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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:56 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Donstuie wrote:
Has anyone mentioned “3 from 35” or “no scores over 100 in...” in the last 30 minutes?


Just checking


The best part about this nonsense stat that the media and some supporters have clung onto is, it's meaningless unless you want to take down the coach.
3 from 35, why 35? It's not a full season, not since our last win, not even this year and last years wins (or lack of in our case).

It's because it sounds better to keep propelling the negativity.

How about some facts, like:
We have only won 8 from 48 (2017 - 6, 2018 - 2, 2019 - 0) and we all know why 2018 was a bad year, well most of us anyway.
or our last win was 9 games ago?

For the Hardwick fans.
Hardwick took over Richmond in 2010 after they had added most of their talent and the team stats were:
Average age 22.8 years
Experience 47.4 games
2 x 200+ gamers
6 x 100+ gamers
and they were 0-9 to start the year.

As a reference point this year we are:
Average age 23.5 years
Experience 53.3 games
1 x 300+ gamer
2 x 200+ gamers
5 x 100+ gamers
and we are currently 0-4 to start the year.

If you want to compare apples then this year should be the one and not after 4 rounds.


Last edited by Sidefx on Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:59 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Adam Chatfield wrote:
AIRCAV wrote:
We’ve got to that point I fear where many on this board have so much riding on the “Bolts has to go” that they now want us to fail, and even if he does succeed, they will never be satisfied.


100% no here. I want us to win and succeed.

The Gold Coast loss is one that I am glad has put some heat on.

From here on we can see if it galvanized the group or if we drop our bundle.

If we start becoming a 2018 version of the side we will know the players aren’t playing for Bolts.

I find that unlikely though, too many individuals are shaping for close to career best seasons (Jones, Weitering, Cripps, Walsh, McKay) for us to fall to complete crap, 3 of those would be in AA calculations.

Side needs to learn how to win, and continue to play together.

Keep majority of our side fit (injuries we have had have been annoying but not as bad as last year by any means) there should be a game soon where it will click


:thumbsup:

Let's hope that is this week.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:03 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Nothing will happen this year so just relax and ride it out.

We will either improve significantly and get some wins or we won't and he will sacked at the end of the year.

I honestly think we could easily win at least 5 of our next 10

We could very well be back ahead of St Kilda, Brisbane, Gold Coast etc halfway through the year.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:25 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Sydney Blue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Sin City wrote:
I don't mind his work this year. Before the weekend I would've said he needs to pay more attention to shutting the opposition down but it looked like he rectified that.

The midfield is doing a much better job this year in terms of clearances, contested ball, inside 50s and the defence is doing a brilliant job both as a unit and some great individual performances. The opposition scores are way down on last year.

The forward line isn't functioning that well, it does need some quality added to it but the coach needs to find a way to make it less crowded too. Collingwood beat the Bulldogs last weekend almost entirely due to having an open forward line compared to the dogs crowded forward line.

Based on what I've seen the wins will come, but not as soon as we'd all like. We're being brought undone by players making young team mistakes and a poorly functioning forward line but we've also been in winning positions in our last three games. Three out of four games where we were a genuine chance to win is a big step up from last year.

If you can hang in for two more years of physical development which most of the core still need and some ironing out of a few kinks we'll be blowing teams like we've played over the last three weeks out of the water.


it's funny you mention this. I remember at the end of the 2017 season everyone was having a whinge about our lack of attack and the club changed to a more attacking game style. But then we had all of those injuries and Gibbs leaving which totally ruined our experience in the team and all the wingers came out saying we needed to become defensive like 2017 because of the floggings. Now we are playing a more defensive game style again which is keeping us in the games but a lot of people are now complaining about not scoring over 100pts, yet there is a lot of teams this year that haven't either (only 2 last round). We do have an impressive forward line so if they can lead properly and get the right delivery we should be starting to win some. If you're confused by the above than I am too.

Development takes time but I guess people want changes and results now, even it's at the detriment of the club with coaching changes.

:thumbsup:
It's all about development not about wins or losses but yet the loss on the weekend has ripped the heart out of the club and everyone is guttered.
Reality came home to roost and the club is in crisis mode. They have known it for a while and were hoping to smooth over the cracks and hope wins would come.
Gold Coast were abysmal on Sunday it was one of the worst performances by the club this year they were just plain terrible and we lost to them.

Bolton and the current coaching staff will never turn this around. They might snag a freakish win over a team that has had a bout of gastro during the week but that will be it.

Best to cut and run before we waste the talent we have available.

Those of you who are still putting your faith in this rebuild go watch the game again but watch Gold coast not Carlton you will see how bad they were

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


Ah yes, that old chestnut...did the side win cause they were good or cause the losing side were bad OR did a side win cause they were no good but the losing side were more no-gooder

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:34 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Adam Chatfield wrote:
The Gold Coast loss is one that I am glad has put some heat on.

From here on we can see if it galvanized the group or if we drop our bundle.

This I agree with, and it could be the only positive to come out of Sunday.

The reactions and statements from some of the playing group at least give the impression that they’re ready to take ownership.

Either way, last Sunday has to be a turning point.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:35 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Sin City wrote:
I don't mind his work this year. Before the weekend I would've said he needs to pay more attention to shutting the opposition down but it looked like he rectified that.

The midfield is doing a much better job this year in terms of clearances, contested ball, inside 50s and the defence is doing a brilliant job both as a unit and some great individual performances. The opposition scores are way down on last year.

The forward line isn't functioning that well, it does need some quality added to it but the coach needs to find a way to make it less crowded too. Collingwood beat the Bulldogs last weekend almost entirely due to having an open forward line compared to the dogs crowded forward line.

Based on what I've seen the wins will come, but not as soon as we'd all like. We're being brought undone by players making young team mistakes and a poorly functioning forward line but we've also been in winning positions in our last three games. Three out of four games where we were a genuine chance to win is a big step up from last year.

If you can hang in for two more years of physical development which most of the core still need and some ironing out of a few kinks we'll be blowing teams like we've played over the last three weeks out of the water.


it's funny you mention this. I remember at the end of the 2017 season everyone was having a whinge about our lack of attack and the club changed to a more attacking game style. But then we had all of those injuries and Gibbs leaving which totally ruined our experience in the team and all the wingers came out saying we needed to become defensive like 2017 because of the floggings. Now we are playing a more defensive game style again which is keeping us in the games but a lot of people are now complaining about not scoring over 100pts, yet there is a lot of teams this year that haven't either (only 2 last round). We do have an impressive forward line so if they can lead properly and get the right delivery we should be starting to win some. If you're confused by the above than I am too.

Development takes time but I guess people want changes and results now, even it's at the detriment of the club with coaching changes.

:thumbsup:
It's all about development not about wins or losses but yet the loss on the weekend has ripped the heart out of the club and everyone is guttered.
Reality came home to roost and the club is in crisis mode. They have known it for a while and were hoping to smooth over the cracks and hope wins would come.
Gold Coast were abysmal on Sunday it was one of the worst performances by the club this year they were just plain terrible and we lost to them.

Bolton and the current coaching staff will never turn this around. They might snag a freakish win over a team that has had a bout of gastro during the week but that will be it.

Best to cut and run before we waste the talent we have available.

Those of you who are still putting your faith in this rebuild go watch the game again but watch Gold coast not Carlton you will see how bad they were

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


Hey Sydney,

The club is not in crisis mode as you have stated. This may not suit your argument but the reality is you are incorrect.

I agree Gold Coast were poor.

The Club is well aware of where we are at, nobody is papering over cracks.

Also, nobody is wetting the bed or panicking, they leave that to others who are much more experienced. :wink:

There will be no change during the season.

As with all seasons there will be a full review after 22 games.

