Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Sat Apr 27, 2024 8:22 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6991 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175 ... 350  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:23 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 2289
Location: Geelong
Braithy wrote:
Heavs wrote:
The losses don't look bad as stats but they fail the eye test pretty bad. I reckon there have been 4 games we've realistically been 'in' after 1/4 time this year.

But seriously, was anyone expecting us to make the 8 or win the flag this year? I wasn't. I'm just hopeful we are building some solid foundations rather than chasing cheap sugar hits. Changing what we're doing now would be silly - we'd just have to appoint a new coach who would want 'his list', would turn over 40 odd players and we'd go through the same shit. The folk in charge bought the vision, now we have to stay the course and trust the process.



i think we wanted to be on an upward trajectory. Win a game or two more than last season, and totally apply ourselves for each and every game. this year the effort has been lacking.

Bolton has failed in that regard.


And bringing in a new coach doesn't mean we're back at ground zero. there is plenty of young players here to work with, and there's plenty of deadwood to clear out - around half the list.

there'd be a few good coaches around that would love to sink their teeth into what we have here should we can bolton.


If we're not going to factor injuries into football results then the Adelaide coach should be in a lot of trouble.
His team has fallen far shorter of expectations than Carlton.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:11 am 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 4833
adelaide are in heaps of trouble. half their list are disillusioned with the club over that pre season mob who took them over. now that adelaide has broken that contract, maybe the players will get on board.

just to reiterate; the injury excuse will effect the win/ loss column. but it should have no effect on effort. blokes running and tackling and busting a gut for the jersey. that element has been totally void this season and has been a sharp dropoff from last season.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:35 am 
Offline
formerly King Kenny
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 20076
Braithy wrote:
adelaide are in heaps of trouble. half their list are disillusioned with the club over that pre season mob who took them over. now that adelaide has broken that contract, maybe the players will get on board.

just to reiterate; the injury excuse will effect the win/ loss column. but it should have no effect on effort. blokes running and tackling and busting a gut for the jersey. that element has been totally void this season and has been a sharp dropoff from last season.


Queue Tom Lynch signing for 3 more years today.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:44 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10326
Location: Coburg
totally void this season - a total absence of effort in all games so far!

Perhaps there are other factors?

Perhaps there has been effort but not sustained week in week out, game in game out - of course that may imply there are other factors in play besides a total absence of effort.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:34 am 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 4833
it's funny how in the only interview sos has given this year, he said our effort this year has been unacceptable. but dannyboy knows more than sos, apparently.


the game yesterday was a great example. people will accept a loss if we're giving everything. so far this year we've given everything for a quarter here and there and against the bombers and pies.

the test now for bolton is to get that effort for every game.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:48 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10326
Location: Coburg
Sos would agree with me with regards to your post.

did Sos say there had been no effort? None at all?

No - he said the effort had been unacceptable - I'll accept that, not someone typing 'totally void of effort' - crap like that needs to be called out every time it is typed.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:18 am 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:42 pm
Posts: 4833
wow, just wow.

i'm not sure how anyone can sugarcoat the crap we've served up this year. but here you are.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:14 am 
Offline
Bob Chitty

Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:40 pm
Posts: 842
i think SOS was referring to the effort in the 1st half against Freo ... its a long bow to stretch to suggest he was referring to the entire season ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:31 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10326
Location: Coburg
I am happy to point out the crap, also happy to accept that everything that we have dished up has not been crap. You on the other hand are black and white. It is this. It is not that. I prefer a little more nuance.

I had hoped for more wins - but my side (once Doc went down) had Pickett playing, Marchbank playing, Williamson playing, Bryne playing, Macreadie for a few games, Kennedy playing, Lang playing, Murphy playing, Garlett playing, ASOS playing, and Shaw playing - and with all that I still only expected around 4 wins (though I admit I hoped for 8).

