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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:02 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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DocSherrin III wrote:
MPH78 wrote:
At this rate, I’m expected Doc to post my long lost baby photos :lol:


Image
Freakish....
Is big Mal slipping a tenner into Perc's towel??
I'm worried about what happened next (NTTAWWT)

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:53 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Effes wrote:
Humpers wrote:
Effes wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


With all due respect, The Roar is just the same as this site; lots of bloviation, but under a slightly more legit banner.


Fair enough, but what do you actually think of the points/arguments made in the article?

In my opinion:
- Silvagni did very well in the 2015 trade and draft period.
- I don't get the uproar regarding the Tuohy trade - Marchbank is a quality young defender and providing he stays on the park will be a valuable player for us. Tuohy is nothing special and wouldn't make much difference to our current side.

- My main criticism of SOS was giving up a first rounder for McGovern. I like the Gov however he isn't what we really needed and is injury prone. If not for this trade we wouldn't be in the position we currently find ourselves giving up pick #1 to the Crows.


I agree re 2015 - Weitering, Curnow, McKay and Cuningham is decent.

In terms of our current position and that trade - do you think the club would have made that trade with Adelaide had Docherty torn his ACL prior to the trade period? Lots of bad luck involved. Would we be 18th on the ladder if Docherty had played this season?

It was bad luck when Docherty did his ACL the first time. Not so much the second time as I believe that the chances of a recurrence of the injury are something like 10 times higher.
Saying that, if we didn't recruit McGovern and for example McKay got injured (he was injury prone before this year) then I guess we'd all be saying that we should have recruited McGovern to take the load off Charlie.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:59 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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DocSherrin III wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Just make Sellers president FFS.


Bloody back pockets...

Image

hope someone taught sellers to handball - if he had followed through the ball would have gone to the feet of a teammate ....... or the opposition......wait a minute isn't that was we see too often?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:10 pm 
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Ken Hands

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Rexy wrote:
Not surprising some were uncomfortable being uncomfortable :roll:


You can accuse many players on our list of this....NOT Kade Simpson.

If he was fed up, that speaks volumes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:23 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Rexy wrote:
Ockham's Razor wrote:
MPH78 wrote:
Appreciate the wishes everyone, cheers.

Hard not to wonder what has broken down internally over the last month or so. It was rather stark.

If possible, would love OR or any other insider to shed some further light on this please?


The turning point was the player only meeting post GWS.

A major discussion point was that coaching was too prescriptive and players felt they were being over coached. A few openly said how they really felt.

BB hadn't lost the players at that stage but they were questioning the approach. Some could clearly see the end of their AFL career being a miserable slog if things continued on same path.

Many players felt they weren't able to play with any freedom & they expressed this.

No surprise at all that one of them enthusiastically embraced the charity event a few days later.

Interesting response / reaction to a separate senior player by BB shortly after that.

Also BB wasn't pleased with how the start of this meeting was portrayed in the media.

Need to reiterate that BB hadn't lost the players, but signs were developing.


Reads to me like a couple of senior players were undermining the coach leaving Cripps and the young guys totally confused .


I didn't get that at all.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:35 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


Quote:
At the press conference where Carlton confirmed Bolton’s axing, club president Mark LoGiudice was able to offer no better reason for Bolton’s axing than simply to say he had not won enough games, that the accountability for winning matches ultimately rested with the senior coach.

That’s the kind of logic I’d expect to see from a Nuffies on AFL Pages facebook post. The Blues were reportedly so disorganised as to not have a caretaker coach lined up when they sacked Bolton, with David Teague telling Sam McClure it was “news to him” that he’d be taking over.


Interesting read, with good comparisons to Brisbane's development. There's a lot of hard facts in the article that only time will tell if they are true or not, even if you disagree with them now.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:42 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Sidefx wrote:
Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


Quote:
At the press conference where Carlton confirmed Bolton’s axing, club president Mark LoGiudice was able to offer no better reason for Bolton’s axing than simply to say he had not won enough games, that the accountability for winning matches ultimately rested with the senior coach.

