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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:43 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Blue Vain wrote:
OK, now that we've agreed that your comments about Richmond and the Bulldogs are wrong, I'll follow you down the next tangent.
Who taught the Bulldogs or Tigers how to win? Beverage was a rookie coach, what group of premiership players did he have at his disposal teaching his players how to win?
How many premiership players did Richmond have?

You carry on like Bolton had a choice. Do you believe he had the chance to be successful or play finals footy but instead he chose to head to the bottom?
He took on a wooden spoon team. A team with 4 wins that lost 6 of its last 7 games by an average margin of 70 points. Those teams included luminaries like Jason Tutt, Matthew Dick, Andrejs Everitt, Matthew Watson. Mark Whiley, Cameron Wood, Clem Smith, Brad Walsh etc etc etc.

What would be your course of action? Dont just be critical. We all know you can do that. Instead of turning over the list and rebuilding, what would be your solution?
That list also contained gower gibbs Holman and Touhy



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:49 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Blue Vain wrote:
Who is comparing different eras?
Syd, he's comparing our history which was mostly pre salary cap and draft

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:51 am 
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Robert Walls

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CarltonClem wrote:
I’ve said this before.

We are GWS. They were poor for 4 years. And look where they are now.

Most of this site is after instant gratification. Much like Australian society generally. No wonder Australian governments are populist in nature and submit to the whims of people who only think short term.


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Party B promises you $1.10

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:52 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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The Duke wrote:
There's a tipping point where the losing becomes debilitating on the group and they lose all confidence and ability to win. I believe we're at that point now.

Two years ago we were flying. We won some big games mid-season and looked great. The players had belief in themselves and the coach. I know a few players are missing from that team, but we've replaced them with quality youth - just like we saw last night.....from the Dogs.

The difference with them is they play with belief.


Were the Dogs playing with belief last week when they lost by 9 goals? What about Round 1 when they lost by 82 points?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:52 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Blue Vain wrote:
What course of action would you prefer Bolton head down?

What should Bolton have done differently?



i don't believe we should be talking about bolton here in this instance. because he never should have been appointed head coach.

zero days in the afl as a player; is a sticking point i cannot get past. how can you teach kids to win and to 'stick fat', when you've never actually done that for yourself?


... and if people think that doesn't enter these kids heads at some point, you are terribly naive or haven't played.

bolton is an excellent communicator, and motivator. but he's not a gameday coach and he doesn't warrant respect from the group bcos he hasn't been there and done that.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:58 am 
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Robert Walls

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Sydney Blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Not at all.
What I'm highlighting is the fact your statements aren't true.
Its a pattern of late. You make statements. They're shown to be incorrect and you divert off in another direction taking zero responsibility for your statements.

You said
Quote:
There is a reason we never rebuilt at Carlton and that's because once you head to the bottom it's almost impossible to get away from the bottom.


I'm simply highlighting that last years premier has spent plenty of time at the bottom the past 15 years.
Your ascertions aren't correct.
Dogs won a flag and have headed south a year later to wait another 60 odd years to win another.
Richmond won last year are looking good this year because they suddenly believe themselves but waited 37 years

Tell me who is going to teach these kids how to win.

AFL history shows that you go to the bottom and stay there a while it is a long long way to the top



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Seriously, do you have any emotional intelligence?
You are being ridiculed by all and sundry on this site and continue to defend like a prisoner on death row at 11:59pm

Yes, I'm pissed off as well and yes, I'm concerned about this year and the quality of players we've brought in and maybe I'm getting a bit shaky about Bolton's capacity but FFS, where do you get off wasting space with extrapolative bombast like the one I highlighted above?

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Last edited by 99prelim on Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:00 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Sydney Blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
OK, now that we've agreed that your comments about Richmond and the Bulldogs are wrong, I'll follow you down the next tangent.
Who taught the Bulldogs or Tigers how to win? Beverage was a rookie coach, what group of premiership players did he have at his disposal teaching his players how to win?
How many premiership players did Richmond have?

You carry on like Bolton had a choice. Do you believe he had the chance to be successful or play finals footy but instead he chose to head to the bottom?
He took on a wooden spoon team. A team with 4 wins that lost 6 of its last 7 games by an average margin of 70 points. Those teams included luminaries like Jason Tutt, Matthew Dick, Andrejs Everitt, Matthew Watson. Mark Whiley, Cameron Wood, Clem Smith, Brad Walsh etc etc etc.

What would be your course of action? Dont just be critical. We all know you can do that. Instead of turning over the list and rebuilding, what would be your solution?
Ratten took arguably a worst group and had them playing finals in 2 years

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Didn't build any foundations. Peaked as an Elimination Final side. Who wants to come 8th?

As for a worse group?
Players that had played 70+ games from 2009.

Judd
Stevens
Fevola
Houlihan
Scotland
Thornton
Wiggins
Simpson
Carrazzo
Betts
Murphy
Walker

vs

Simpson
Thomas
Wright
Curnow
Jones
Casboult
Mullet
OShea
Rowe

Club is paying the price for abysmal drafting and trading for the years up to 2015. Lenny Hayes once said you don't really feel like you've fully established yourself as an AFL footballer until the 70 game mark.

Our core side should have been built on players that were taken in the 2008-2014 off seasons.

These are the guys who win you games. Forget all the "we had an older team than 'x' nonsense that gets trotted out when we lose. These numbers are skewed but the fact that our senior core is always inferior to the oppositions.

Until the 2015-2017 draft crop get more games under their belt, we get some players back from injury, and the club starts using trade week for the now rather than the future than all this speculation on the coach is all hot air...

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:00 am 
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Bruce Doull
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:04 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
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Blueboy74 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
OK, now that we've agreed that your comments about Richmond and the Bulldogs are wrong, I'll follow you down the next tangent.
Who taught the Bulldogs or Tigers how to win? Beverage was a rookie coach, what group of premiership players did he have at his disposal teaching his players how to win?
How many premiership players did Richmond have?

You carry on like Bolton had a choice. Do you believe he had the chance to be successful or play finals footy but instead he chose to head to the bottom?
He took on a wooden spoon team. A team with 4 wins that lost 6 of its last 7 games by an average margin of 70 points. Those teams included luminaries like Jason Tutt, Matthew Dick, Andrejs Everitt, Matthew Watson. Mark Whiley, Cameron Wood, Clem Smith, Brad Walsh etc etc etc.

What would be your course of action? Dont just be critical. We all know you can do that. Instead of turning over the list and rebuilding, what would be your solution?
Ratten took arguably a worst group and had them playing finals in 2 years

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Didn't build any foundations. Peaked as an Elimination Final side. Who wants to come 8th?

As for a worse group?
Players that had played 70+ games from 2009.

Judd
Stevens
Fevola
Houlihan
Scotland
Thornton
Wiggins
Simpson
Carrazzo
Betts
Murphy
Walker
Waite

vs

Simpson
Thomas
Wright
Curnow
Jones
Casboult
Mullet
OShea
Rowe

Club is paying the price for abysmal drafting and trading for the years up to 2015. Lenny Hayes once said you don't really feel like you've fully established yourself as an AFL footballer until the 70 game mark.

Our core side should have been built on players that were taken in the 2008-2014 off seasons.

These are the guys who win you games. Forget all the "we had an older team than 'x' nonsense that gets trotted out when we lose. These numbers are skewed but the fact that our senior core is always inferior to the oppositions.

Until the 2015-2017 draft crop get more games under their belt, we get some players back from injury, and the club starts using trade week for the now rather than the future than all this speculation on the coach is all hot air...


EFA

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:12 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17567
Braithy wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
What course of action would you prefer Bolton head down?

What should Bolton have done differently?



i don't believe we should be talking about bolton here in this instance. because he never should have been appointed head coach.



Yes, going to experienced coaches has been great for us the past 20 years, hasn't it?

Nice try. You and Sydney are the ones doing lots of talking about Bolton.
What should he have done differently that would have improved the situation.
Any nuffy can highlight problems. Give us some solutions. Tell us what he should have done differently.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:16 am 
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Rod Ashman
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I have been concerned for sometime about the players/coaches inability to improve disposals. I think it was the Geelong mantra to touch the ball at least 300 tines in training every day. Looking at Mic’d up they are playing F@$&ing soccer. Before everybody piles on about diversity ect in training that’s fine but get he absulute basics in place first. Train the bloody kicking and handballs until their feet fall off

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:17 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blue Vain wrote:
Braithy wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
What course of action would you prefer Bolton head down?

What should Bolton have done differently?



i don't believe we should be talking about bolton here in this instance. because he never should have been appointed head coach.



Yes, going to experienced coaches has been great for us the past 20 years, hasn't it?

Nice try. You and Sydney are the ones doing lots of talking about Bolton.
What should he have done differently that would have improved the situation.
Any nuffy can highlight problems. Give us some solutions. Tell us what he should have done differently.


Well derr... he should have won more games! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:25 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Blue Vain wrote:
Have the Dogs ever been to the bottom? How about the Tigers?
They won the past 2 flags!


I understand people are disappointed and upset but I don't believe that's a valid excuse to post the same bullshit and emotive untruths over and over again.

Sing it loud brother. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:32 am 
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Bruce Comben

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Sorry Bolts, last nights game against the doggies proved that you’re a good assistant coach, and unfortunately a poor senior coach. Luke Beveridge has in three years won a premiership and installed a game plan which the entire squad play to.

Youth was no excuse for them, they had more players with less than 10 games playing, and their average age was lower than ours.

Beveridge demands compliance to his plan, Bolts asks for patience. In three years the only style of game we remotely play is numbers behind the footy so we don’t get scored heavily against. At this level, that’s not an adequate plan. To be truthful i’m A little embarrassed that we are asking out team to play an under 10’s kick and hope style of play.

We need to make a change, see if one our assistance can take over and ask Bolts to become the development coach. We need to see if we can land a Clarkson type, who is innovative but more importantly understands how to set a game play structure throughout the entire playing list.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:33 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Vain wrote:
The Duke wrote:
There's a tipping point where the losing becomes debilitating on the group and they lose all confidence and ability to win. I believe we're at that point now.

Two years ago we were flying. We won some big games mid-season and looked great. The players had belief in themselves and the coach. I know a few players are missing from that team, but we've replaced them with quality youth - just like we saw last night.....from the Dogs.

The difference with them is they play with belief.


Were the Dogs playing with belief last week when they lost by 9 goals? What about Round 1 when they lost by 82 points?


No. They played like a team with an average age of just 23 - there'll be up and downs - which all of us can handle. We have won 1 game in 15.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:34 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Sorry - 16

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:46 am 
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Bruce Doull
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The reason for our woes are very clear

2008 draft
Pick 6 Yarran
Pick 40. Mitch Robinson
Pick 65. Rhys o Keefe
Pick 80. Caleb Tiller

2009
Pick 12. Kane Lucas
Pick 43. Marcus Davies
Pick 59. Rohan Kerr

2010
Pick 18. Matthew Watson
Pick 34. Patrick McCarthy
Pick. 42 Luke Mitchell
Pick 67. Andrew Mcinnes
Pick 70.Nick Duigan

2011
Pick 22. Josh Bootsma
Pick 44. Sam Rowe
Pick 62. Dylan Buckley

2012.
Pick 12. Troy Menzel
Pick 35. Tom Temay
Pick 54. Nick Graham

2013.
Pick 13. Patrick Cripps
Pick 39. Cameron Giles
Pick 51. Nick Holman

2014
Pick 19. Blaine Boekhurst
Pick 28. Dillion Rainbow
Pick 60. Clem Smith

Norm @#$%&! Smith couldn't work miracles with what was left after this.

Incidentally, who did our opposition select in that timeframe?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:48 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Blue Vain wrote:
Braithy wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
What course of action would you prefer Bolton head down?

What should Bolton have done differently?



i don't believe we should be talking about bolton here in this instance. because he never should have been appointed head coach.



Yes, going to experienced coaches has been great for us the past 20 years, hasn't it?

Nice try. You and Sydney are the ones doing lots of talking about Bolton.
What should he have done differently that would have improved the situation.
Any nuffy can highlight problems. Give us some solutions. Tell us what he should have done differently.
Try not turning over 14 players a year
Develop proper drills and game plans instead of going on Boy Scout camps to Tassie
Stop telling them it is ok lose.
Draft in bigger bodies with finals experience to teach and protect the bodies of young developing players.

There are a few things I would have done differently.

By the time these players get to the age where they are mature enough their bodies will be battered .


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:49 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Oops.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:51 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 4518
Location: Blisstonia.
goodbuzz wrote:
Sorry Bolts, last nights game against the doggies proved that you’re a good assistant coach, and unfortunately a poor senior coach. Luke Beveridge has in three years won a premiership and installed a game plan which the entire squad play to.

Youth was no excuse for them, they had more players with less than 10 games playing, and their average age was lower than ours.

Beveridge demands compliance to his plan, Bolts asks for patience. In three years the only style of game we remotely play is numbers behind the footy so we don’t get scored heavily against. At this level, that’s not an adequate plan. To be truthful i’m A little embarrassed that we are asking out team to play an under 10’s kick and hope style of play.

We need to make a change, see if one our assistance can take over and ask Bolts to become the development coach. We need to see if we can land a Clarkson type, who is innovative but more importantly understands how to set a game play structure throughout the entire playing list.


Their last 30 games are nothing compared to the Premiership year.

They are a young side - no doubt - but again this "younger than us" stat is skewed by the fact that Simpson and Thomas bump the average high, and it's about the quality of the senior players and our lack of experienced, quality midfielders.

Again..

Players last night with 70+ games.

Suckling
Daulhaus
Wood
Wallis
Hunter
Crozier
Macrae
Bontempelli
Johannisen

vs

Simpson
Thomas
Wright
Curnow
Jones
Casboult
Mullet
OShea
Rowe

Which group would you take?, and how many are midfielders in each list?

Charlie kicks a sitter we are within 10 points, yet one coach is genius and the other a development coach...

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Last edited by Blueboy74 on Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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