+ game players. The problem is Murphy, Docherty and Kennedy haven't been the more seasoned bodies to make the kids part players instead of the core group.
As I said elsewhere, I suspect Cripps, Murphy, Ed, Docherty, Kennedy and Lang were to be our midfield group with the kids playing a small role. Instead the kids are our main midfielders due to injury and limited pre-seasons.
Taking mids instead of De Koning or Schumacher wouldn't have solved our problem.
FWIW, I think DeKoning will be an inspired pick. He'll go past Harry at a great rate.




De Koning might well be an inspired pick - and go past Harry McKay at a rate of knots.

But the simple fact of the matter is we don’t have enough mids.

I’ve said it elsewhere - look at Geelong, they have Ablett, Dangerfield, Selwood, Duncan, Menagola etc etc, yet they their first four picks in the draft this year was more mids.


More mids in last year’s draft would not have made difference this year. As BV righty says, more kids is not what our midfield needs right now. .



The list is unbalanced which is Stephen Silvagni's fault.

I understand that more midfield kids in would not make a difference this year - but it will make a difference next year and the year after.


Perhaps he wasn't banking on Kennedy, Lang and Murphy being injured.

Perhaps the list build hasn't finished.

Perhaps we already have FA/Trade Targets in mind this preseason.

Perhaps we for once were looking ahead at upcoming drafts when this rebuild started and are going to target our top 30 picks this draft on them.

Perhaps we didn't rate the mids from 30+ last year in what was seen as a thin draft. Constable was overlooked by many due to pace/endurance, Worpel kicking, anyone else?

How does your combination of Fogarty/Constable at #10/#30 over O'Brien/TDK help the list balance to any great extent?

Perhaps short term bigger bodies were seen as hindering the amount of midfield time that Dow, Fisher and SPS would receive. Hence the reluctutance to play Kerridge and Graham early in the year. As for taking mids instead of OShea, Mullet and Shaw, chances are they were only going to be of the same quality of Kerridge/Graham, and only of a short term benefit.

From memory most of GWS fringe players from the beginning were not midfielders - Cornes, Thornton, Brogan, Setanta etc, which more than likely fast tracked the likes of Treloar, Sheil, Whitfield, Adams. Scully and Ward were their equivalant of Curnow and Cripps.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:53 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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AGRO wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
The problem isn't necessarily the drafting of midfielders IMO. Our issue is our drafted midfielders are still too young and slight to make a significant difference.
Dow, SPS, Fisher, O'Brien, I expect them all to be 150+ game players. The problem is Murphy, Docherty and Kennedy haven't been the more seasoned bodies to make the kids part players instead of the core group.
As I said elsewhere, I suspect Cripps, Murphy, Ed, Docherty, Kennedy and Lang were to be our midfield group with the kids playing a small role. Instead the kids are our main midfielders due to injury and limited pre-seasons.
Taking mids instead of De Koning or Schumacher wouldn't have solved our problem.
FWIW, I think DeKoning will be an inspired pick. He'll go past Harry at a great rate.




De Koning might well be an inspired pick - and go past Harry McKay at a rate of knots.

But the simple fact of the matter is we don’t have enough mids.

I’ve said it elsewhere - look at Geelong, they have Ablett, Dangerfield, Selwood, Duncan, Menagola etc etc, yet they their first four picks in the draft this year was more mids.


More mids in last year’s draft would not have made difference this year. As BV righty says, more kids is not what our midfield needs right now. .



The list is unbalanced which is Stephen Silvagni's fault.

I understand that more midfield kids in would not make a difference this year - but it will make a difference next year and the year after.


If you want a balance list in 3 years time, then you need the list we have now.

Talls take more time than mids, so by the time the talls come good the mids we pick up in the next couple drafts will make a balanced list in developmental sense.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:05 pm 
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Smedts and Boekhorst were prematurely moved on
Bad decision, shocking decision
They would have been handy now...not saying they were great but would be a marked improvement on O'Shea, Mullett and Shaw

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:28 pm 
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Blue Vain wrote:
The Duke wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
bluedog wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Yesterday’s presser was the first time Ive been disappointed in Bolts’ words.

Yesterday was inexcusable and Bolts had the perfect opportunity to really put the blowtorch on the players that delivered that performance.

It wasn’t the time to talk green shoots, injuries, “breaking even in the 2nd half”, list turnover or age profile. It wasn’t the day for sugarcoating.

It was the time to make it clear that no matter the context, lack of effort and application is unacceptable. That’s what we saw, it was clear as day. What irked me most was when he said (paraphrased) that these are professionals who don’t go out and “not try”, when we know from our own captain’s words that this does happen.

I’m still on board, but yesterday was not Bolts’ finest hour.



What would he really be saying behind closed doors?

And what really is the purpose of these press conferences?

To give the supporters insight into what is going on.


Supporters aren't stupid - well, most aren't. You can fool some of the people some of the time etc etc. Green shoots, exciting times, lights at the end of tunnels - doesn't cut it any more.

In the context of a 150-year-old footy club, we're at crisis point. If this continues, the road back will take another 2 decades and will only be complete with multiple flags.

The competition has left us behind. We're the new Fitzroy.


The new Fitzroy. :lol:

Before the season started, our midfield would have been Cripps, Murphy, Curnow, Docherty, Kennedy, with cameo appearances from the kids. Instead we have Cripps, Ed and kids. Dow, SPS, Fisher. They're our midfielders. First and second year players.
Murphy, Docherty, Kennedy, all shot with injuries.

Forget forward lines and backlines, the game starts at the contest and we're relying on kids to be our engine room. What makes it worse, our VFL midfield currently consists of non AFL listed players so we cant even bring any strength up. Compounding the issue is Kreuzers inability to compete in the centre square against tall ruck men. On Saturday we had kids playing against Fyfe, Neale, Mundy, Blakely and Sandilands giving them absolute silver service.