I expected a bigger year of Weits and I hoped Mckay might play more, I hoped Cunners would play more..and still 4 wins (hoping for 8, and I thought Nth would crash and prayed the Filth would not get their act together - they did))

Most of those players mentioned above have been injured - Shaw has not really delivered but as a rookie I accepted the gamble, same with Garlett as such a late round pick. O'Shea was never a good pick up for mine but I accepted the argument perhaps it had more to do with the VFL's ability to attract talent than O'Shea per se (after all I really do not know what is thought/said behind the doors of Carlton, not even by SOS - when speaking privately).

Let's be clear -the list this year is again different to last year - it has more talent at the bottom and less at the top so it was always going to be a step back.

So am I pissed off with Bolts? - no. I see the glimmers. I see Curnow and Fisher and Dow as real potential superstars - 3 to add to Cripps and Doc.

I see Doc, Weitering, Marchbank and Plowman as mainstays of the backline for years to come.

I still think McKay will be a ripper and I have hopes for De Koning (could be a "special" talent) and Schuie,

Midfield of Cripps, Fisher, Dow, SPS, Kennedy, O'Brien, Pickett, Curnows (I still hope Charlie plays some time in their) and perhaps SOS - plus a further two or three midfielders this year please.

And yes, I can see what we are putting together here, a list of real depth - but it takes time. I do not want the club to succumb (yet again) to those voices who can't see the forest for the trees. I want it to hold its nerve for a full 5 years and then assess - yes five years because the picture will become much clearer in 5 years (this year and 2 more - i can hear your screams from here) and I'd not risk any change to the strategy before then.

You, and others bang on about Bolts, but Bolts is just one of the trees, as is SOS, as is Cripps, and Dow and a host of others.

When I step back and look at what is being put together here I am genuinely excited by a list that, finally, will have depth, will have talent, will challenge because it will be able to take injuries, and suspensions and the like... the adversities of sport. We have not had a list like that since Parkin coached!

Will Bolts take us all the way?
Seriously, who the @#$%&! knows. Not you. Not me. None of us.

But he is helping to put together a strong bunch of kids who do seem to play for each other, who seem to enjoy the team being assembled - (because all of the kids report that is how they feel and so far that's about all we have to go on). So yes, Bolts gets a big tick from me.

If we gave in to the doomsayers, then Old Carlton would be back, Old Carlton would sack Bolts, (probably SOS as well) find an old coach who was once great, plonk them in and watch another list get torn apart. If that happens it will because too many so called supporters want the instant fix and the days of instant fixes are so far gone I doubt anyone under 40 can remember them! I do not want a return to that.

I want this club to build such a @#$%&! great list that in about 10 years time everyone will point at Carlton and say, 'that is how you build a list!"

How long has it been since anyone pointed at us with anything but ridicule and sniggers? Follow the doomsayers and that will continue for at least another 10 years!

So for me its about sucking up the hurt - and yes it hurts, yesterday hurt, Freo hurt - it all @#$%&! hurts, but so what? As Seneca mused

Never give in to adversity

Don’t dare trust prosperity.

The blow you’ve anticipated

Will do the least harm.

We are learning again to take the blows, something we tried to avoid for too many years. That was the real lesson of Elliott - he wanted to avoid all blows...it was his great weakness.

I want us to take the blows, to stick to the plan, to build this awesome list - and if you can't see the list being built then I suggest just watch another sport for about two more years and then come back to us - I want us to do it well, not in a hurry, not in a panic, or succumbing to the loudest, gloomiest voices, but well. A plan developed, executed and assessed properly along the way.

2 more years of this pain still to come by my reckoning, 2 more years of drafting, trading and assembling...I can wait. After all there is only waiting, doing and waiting again, so we might as well learn to do the waiting as well as we once did the doing.