That’s the kind of logic I’d expect to see from a Nuffies on AFL Pages facebook post. The Blues were reportedly so disorganised as to not have a caretaker coach lined up when they sacked Bolton, with David Teague telling Sam McClure it was “news to him” that he’d be taking over.


Interesting read, with good comparisons to Brisbane's development. There's a lot of hard facts in the article that only time will tell if they are true or not, even if you disagree with them now.



Was Teague expected to confirm he was caretaker before the presser was even held?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:48 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


Quote:
At the press conference where Carlton confirmed Bolton’s axing, club president Mark LoGiudice was able to offer no better reason for Bolton’s axing than simply to say he had not won enough games, that the accountability for winning matches ultimately rested with the senior coach.

That’s the kind of logic I’d expect to see from a Nuffies on AFL Pages facebook post. The Blues were reportedly so disorganised as to not have a caretaker coach lined up when they sacked Bolton, with David Teague telling Sam McClure it was “news to him” that he’d be taking over.


Interesting read, with good comparisons to Brisbane's development. There's a lot of hard facts in the article that only time will tell if they are true or not, even if you disagree with them now.



Was Teague expected to confirm he was caretaker before the presser was even held?


Not sure what the timeline was for that, but it wasn't the point I was highlighting. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:50 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Was Teague expected to confirm he was caretaker before the presser was even held?


You normally wouldn't respond with "It's news to me" - rather "Can't comment on that - the appropriate people will announce something shortly"....but I'm not blaming Teague - it's the scatterbrain approach the club have operated in for a long time now. Some basic key messages/holding statement should have been developed months ago.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:02 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Sidefx wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


Quote:
At the press conference where Carlton confirmed Bolton’s axing, club president Mark LoGiudice was able to offer no better reason for Bolton’s axing than simply to say he had not won enough games, that the accountability for winning matches ultimately rested with the senior coach.

That’s the kind of logic I’d expect to see from a Nuffies on AFL Pages facebook post. The Blues were reportedly so disorganised as to not have a caretaker coach lined up when they sacked Bolton, with David Teague telling Sam McClure it was “news to him” that he’d be taking over.


Interesting read, with good comparisons to Brisbane's development. There's a lot of hard facts in the article that only time will tell if they are true or not, even if you disagree with them now.



Was Teague expected to confirm he was caretaker before the presser was even held?


Not sure what the timeline was for that, but it wasn't the point I was highlighting. :wink:



yeah I know, I was alluding more to the fact that the media surely don't expect transparency in that situation

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:04 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
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Sidefx wrote:
Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


Quote:
At the press conference where Carlton confirmed Bolton’s axing, club president Mark LoGiudice was able to offer no better reason for Bolton’s axing than simply to say he had not won enough games, that the accountability for winning matches ultimately rested with the senior coach.

That’s the kind of logic I’d expect to see from a Nuffies on AFL Pages facebook post. The Blues were reportedly so disorganised as to not have a caretaker coach lined up when they sacked Bolton, with David Teague telling Sam McClure it was “news to him” that he’d be taking over.


Interesting read, with good comparisons to Brisbane's development. There's a lot of hard facts in the article that only time will tell if they are true or not, even if you disagree with them now.


Roar forgot that Brissie also got priority pick and afl assistance which if we were afforded the same means we would have kept our first round pick and the whole sos bashing holds no water at all


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:11 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Steve_C7 wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


Quote:
At the press conference where Carlton confirmed Bolton’s axing, club president Mark LoGiudice was able to offer no better reason for Bolton’s axing than simply to say he had not won enough games, that the accountability for winning matches ultimately rested with the senior coach.

That’s the kind of logic I’d expect to see from a Nuffies on AFL Pages facebook post. The Blues were reportedly so disorganised as to not have a caretaker coach lined up when they sacked Bolton, with David Teague telling Sam McClure it was “news to him” that he’d be taking over.