Cheers

OR

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:48 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Adam Chatfield wrote:
the gravity of the task we are undertaking as a club.

We wanted a total rebuild and that’s what we are getting. It’s being done at a time where it’s harder than any other time since the draft began


I’ve said it a few times. If this comes off and we win a premiership it will be the greatest list build of the modern era. Our list was dog shit. Hence the huge turnover.

We had few assets. We sold whatever we could for picks. We needed to nail the majority of those picks to get a critical mass core of young talent. What we kept in our old stagers are just nowhere near, in terms of quality, any other list. Not a single a-grade player over 23 and certainly not Hodge-like leaders for the younger players. Drafting has been very good. Recruitment of mature players abysmal.

But we are getting closer. Inch by inch. Our 4th year players showing where Dow and O’Brien can be in two years. They’re both still kids.

Coach has his issues but we finally have an injury list that doesn’t take up two pages so we will be able to see what he can do over the next 14 plus weeks and based on a huge list turn over and last years diabolical injury list and mismanagement should be given the time to start winning games.

Defending has been excellent, midfield with nothing but youngsters respectable and forward line and forward entries a mess. Nothing insurmountable like I saw last year to suggest winning is impossible.

I agree with others. A little bit of heat is good for this group. I think it will harden them not soften them. Very keen to see that outcome on Sunday.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:09 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Donstuie wrote:
Has anyone mentioned “3 from 35” or “no scores over 100 in...” in the last 30 minutes?


Just checking



people mention it bcos it's a historically bad run. no afl team has ever been this bad. a more telling stat than the 100pts is this one: in this losing streak of 3 from 35 games, 18 times we've failed to kick 80 points. 80 points!



... then the cfc backroom compound supporter angst (and give the media all the ammo they need for an all out assault) by doubling down and trading our number 1 pick bcos by their projections this season we're going to climb the ladder. with that move they built an expectation, and with each passing loss this season, that expectation becomes a pressure cooker.





fwiw i'm in the camp that we'll turn this around this season and get some good wins. tho, quite possibly we'll still finish last, as the bottom 4 from last year have improved at a rate that i'm not sure we can keep up with, and of the current bottom 4, i expect them to get it together and climb the ladder.

so the ladder would be really bunched with 6 or 7 teams all vying for 8th, then a large drop off back to us in last. we're already 3 wins behind saints, suns and lions ... who i expect to come back to the pack.


if we get the spoon, i can't imagine bolton keeps his job.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:41 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Sidefx wrote:
I can see where you are coming from but I don't necessarily agree with you. As we seen on the weekend with the Pies and the Dogs, it's pretty easy for teams to make each other look bad. We just let this one slip at the eleventh hour. The response from the playing group this week will really show how affected they are by the loss as well as their faith in the coaches, this will speak the truth on the clubs unity more than anything. Hopefully this is the game that turns us around as a club, win or lose.

But as supporters we have a duty of loyalty to back the club in, especially with what we have been through and the 'real' stage we are at in our rebuild. And not to be the cause or the reason the media gets to rip shreds off us, deserved or not. Otherwise instead of us having a good development year we will have to start this process again next year with someone new, a new game plan for the players to learn (the ones that stay) and not to mention not being able to attract top talent due to the instability we've created, again.


I don't think that this applies to us as usually this type of statement is made towards players that are not really putting in maximum effort. i,e Essendon*, Melbourne, Adelaide this season.

Does anyone believe that our players are not putting in maximum effort?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:37 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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they're putting in the effort. i'm not sure anyone can question their effort? they're just not executing.

or/ also ... maybe the gameplan and strategies in place to succeed aren't working?



We are really approaching that territory of: Knowing the difference between being patient and wasting our time.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:09 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Braithy wrote:
they're putting in the effort. i'm not sure anyone can question their effort? they're just not executing.

or/ also ... maybe the gameplan and strategies in place to succeed aren't working?



