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Now what?
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Author:  ThePsychologist [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Now what?
I think it's fair to say that a lot of us have seen this coming for a long while. Our list is poor and we are a long long way from the top. The recruitment, coaching and development over the past decade has put us in spot where there is no easy and/or quick way out.

What is even worse for us is the rise of GCS & GWS. IMO these sides will be as good as anything we have ever seen. The talent on their lists is incredible and will ensure their success for the next decade.

So, Now What? What do we do?

Personally I cannot see any option but to really bottom out and trade for early picks and kids and build from the ground up. In theory I hate it but what's our other options? If we just try and build on what we have how far can we go?

Tough decisions need to be made and questions need to be asked and answered regarding every player & coach. Is MM the right guy to rebuild? I'm not sure because I don't think he fully believes in it.

Decisions now need to be made on our playing list. Everyone needs to be discussed. Everyone!! There needs to be a plan for the next 3-5 years. We need to bring in talent. It can't be done in one year. The one thing I do know is we can't go to free agency. Getting players at 25 will not help us. We are too far away.

The "Judge" says that we need to improve our recruiting and development. Great, I agree, but that needs to be backed up and there is no point improving our recruiting if we only have 3 late picks a year.

My greatest fear at the moment is that we will just drift around 10-14th with no real direction. IMO that's a waste.

In fairness, I don't have the answer and what ever it is it's a hell of a long way back. With the new President now on board and finals out of reach decisions need to be made NOW and a very clear direction needs to be set and importantly it needs to be articulated. It's need to be done for the benefit of the club and most of all for it's members. As we stand today we have very little hope.
Author:  grrofunger [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
we need to get as many picks as we can this year

agressive ruthless trading, only problem is we have little currency
Author:  sstormin123 [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
It's EXACTLY what needs to happen - but won't.

I'm sure we will be thrilled to hear about the contract extension of Carazzo and Robinson to get us through to the next flag
It's laughable, except that's what the club thinks will do.

Aggressive list management is what is needed. Take the kids gloves off and be ruthless. It's giving the old boys and favourites an easy run that has gotten us into this mess.
Author:  Dominator_7 [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
Carrots, Brock, Waite, definitely should be finished up.
Lucas, Watson, Robbo traded or delisted.
Judd stay on minimum wage for 1 more year.
Maybe look at trading Kreuzer, as he's the only player I can think of that might get us something decent.
Sniff around GWS and GC for talented kids not getting a regular game (eg. Jaksh)
No speculative picks with our first Draft Pick.
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
were in a pickle arent we???

for years ... people around the club couldnt read the writing on the wall
inspired by hope and fantasy those around the club that allowed this situation to unfold should put their hand up.

2020 from here to be taken seriously in the competition.

no way any sooner.

sooner means a chaplain , grigg, hampson scenario at richmond.... topping up but going nowhere

what needs to happen is we need to build a cake and then we have created the cake then we can look at top ups.
unfortunately we will struggle to even have any kind of cake without bringing in more players from outside...
so were in a bind arent we?
poor recruitment / development and choices have slayed us
Author:  redback [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
mick didn't see it coming :lol:
Author:  ThePsychologist [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
grrofunger wrote:
we need to get as many picks as we can this year

agressive ruthless trading, only problem is we have little currency


Agree about currency and that is another result of poor recruiting over the past decade.

IMO we need a very smart and aggressive List Manager. That has to be our No.1 priority but not our only priority. We need to be able to "package" up picks and players that put us in better positions.
Author:  The Rhino [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
Shit draft year.

Players will stay based on that alone.
Author:  ThePsychologist [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
The Rhino wrote:
Shit draft year.

Players will stay based on that alone.


I don't believe that. There are some very good players available and like very year there will be good players late and in the rookie draft.

If we go in with the attitude of "it's a crap draft and wait a year" it achieves nothing. Even if we go in with 6 - 8 picks and get 2-3 good players it's a start.
Author:  Hornet [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
Re-sign Gibbs for 5 years... yeah... that'll fix things
Author:  Rexy [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
Sticks and Bear walk away immediately

Spill the board

New board rebuilds the FD via proper process

FD rebuilds the list
Author:  Pafloyul [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
Dominator_7 wrote:
Carrots, Brock, Waite, definitely should be finished up.
Lucas, Watson, Robbo traded or delisted.
Judd stay on minimum wage for 1 more year.
Maybe look at trading Kreuzer, as he's the only player I can think of that might get us something decent.
Sniff around GWS and GC for talented kids not getting a regular game (eg. Jaksh)
No speculative picks with our first Draft Pick.


Agreed but with more speculative selections with later picks, providing they aren't O'Sullivan and Hughes 'grow another 7-13 cm' specials. :wink:
Author:  Just Judd [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
Keep getting games into the old guys that's what ffs..... flower development play the old guys for the rest of the year.......
Author:  ThePsychologist [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
Pafloyul wrote:
Dominator_7 wrote:
Carrots, Brock, Waite, definitely should be finished up.
Lucas, Watson, Robbo traded or delisted.
Judd stay on minimum wage for 1 more year.
Maybe look at trading Kreuzer, as he's the only player I can think of that might get us something decent.
Sniff around GWS and GC for talented kids not getting a regular game (eg. Jaksh)
No speculative picks with our first Draft Pick.


Agreed but with more speculative selections with later picks, providing they aren't O'Sullivan and Hughes 'grow another 7-13 cm' specials. :wink:



There is another point and why we need a dedicated List Manager.

Can we PLEASE pick players that aren't projects and can step straight in and play AFL football. Look at last year, names like Dunstan, Hartung, Taylor, Langdon etc all can play straight away. It allows them to get experience and develop at the same time.
Author:  ThePsychologist [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
Hornet wrote:
Re-sign Gibbs for 5 years... yeah... that'll fix things


This is a hard one but I'd let him go. I have been impressed with him this year but he has value. With approx. Pick 4 this year we could easily have Pick 5 as well. There will be some absolute stars at Pick 4 & 5 this year.

It would also release Salary Cap room and with the new rules allowing clubs to "bank money" for future seasons it could help us land a star in a few years.

Gutsy move but I would do it.
Author:  The Rhino [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
ThePsychologist wrote:
The Rhino wrote:
Shit draft year.

Players will stay based on that alone.


I don't believe that. There are some very good players available and like very year there will be good players late and in the rookie draft.

If we go in with the attitude of "it's a crap draft and wait a year" it achieves nothing. Even if we go in with 6 - 8 picks and get 2-3 good players it's a start.


At this point last year, I reckon there was about 20-25 players on the radar for potential first round draft picks, by about draft week there were about 30, for one reason or another - list deficiencies, draft camp results, etc.

At this point in the year, I reckon there's probably 8, maybe 10. (not including Darcy Moore given F/S status)

Yep - fair call, there's always going to be diamonds in the rough, and we're pretty good at finding them on past history. But of all the years for us to head to the draft table in blind faith/necessity/anything is better than the shit on our list, now is not the year.

Is it really worth - for example, paying out Matthew Watson's last year, so we can bring in a speculative in an ordinary draft year?

I'd rather another year of a similar approach to this year - lets find 2 or 3 money ball prospects, clear what dead wood we can to other clubs without having to pay them out, and use our first pick on a KP player. If nothing else, it gives us a better position to judge whether to extend Malthouse's contract, and we can go back to the draft next year with hopefully a better crop available. