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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Robert Walls
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verbs wrote:
Comparing SPS & Fisher's first 20 games disposals and contested possessions, and Dow's games to date, with Gibbs looks pretty good.

Image


LIKE!

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:50 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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That graph didn't play AFL, so I can't respect it.

And, while we're at it, it's not tall enough either.

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:06 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/pre ... 4zgsf.html

Pressure builds on Blues but Bolton safe for 2019
By Jon Pierik
22 May 2018 — 4:58pm

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Chris Judd has declared Brendon Bolton safe for next year but president Mark LoGiudice could face his toughest test yet if the on-field struggles continue.

Premiership coach Robert Walls has questioned the Blues' rebuild, pointing out several of the players the club has brought in were recycled, while losing such talent as Bryce Gibbs, Zach Tuohy and Eddie Betts.

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:06 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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verbs wrote:
Comparing SPS & Fisher's first 20 games disposals and contested possessions, and Dow's games to date, with Gibbs looks pretty good.

Image

What do the horizontal lines represent in numbers terms? 5-10-15?
Interesting comparison but lacks that detail.

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:07 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Effes wrote:
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/pressure-builds-on-blues-but-bolton-safe-for-2019-20180522-p4zgsf.html

Pressure builds on Blues but Bolton safe for 2019
By Jon Pierik
22 May 2018 — 4:58pm

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Chris Judd has declared Brendon Bolton safe for next year but president Mark LoGiudice could face his toughest test yet if the on-field struggles continue.

Premiership coach Robert Walls has questioned the Blues' rebuild, pointing out several of the players the club has brought in were recycled, while losing such talent as Bryce Gibbs, Zach Tuohy and Eddie Betts.

Love Wallsy but Touhy and Betts were BBB.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:56 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Blue Sombrero wrote:
verbs wrote:
Comparing SPS & Fisher's first 20 games disposals and contested possessions, and Dow's games to date, with Gibbs looks pretty good.

Image

What do the horizontal lines represent in numbers terms? 5-10-15?
Interesting comparison but lacks that detail.


The numbers (average) themselves aren't really that important as the hope is all three will progress as good or even better than Gibbs did.

See below.

Image


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:26 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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camelboy wrote:
That graph didn't play AFL, so I can't respect it.

And, while we're at it, it's not tall enough either.


:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:31 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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stats are amazing things, that don't always tell the story.

... like:

Gibbs was playing across the half back line for his first 5 seasons – had he been on the ball, you'd have to imagine his numbers would have literally doubled.
Of our three new kids, Fisher has the worst stats, but he always plays direct with the footy. I'd hazard a guess Fish's metres gained and efficiency is more superior than Dow or SPS.

and, all of this makes me wonder about the development of Gibbs. he wasn't thrown into the middle off the bat into bigger, hardened bodies. Saving those miles in his legs has led to him having an excellent career - longevity wise.

I wonder how much of our kids we're burning out, and as they hit their prime, how oft injured they'll be bcos of it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:32 am 
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formerly BlueRob
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We need a Reset! :razz:

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:43 am 
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Ken Hunter
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so we play the kids across half back and lose by 200 points and no one will question Bolts and the club because we are protecting the miles in their legs...

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:03 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Braithy wrote:
stats are amazing things, that don't always tell the story.

... like:

Gibbs was playing across the half back line for his first 5 seasons – had he been on the ball, you'd have to imagine his numbers would have literally doubled.
Of our three new kids, Fisher has the worst stats, but he always plays direct with the footy. I'd hazard a guess Fish's metres gained and efficiency is more superior than Dow or SPS.

and, all of this makes me wonder about the development of Gibbs. he wasn't thrown into the middle off the bat into bigger, hardened bodies. Saving those miles in his legs has led to him having an excellent career - longevity wise.

I wonder how much of our kids we're burning out, and as they hit their prime, how oft injured they'll be bcos of it.

Just on SPS, on Sunday he broke from the centre and roosted into our forward fifty. There were 3 players in the arc, 3 Melbourne players. Not blaming the kid. WHERE THE **** WERE OUR FORWARDS ? Behind SPS !

What's the game plan again ????

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:16 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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2007 was a slightly different landscape to today but Gibbs played a heap of midfield under Pagan in his first year. And that Carlton side didn't have a Cripps, or Judd, as a primary focus in the middle. Life got a lot easier for Gibbs after he'd played 20 games because Judd came along and Ratten played him (definitely not exclusively) in defence.

Widen the picture a little :grin: :grin: :grin:

Image


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:24 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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sure goes to show what a beast cripps is.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:26 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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dannyboy wrote:
so we play the kids across half back and lose by 200 points and no one will question Bolts and the club because we are protecting the miles in their legs...



no. just goes to show how extreme our rebuild is, and the possible consequence of not leaving the kids some bigger bodies to have around them. and the whole concept of drafting nothing but mids the next couple of drafts is more of the same. exposing young bodies too early.


time will tell if we went too far in our list turnover, but the signs and results this season are leaning towards that.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:27 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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That's why I included him. He's on a different scale all together. Clayton Oliver is not far behind him. In Cripps' third game he only had 18% time on ground.


Last edited by verbs on Wed May 23, 2018 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:28 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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also on that topic. who is our strength and conditioning coach? can we have a new one, please?

one with a commitment to a weights regime and a better record of injury prevention.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:05 am 
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Harry Vallence
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First real rebuild, I don’t really understand what this means as an excuse. At times I think the club is unaware every team participates in the draft.
Bolton and his team turn the list over, and then suggest we must expect (but not accept) these losses, as we have no 'cohesion'.
So far in his time we have 'recycled' Sumner, Gorringe, Palmer, Phillips, Smedts, Lobbe, A.Silvagni, Mullet, O'Shea, Shaw, Kerridge, Lamb, Pickett, Garlett?
(I'd consider these players maybes at this stage: Plowman, Marchbank, Lang and Kennedy)
We ‘attracted’ Judd and paid handsomely for it, however aside of him I can’t see much difference to what we have done for the past 10+ years. Same disappointing early picks, same so-so development of existing players, same senior players leaving. Rinse, repeat.
I really hope gifting games into Dow and O'Brien works better than it has for Samo and Jacob, because I assume this 'rebuild' strategy was all about the prized first rounders and their development.
The major concern is at what point do we actually start saying Bolton who may be a great communicator, or teacher or whatever, can't actually coach on a match day. The guy has a 27% win ratio, I know things were different but for some sense of that stat, Wayne Brittain had 39%.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:10 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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verbs wrote:
2007 was a slightly different landscape to today but Gibbs played a heap of midfield under Pagan in his first year. And that Carlton side didn't have a Cripps, or Judd, as a primary focus in the middle. Life got a lot easier for Gibbs after he'd played 20 games because Judd came along and Ratten played him (definitely not exclusively) in defence.

Widen the picture a little :grin: :grin: :grin:

Image

Now that's a graph.
Maths pedants like me need the information on the left and along the bottom if it's relevant.
Thanks.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:47 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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The Duke wrote:
We complain that our mid-20s players aren't good enough and that's the main reason we're shit. Let's look at the 23-26 year olds.

Docherty - recruited by MM
Cripps - Recruited by MM
Byrne - MM
Plowman - Bolton
Shaw - Bolton
Phillips - Bolton
Lamb - Bolton
Kerridge - Bolton
Mullet - Bolton
Oshea - Bolton

What's the point of a list re-build that needs re-building 3 years later?


2 points:

1: The problem with the MM era isn’t the 2 stars you’ve listed, it’s the 15 other blokes brought into the club who weren’t up to the standard and had to be moved on.

2: I have real doubts on the recruitment of Shaw and O’Shea, but the rest are necessary. We traded out our proven mid-tier players and attacked the draft with the picks we received in return. We then had no mid-tier players left on the list and had to fill those gaps on the cheap (not giving up valuable picks we could invest in youth). That’s led to a weak group of players in that age bracket and will only be properly rectified with time.

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:41 pm 
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John Nicholls
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cecil89 wrote:
The Duke wrote:
We complain that our mid-20s players aren't good enough and that's the main reason we're shit. Let's look at the 23-26 year olds.

Docherty - recruited by MM
Cripps - Recruited by MM
Byrne - MM
Plowman - Bolton
Shaw - Bolton
Phillips - Bolton
Lamb - Bolton
Kerridge - Bolton
Mullet - Bolton
Oshea - Bolton

What's the point of a list re-build that needs re-building 3 years later?


2 points:

1: The problem with the MM era isn’t the 2 stars you’ve listed, it’s the 15 other blokes brought into the club who weren’t up to the standard and had to be moved on.

2: I have real doubts on the recruitment of Shaw and O’Shea, but the rest are necessary. We traded out our proven mid-tier players and attacked the draft with the picks we received in return. We then had no mid-tier players left on the list and had to fill those gaps on the cheap (not giving up valuable picks we could invest in youth). That’s led to a weak group of players in that age bracket and will only be properly rectified with time.


Correct. This year we can go for experienced strong bodied mid fielders.

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