Interesting read, with good comparisons to Brisbane's development. There's a lot of hard facts in the article that only time will tell if they are true or not, even if you disagree with them now.


Roar forgot that Brissie also got priority pick and afl assistance which if we were afforded the same means we would have kept our first round pick and the whole sos bashing holds no water at all


I think you'll find, the point is we didn't get one and yet the decision was still made to swap the pick before our age and experience had moved upwards and with high risk consequences as we have seen this week. The question that remains to be answered is, has the right head been rolled out the door? Let's hope the club knows what they are doing!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:22 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Sidefx wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


Quote:
At the press conference where Carlton confirmed Bolton’s axing, club president Mark LoGiudice was able to offer no better reason for Bolton’s axing than simply to say he had not won enough games, that the accountability for winning matches ultimately rested with the senior coach.

That’s the kind of logic I’d expect to see from a Nuffies on AFL Pages facebook post. The Blues were reportedly so disorganised as to not have a caretaker coach lined up when they sacked Bolton, with David Teague telling Sam McClure it was “news to him” that he’d be taking over.


Interesting read, with good comparisons to Brisbane's development. There's a lot of hard facts in the article that only time will tell if they are true or not, even if you disagree with them now.


Roar forgot that Brissie also got priority pick and afl assistance which if we were afforded the same means we would have kept our first round pick and the whole sos bashing holds no water at all


I think you'll find, the point is we didn't get one and yet the decision was still made to swap the pick before our age and experience had moved upwards and with high risk consequences as we have seen this week. The question that remains to be answered is, has the right head been rolled out the door? Let's hope the club knows what they are doing!


hope we don't fold.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:10 am 
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Geoff Southby

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Seems everything our eyes were telling us match up to what we have been hearing.

From what we can piece together seems the players themselves had issues which had reached a tipping point during and after the GWS game.

Then the players only meeting obviously Thomas and Simmo had had enough and didn’t want the rest of their playing days to be this joyless slog. I also believe Cripps wasn’t happy with the lack of help and the game plan as well.

Seems from there bolts didn’t take the feedback overly well and stuck to his guns. Daisy goes gets pissed at a charity event as a release.

St Kilda game you see animated chat with Cripps and Doch on the bench during the 2nd quarter, and the whole game our side looked a complete mess with structures all over the place and a side second guessing themselves all the time.

Then obviously simmo had upset bolts so got himself out of the side for the Essendon* game. The Essendon* game looked like the side had just given up any hope and was a completely joyless performance. Cripps over it all too.

I think everyone knew during that Essendon* game, both on the field and in the crowd that bolts was done probably by about half time.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:33 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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The press almost to a man have been saying for weeks BB should go, he has no plan, no development, no wins, can't get the team over 100 points and now he's gone they are saying how unjust it was.

The reality is they have NFI and are just trying to sell papers or get 'likes'.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:42 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 1002
Sidefx wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


Quote:
At the press conference where Carlton confirmed Bolton’s axing, club president Mark LoGiudice was able to offer no better reason for Bolton’s axing than simply to say he had not won enough games, that the accountability for winning matches ultimately rested with the senior coach.

That’s the kind of logic I’d expect to see from a Nuffies on AFL Pages facebook post. The Blues were reportedly so disorganised as to not have a caretaker coach lined up when they sacked Bolton, with David Teague telling Sam McClure it was “news to him” that he’d be taking over.


Interesting read, with good comparisons to Brisbane's development. There's a lot of hard facts in the article that only time will tell if they are true or not, even if you disagree with them now.


Roar forgot that Brissie also got priority pick and afl assistance which if we were afforded the same means we would have kept our first round pick and the whole sos bashing holds no water at all


I think you'll find, the point is we didn't get one and yet the decision was still made to swap the pick before our age and experience had moved upwards and with high risk consequences as we have seen this week. The question that remains to be answered is, has the right head been rolled out the door? Let's hope the club knows what they are doing!


The plan is and alway should be to get the right amount of top end talent and then add some mature bodies.