Sorry for the rant but Braithy, I love your passion but fear you, like others who are lost in the pain, will encourage this club to do what is does best - avoid the pain for short term gain - and that is always gain consisting of fool's gold.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Last edited by dannyboy on Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:02 am 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:39 am
Posts: 29843
Location: riding shotgun on Agros Karma Train
wonderful summation

_________________
Between our dreams and actions lies this world


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:22 am 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 23865
Yes...very nice post DB.
ps. Who needs wimbledon

_________________
That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:55 am 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 3295
Think of it like this:

GWS came into the competition with a bunch of talented young players supported by some veterans.

In 2012 they won 2 games. Their average losing margin was about 10 goals.
In 2013 they won 1 game. Their average losing margin was about 8 goals.
In 2014 they won 6 games. Their average losing margin was about 5 goals.
In 2015 they won 11 games. Their average losing margin was about 4 goals.
In 2016 they won 16 and made a prelim. Their average losing margin was about 3 goals.
In 2017 they won 14 (and drew 2) and made a prelim. Their average losing margin was about 4 goals.

We have essentially started again, but without the draft concessions. We currently have a talented core of youngsters with some veterans a few journeymen. We're three years into the Bolton-era rebuild.

You can see where I'm going with this, yes?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:06 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:00 am
Posts: 7811
Location: canberra
bluechampion wrote:
Think of it like this:

GWS came into the competition with a bunch of talented young players supported by some veterans.

In 2012 they won 2 games. Their average losing margin was about 10 goals.
In 2013 they won 1 game. Their average losing margin was about 8 goals.
In 2014 they won 6 games. Their average losing margin was about 5 goals.
In 2015 they won 11 games. Their average losing margin was about 4 goals.
In 2016 they won 16 and made a prelim. Their average losing margin was about 3 goals.
In 2017 they won 14 (and drew 2) and made a prelim. Their average losing margin was about 4 goals.

We have essentially started again, but without the draft concessions. We currently have a talented core of youngsters with some veterans a few journeymen. We're three years into the Bolton-era rebuild.


You can see where I'm going with this, yes?


Spot on. There is no mystery about what is happening at the moment. Fully expected.

_________________
I need some new conspiracy theories; all my others have come true.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:09 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 17263
Location: threeohfivethree
bluechampion wrote:
Think of it like this:

GWS came into the competition with a bunch of talented young players supported by some veterans.

In 2012 they won 2 games. Their average losing margin was about 10 goals.
In 2013 they won 1 game. Their average losing margin was about 8 goals.
In 2014 they won 6 games. Their average losing margin was about 5 goals.
In 2015 they won 11 games. Their average losing margin was about 4 goals.
In 2016 they won 16 and made a prelim. Their average losing margin was about 3 goals.
In 2017 they won 14 (and drew 2) and made a prelim. Their average losing margin was about 4 goals.

We have essentially started again, but without the draft concessions. We currently have a talented core of youngsters with some veterans a few journeymen. We're three years into the Bolton-era rebuild.

You can see where I'm going with this, yes?


That we’ll miss the finals in the seventh year of our rebuild?

_________________
"Liberals feel unworthy of their possessions. Conservatives feel they deserve everything they've stolen."

Mort Sahl


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:13 am 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 3295
GWS wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
Think of it like this:

GWS came into the competition with a bunch of talented young players supported by some veterans.

In 2012 they won 2 games. Their average losing margin was about 10 goals.
In 2013 they won 1 game. Their average losing margin was about 8 goals.
In 2014 they won 6 games. Their average losing margin was about 5 goals.
In 2015 they won 11 games. Their average losing margin was about 4 goals.
In 2016 they won 16 and made a prelim. Their average losing margin was about 3 goals.
In 2017 they won 14 (and drew 2) and made a prelim. Their average losing margin was about 4 goals.

We have essentially started again, but without the draft concessions. We currently have a talented core of youngsters with some veterans a few journeymen. We're three years into the Bolton-era rebuild.

You can see where I'm going with this, yes?


That we’ll miss the finals in the seventh year of our rebuild?