We are really approaching that territory of: Knowing the difference between being patient and wasting our time.


My post was in relation to response from players and whether they are playing for the coach


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:00 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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yeah, i know. i was just weighing in.

i think all the players are playing for bolton and trying their arses off. the reason we're losing is at times they're not executing, and possibly at at times the gameplan isn't up to it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:47 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Braithy wrote:
yeah, i know. i was just weighing in.

i think all the players are playing for bolton and trying their arses off. the reason we're losing is at times they're not executing, and possibly at at times the gameplan isn't up to it.


That's the biggest issue, we can only judge the game plan when the players are executing it.

My biggest issue is that our forward line players don't appear to have clearly defined roles and are left to play on instinct, I would have thought that our tall should have been structured up so that McGovern plays out of the square with Harry playing 20 mt in front leading to the left or right depending on the play and our smalls assigned to either player.

Charlie and Casboult should be roaming up each wing to provide link up and compete for a dump kick from the backline if needed.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:34 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Seriously, who gives a @#$%&! about the 100 point barrier?
6 of the 9 games last week were won by teams scoring less than 80 points! Only 1 team out of 18 kicked more than 100 points.
We've have enough to focus on as club without bitching about the last time we kicked more than 100 points. Let's just get everything right and worry about wins without looking for peripheral things to whinge about.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:53 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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That article by Tom Morris yesterday looked believable to me.

It looked very much like a strategic leak and shot across the Bolton bow.

One thing I'm sure of - and very comfortable with - is the roles of Walls and Russell. They won't let a bad situation fester too long this time.

That article might be exactly what needed to happen.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:13 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Blue Vain wrote:
Seriously, who gives a @#$%&! about the 100 point barrier?
6 of the 9 games last week were won by teams scoring less than 80 points! Only 1 team out of 18 kicked more than 100 points.
We've have enough to focus on as club without bitching about the last time we kicked more than 100 points. Let's just get everything right and worry about wins without looking for peripheral things to whinge about.



100% lets win by whatever means necessary and keep winning,, before we groan about the way that we're winning.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:39 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Rexy wrote:
That article by Tom Morris yesterday looked believable to me.

It looked very much like a strategic leak and shot across the Bolton bow.

One thing I'm sure of - and very comfortable with - is the roles of Walls and Russell. They won't let a bad situation fester too long this time.

That article might be exactly what needed to happen.


If you saw the smug face and how quickly Gerrard moved on, tells you that they both knew it was BS and Healy does not want this sh!t stain of a journalist degrading his show.

DON'T GET SUCKED IN


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:41 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Steve_C7 wrote:
Rexy wrote:
That article by Tom Morris yesterday looked believable to me.

It looked very much like a strategic leak and shot across the Bolton bow.

One thing I'm sure of - and very comfortable with - is the roles of Walls and Russell. They won't let a bad situation fester too long this time.

That article might be exactly what needed to happen.


If you saw the smug face and how quickly Gerrard moved on, tells you that they both knew it was BS and Healy does not want this sh!t stain of a journalist degrading his show.

DON'T GET SUCKED IN


Maybe they all knew this was a strategic leak.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:42 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Braithy wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Seriously, who gives a @#$%&! about the 100 point barrier?
6 of the 9 games last week were won by teams scoring less than 80 points! Only 1 team out of 18 kicked more than 100 points.
We've have enough to focus on as club without bitching about the last time we kicked more than 100 points. Let's just get everything right and worry about wins without looking for peripheral things to whinge about.



100% lets win by whatever means necessary and keep winning,, before we groan about the way that we're winning.


Fair enough, but considering the structure of our rebuild the forward line was always going to be the last to click. I think it's fair to say that we are defensively pretty good, OK in midfield and very much a work in progress forward.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:39 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher

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Reckon what Morris wrote was spot on, but don't think it was in any way prejudicial to Bolton. He should know he needs to change to survive, and if he didn't know before, he does know. Uncle


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