Last year was the final year of first round picks and whatever or wherever we finished this year we are going to go for a trade. Salary cap space has been made and we weren’t expecting Adelaide to be a top 4 team so our first rounder will still be a decent offer to the club we want to trade with

Unfortunately for bolts, he needed to at least show that there is a team on the up and our players are enjoying themselves to sell the club to outside players

Hence why our president is saying that we are sticking to the plan and we are committed to it.

For all the crap in the media that more need to go, it is far, far, far too early to rate sos on list strategy as it still isn’t complete. This year he would be planning to add experienced players and small forward and even the. We need to get that core group to 100 games to see if they ha e it or not, only then can we judge sos which is a couple years away at least


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:34 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Lace Out wrote:
I can't help but feel SOS and Bolts had a somewhat strained relationship.

This moment reiterated that for me.Image

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


Plot twist: SOS did the Stocker trade deliberately to get Bolts sakced.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:33 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Blue Vain wrote:
Perhaps he wasn't kicked out. Maybe he was standing behind the couch and no one saw him...

:lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:19 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Blue Sombrero wrote:
The press almost to a man have been saying for weeks BB should go, he has no plan, no development, no wins, can't get the team over 100 points and now he's gone they are saying how unjust it was.

The reality is they have NFI and are just trying to sell papers or get 'likes'.


To be fair, most in the media are saying it was the right call.
They are then asking whether others also need to shoulder the blame.

For mine, I think the questions about the Board are fair but not because they backed and then sacked Bolton. Boards need to be able to fire coaches without their own positions being questioned because of what turns out to have been a bad appointment. Otherwise, they just won’t fire them.
I don’t know either way about how good the Board is or not but I do note they have pretty much transformed the admin and esp football department at the same time as SOS & Co have turned over the list.
And SOS has done a pretty good job transforming our list - there are hardly any players he has got rid of that I am that upset about. We made reasonably good trades for Tuohy, Gibbs and Henderson.
The only query for me is about whether he could have replaced them with better options. Personally, I think it was worth it to give previously highly regarded juniors another shot to see if we could find a gem. Yes, a few more seasoned players would have been good but then again, we still have Murphy, Kreuzer, Docherty, Simpson and Thomas as well as Cripps.

I’m hopefully that Teague can give them the freedom to play and that whoever the next coach, he is able to get the best out of them. Because I think it’s a pretty good list.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:21 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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17th Premiership wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
The press almost to a man have been saying for weeks BB should go, he has no plan, no development, no wins, can't get the team over 100 points and now he's gone they are saying how unjust it was.

The reality is they have NFI and are just trying to sell papers or get 'likes'.


To be fair, most in the media are saying it was the right call.
They are then asking whether others also need to shoulder the blame.

For mine, I think the questions about the Board are fair but not because they backed and then sacked Bolton. Boards need to be able to fire coaches without their own positions being questioned because of what turns out to have been a bad appointment. Otherwise, they just won’t fire them.
I don’t know either way about how good the Board is or not but I do note they have pretty much transformed the admin and esp football department at the same time as SOS & Co have turned over the list.
And SOS has done a pretty good job transforming our list - there are hardly any players he has got rid of that I am that upset about. We made reasonably good trades for Tuohy, Gibbs and Henderson.
The only query for me is about whether he could have replaced them with better options. Personally, I think it was worth it to give previously highly regarded juniors another shot to see if we could find a gem. Yes, a few more seasoned players would have been good but then again, we still have Murphy, Kreuzer, Docherty, Simpson and Thomas as well as Cripps.

I’m hopefully that Teague can give them the freedom to play and that whoever the next coach, he is able to get the best out of them. Because I think it’s a pretty good list.

I agree.
On paper it looks oK. We have enough raw talent to build a team around and if w can kep thm togethr, the wins will come.
Teague has got nothing to lose. If he can get the players and supporters happy with the way they turn up every week, he will have done OK preparing us all for next year.
Next year. I am so sick of it always being next year. I must admit I thought we would finish about 13-14 this year.
Maybe next year.

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