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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:50 am 
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Craig Bradley

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thanks OR for the intel


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:52 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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You could see it on Sunday, players just throwing the ball on the boot blindly. There were so many easy marks by Essendon* players as a result. It was like every player was in on it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:57 am 
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formerly King Kenny
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verbs wrote:
You could see it on Sunday, players just throwing the ball on the boot blindly. There were so many easy marks by Essendon** players as a result. It was like every player was in on it.


Players gave up, including Cripps. Care factor had gone.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:05 am 
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Rod Ashman
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The Normal One wrote:
verbs wrote:
You could see it on Sunday, players just throwing the ball on the boot blindly. There were so many easy marks by Essendon*** players as a result. It was like every player was in on it.


Players gave up, including Cripps. Care factor had gone.


Their way, subconsciously or not, of getting the coach moved on ...?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:09 am 
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formerly BlueRob
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As long as never have another Elliot in charge.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:11 am 
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Rod Ashman
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DocSherrin III wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Just make Sellers president FFS.


Bloody back pockets...

Image


Solved ... Doc obviously supplied Aaron Joseph with the compromising pix of the coach.
Similar to the one Polson had his hands on for awhile of the current MC.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:12 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Thanks OR
With regard the player meeting; I found it strange Cripps went on radio and said the coaches were “kicked out”
Bolton, in his presser said they weren’t.
Thought it was odd at the time that BB would deny it or even bother to disagree.
Perhaps he didn’t want it known the conversation centered around coaching

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:40 am 
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Geoff Southby
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choo wrote:
Perhaps he didn’t want it known the conversation centered around coaching


It’s about someone not wanting anyone to know that he’s not fully supported and fully aware of everything that’s going on. Egotistical IMO

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:43 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Perhaps he wasn't kicked out. Maybe he was standing behind the couch and no one saw him...

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:57 pm 
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John Nicholls
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I can only see a 2:43 long video of Doc and Crippa - is there anything longer?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:59 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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The Duke wrote:
BigKev wrote:
The Duke wrote:
BigKev wrote:
The club is saying through their actions that everyone is doing their job well except for the head coach - and that's why we're not winning as many games as we should be.

Sounds to me like we've learnt nothing in the past 20 years.


What's your assessment of the situation?


Wow Duke - that's the most generous response I've ever had. Cheers!

I think that the club has panicked and yielded to outside pressure. I suspect that the board and senior management started to fear for their own positions, or even worse their "reputations". Now they can puff their chests out like big men and make big statements like "I don't accept failure". This is not a strong decision. A strong decision would've been to gather everyone together and reinforce that we're a club, we're going through a difficult time, we believe everyone here is capable of great things and we're going to back you all in. No one's getting sacked - let's sort it out together.

That would've taken courage. Far easier just to pick one person and sack them, (and therefore give everyone else the easy out). Sadly this seems to be the Carlton way - so around we go again.

I'll make one qualification to my rant: I'm not part of the inner sanctum and have made a number of assumptions regarding the relationships between Bolton, the other coaches and the players which I have assumed to be good.


Okay - first comment - I have no beef with anyone.

I think you've made many assumptions there of how people feel and what they've decided based on not much than a feeling. It's clear we're not getting the best out of this playing group. This article seems pretty close to the money IMO https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/wha ... 51u11.html


Duke - just need to make sure there's no misunderstanding here: that was a genuine "thank-you" comment of mine. Not being sarcastic, having-a-go or anything. Genuinely thankful to be asked my opinion.

FWIW I also agree with the main thrust of that article. In fact I'd take it further. It seems to me that almost every player who comes to Carlton either doesn't develop or goes backwards.

What I really question is whether this is just down to one person. It seems unlikely to me.

And yes, my assumptions are substantial. The contents of the "players only" meeting concerned me. There's a great post earlier from OR that paints a picture that I think is supportive of Bolton's removal. If this bloke though has got to the point where he's over-coaching the players then I'd like the club to examine a bit further how that happened. I'm quite sure that's not how he started out. It's just too easy for those at the top to say "he was the problem".


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:29 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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TheBluesMuse wrote:
choo wrote:
Perhaps he didn’t want it known the conversation centered around coaching


It’s about someone not wanting anyone to know that he’s not fully supported and fully aware of everything that’s going on. Egotistical IMO



small man....

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:39 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


When a new coach comes in the list normally gets blown up then and there.

In this case it was delayed a couple of years.

As is usually the case with Carlton, the natives get restless.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:56 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


With all due respect, The Roar is just the same as this site; lots of bloviation, but under a slightly more legit banner.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:01 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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bluechampion wrote:
Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


With all due respect, The Roar is just the same as this site; lots of bloviation, but under a slightly more legit banner.


Fair enough, but what do you actually think of the points/arguments made in the article?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:16 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Effes wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


With all due respect, The Roar is just the same as this site; lots of bloviation, but under a slightly more legit banner.


Fair enough, but what do you actually think of the points/arguments made in the article?

In my opinion:
- Silvagni did very well in the 2015 trade and draft period.
- I don't get the uproar regarding the Tuohy trade - Marchbank is a quality young defender and providing he stays on the park will be a valuable player for us. Tuohy is nothing special and wouldn't make much difference to our current side.

- My main criticism of SOS was giving up a first rounder for McGovern. I like the Gov however he isn't what we really needed and is injury prone. If not for this trade we wouldn't be in the position we currently find ourselves giving up pick #1 to the Crows.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:24 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Humpers wrote:
Effes wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


With all due respect, The Roar is just the same as this site; lots of bloviation, but under a slightly more legit banner.


Fair enough, but what do you actually think of the points/arguments made in the article?

In my opinion:
- Silvagni did very well in the 2015 trade and draft period.
- I don't get the uproar regarding the Tuohy trade - Marchbank is a quality young defender and providing he stays on the park will be a valuable player for us. Tuohy is nothing special and wouldn't make much difference to our current side.

- My main criticism of SOS was giving up a first rounder for McGovern. I like the Gov however he isn't what we really needed and is injury prone. If not for this trade we wouldn't be in the position we currently find ourselves giving up pick #1 to the Crows.


I agree re 2015 - Weitering, Curnow, McKay and Cuningham is decent.

In terms of our current position and that trade - do you think the club would have made that trade with Adelaide had Docherty torn his ACL prior to the trade period? Lots of bad luck involved. Would we be 18th on the ladder if Docherty had played this season?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:38 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Effes wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
Effes wrote:
Brendon Bolton was crucified to save SOS's sins: https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/04/b ... soss-sins/


With all due respect, The Roar is just the same as this site; lots of bloviation, but under a slightly more legit banner.


Fair enough, but what do you actually think of the points/arguments made in the article?


Okay. Responding to the article specifically, then generally:

Quote:
However one of Silvagni’s most critical errors during this rebuild is that he has not just failed to bring in valuable veterans to provide experience and mentoring for his fresh draftees, but in fact seems not to have bothered seeking them out at all.

Luke Hodge’s impact at Brisbane is the greatest recent example of this, but it’s a long-proven principle. Consider also the value GWS have found in bringing in the likes of Shane Mumford and Steve Johnson, or the impact Daniel Cross had when brought across to Melbourne.

Last year would have been the perfect time for Carlton to aggressively pursue someone like Jarrad McVeigh or Paul Puopolo – players who have already tasted premiership success and might see the appeal in a generous pay packet and the chance to mentor young players, potentially transitioning into coaching thereafter.

Instead the Blues directed all their energy to sending private jets to Dylan Shiel, when the chances of a highly sought-after prime age midfielder wanting to join the two-win wooden spooners were surely never all that realistic.


No one knows who we chatted to last year, especially not this chap.
Neither Puopolo nor McVeigh have changed clubs, so why are they listed as potential options? You could argue that we 'missed out' on them if they moved, but they didn't.
Cross is a good egg, who played some solid football for Melbourne and is now an assistant coach. We have Brent Stanton doing much the same role for us, but without the 30-odd games in our jumper.
Mumford is a role-model? How? Also, GWS recruited Mumford for the now, not as some wily veteran to teach the kids. He broke his foot and retired and then took up a coaching position and then came back because their ruck stocks suck (I'm skipping the part where he was suspended for taking drugs when he was a player). I'm also not convinced Stevie J was recruited as a role model.
We did pursue Shiel but it wasn't at the expense of all other options, was it? We still made other trades, yes? And how is it a bad idea to try and recruit a talented player who suits our age profile?

It's far too early to judge the Stocker trade, so bringing it up later in the article is pointless.
Same with McGovern and (honestly) same with Marchbank.
We partially traded Tuohy because he had value and we had a few players to cover his position (sadly, Doch did his knee - twice).

Should the President examine his positon? Yes.

Look, as I said; no disrespect, but this article is just the same shit we're been hashing for days and The Roar is just talk-back for people who can read.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:55 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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grrofunger wrote:
Ockham's Razor wrote:
MPH78 wrote:
Appreciate the wishes everyone, cheers.

Hard not to wonder what has broken down internally over the last month or so. It was rather stark.

If possible, would love OR or any other insider to shed some further light on this please?


The turning point was the player only meeting post GWS.

A major discussion point was that coaching was too prescriptive and players felt they were being over coached. A few openly said how they really felt.

BB hadn't lost the players at that stage but they were questioning the approach. Some could clearly see the end of their AFL career being a miserable slog if things continued on same path.

Many players felt they weren't able to play with any freedom & they expressed this.

No surprise at all that one of them enthusiastically embraced the charity event a few days later.

Interesting response / reaction to a separate senior player by BB shortly after that.

Also BB wasn't pleased with how the start of this meeting was portrayed in the media.

Need to reiterate that BB hadn't lost the players, but signs were developing.


*cough* Kade Simpson *cough*
So was this the 'managed' excuse.... THAT is a worry... No wonder it's turned out this way.


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