Exactly. Thank goodness someone can see it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:14 am 
Online
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 20307
Location: North of the border
Old Carlton - wins
New Carlton - Losses

why would anyone be critical of someone wanting the Old Carlton back

Maybe the Old Carlton had it right and the New Carlton has it horribly wrong

We gave Pagan 5 years
we gave Ratten 5 years
We gave Malthouse 3 years
Giving someone time can make matters worse

Jezza had eighteen months first up - did nothing when he came back and club legend booted 76 games 53 wins
Perc 1 year 24 games 17 wins
Parkin 5 years first up and won two flags
Walls 4 years 1 flag and runner up 84 games 55 wins
Nichols had 4 years
Brittain 2 years despite a better win loss ratio than Bolton

But lets give Bolton 5 years and assess


To have a go at someone for wanting the Old back is laughable at best
Unless you find pleasure in losing all the time

Lets just do this because they are doing it over there and it worked for them

Nice summary DB but you can twist any story to suit your argument
remember a lot of those missing player were there last year and we won 6 games

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:31 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 33617
Location: COMFORTABLY DISSATISFIED
I can't even...

_________________
WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:31 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17567
The "old" doesn't exist anymore Sydney. With the "old", we'd buy the best talent around the country.
There was no salary cap, no draft, no TPP, no football department spend cap.

Unfortunately we have to succeed by working the system successfully instead of rorting it. That's what sent our club broke and sent us into this downward spiral. That plus our penchant for taking short cuts at every opportunity. We've been in a shit hole for the majority of this millennium due to our inability to adapt.
Personally, I'm delighted the club has finally decided to attack the problem with hard work, honesty and smart decisions. We've nailed the past 3 drafts as well as anyone IMO.
That will set up our future, not cheating. It will also make the good times more satisfying. If you cant see that and continue to dream of the old days, so be it.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Last edited by Blue Vain on Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:33 am 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:04 pm
Posts: 47388
Location: Prison Island
Blue Vain wrote:
The "old" doesn't exist anymore Sydney. With the "old", we'd buy the best talent around the country.
There was no salary cap, no draft, no TPP, no football department spend cap.

Unfortunately we have to succeed by working the system successfully instead of rorting it. That's what sent our club broke and gave us our first wooden spoon. That plus our penchant for taking short cuts at every opportunity. We've been in a shit hole for the majority of this millennium due to our inability to adapt.
Personally, I'm delighted the club has finally decided to attack the problem with hard work, honesty and smart decisions. We've nailed the past 3 drafts as well as anyone IMO.
That will set up our future, not cheating. It will also make the good times more satisfying. If you cant see that and dream of the old days, so be it.


Exactly, which is why we should be taking the PP

Not due to "pride" is not smart

_________________
*(grow - fun - gah) :fight:

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:33 am 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am
Posts: 28221
Sydney Blue wrote:
Old Carlton - wins
New Carlton - Losses

why would anyone be critical of someone wanting the Old Carlton back

Maybe the Old Carlton had it right and the New Carlton has it horribly wrong

We gave Pagan 5 years
we gave Ratten 5 years
We gave Malthouse 3 years
Giving someone time can make matters worse

Jezza had eighteen months first up - did nothing when he came back and club legend booted 76 games 53 wins
Perc 1 year 24 games 17 wins
Parkin 5 years first up and won two flags
Walls 4 years 1 flag and runner up 84 games 55 wins
Nichols had 4 years
Brittain 2 years despite a better win loss ratio than Bolton

But lets give Bolton 5 years and assess


To have a go at someone for wanting the Old back is laughable at best
Unless you find pleasure in losing all the time

Lets just do this because they are doing it over there and it worked for them

Nice summary DB but you can twist any story to suit your argument
remember a lot of those missing player were there last year and we won 6 games


You could go out and buy players in the old days. Can't do that now Syd.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6991 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175 ... 350  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BluesRockMyWorld, CFC8795, Lucky, Mickstar, windy and 328 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group