We rebuilt our spine. We rebuilt our midfield. The trouble is our kids are currently our midfield. The experienced bigger bodies are not there to carry the load.
If we get to the end of the year and haven't improved significantly with 4+ wins, go your hardest. Until then, look at the reality.


:clap:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:46 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Effes wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
The Duke wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
bluedog wrote:
[quote="Donstuie"]Yesterday’s presser was the first time Ive been disappointed in Bolts’ words.

Yesterday was inexcusable and Bolts had the perfect opportunity to really put the blowtorch on the players that delivered that performance.

It wasn’t the time to talk green shoots, injuries, “breaking even in the 2nd half”, list turnover or age profile. It wasn’t the day for sugarcoating.

It was the time to make it clear that no matter the context, lack of effort and application is unacceptable. That’s what we saw, it was clear as day. What irked me most was when he said (paraphrased) that these are professionals who don’t go out and “not try”, when we know from our own captain’s words that this does happen.

I’m still on board, but yesterday was not Bolts’ finest hour.



What would he really be saying behind closed doors?

And what really is the purpose of these press conferences?

To give the supporters insight into what is going on.


Supporters aren't stupid - well, most aren't. You can fool some of the people some of the time etc etc. Green shoots, exciting times, lights at the end of tunnels - doesn't cut it any more.

In the context of a 150-year-old footy club, we're at crisis point. If this continues, the road back will take another 2 decades and will only be complete with multiple flags.

The competition has left us behind. We're the new Fitzroy.


The new Fitzroy. :lol:

Before the season started, our midfield would have been Cripps, Murphy, Curnow, Docherty, Kennedy, with cameo appearances from the kids. Instead we have Cripps, Ed and kids. Dow, SPS, Fisher. They're our midfielders. First and second year players.
Murphy, Docherty, Kennedy, all shot with injuries.

Forget forward lines and backlines, the game starts at the contest and we're relying on kids to be our engine room. What makes it worse, our VFL midfield currently consists of non AFL listed players so we cant even bring any strength up. Compounding the issue is Kreuzers inability to compete in the centre square against tall ruck men. On Saturday we had kids playing against Fyfe, Neale, Mundy, Blakely and Sandilands giving them absolute silver service.

We rebuilt our spine. We rebuilt our midfield. The trouble is our kids are currently our midfield. The experienced bigger bodies are not there to carry the load.
If we get to the end of the year and haven't improved significantly with 4+ wins, go your hardest. Until then, look at the reality.


:clap:[/quote]Last year we had a midfield that had Cripps Murph Ed Gibbs and Docherty was available we won 6 games.
To think that Kennedy instead of Gibbs was going to make a difference is laughable at best.
It is not the cattle it is what they are being instructed.
If those players were all fit and firing we would be looking at a 5 to 6 game winning season again.
We lost Ed last year and fell away.
1 piece of the zigsaw goes missing and it is season over.
Bolton and his assistant coaches will never turn this side around I don't care who you bring to the club via free agents or draft.
He is the new Mark Neeld .
You can see it week in week out.
What Palmer said probably was the closest to the mark.
The guy I feel sorry for is Cripps he is in Brownlow form and most likely will miss because the teams not winning.
I come across people like Bolton every day in business.
They say all the right things at the right time but ultimately produce nothing

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Last year we had a midfield that had Cripps Murph Ed Gibbs and Docherty was available we won 6 games.
To think that Kennedy instead of Gibbs was going to make a difference is laughable at best.
It is not the cattle it is what they are being instructed.
If those players were all fit and firing we would be looking at a 5 to 6 game winning season again.
We lost Ed last year and fell away.
1 piece of the zigsaw goes missing and it is season over.
Bolton and his assistant coaches will never turn this side around I don't care who you bring to the club via free agents or draft.
He is the new Mark Neeld .
You can see it week in week out.
What Palmer said probably was the closest to the mark.
The guy I feel sorry for is Cripps he is in Brownlow form and most likely will miss because the teams not winning.
I come across people like Bolton every day in business.
They say all the right things at the right time but ultimately produce nothing

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Not sure you recognize what condition Kernahan and Malthouse left the place in. It's been vandalised for more than 10 years.

Give the new guys a chance at least to attempt a rebuild.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:11 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Rexy wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Last year we had a midfield that had Cripps Murph Ed Gibbs and Docherty was available we won 6 games.
To think that Kennedy instead of Gibbs was going to make a difference is laughable at best.
It is not the cattle it is what they are being instructed.
If those players were all fit and firing we would be looking at a 5 to 6 game winning season again.
We lost Ed last year and fell away.
1 piece of the zigsaw goes missing and it is season over.
Bolton and his assistant coaches will never turn this side around I don't care who you bring to the club via free agents or draft.
He is the new Mark Neeld .
You can see it week in week out.
What Palmer said probably was the closest to the mark.
The guy I feel sorry for is Cripps he is in Brownlow form and most likely will miss because the teams not winning.
I come across people like Bolton every day in business.
They say all the right things at the right time but ultimately produce nothing

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Not sure you recognize what condition Kernahan and Malthouse left the place in. It's been vandalised for more than 10 years.

Give the new guys a chance at least to attempt a rebuild.
They are into their 3rd year
2 of the last 22 games
Worst % in history
No sign of a system
No consistency with team selection
As Walls said the dropping of Mackay is baffling
No effort from the players
Captain thinking of leaving
Players lacking confidence to have shots on goal
Simple fumble , dropped marks missing the handball target from 2 metres.
Players totally devoid of confidence.


How low do you want to sink before something is done

Remember Freo WB were younger

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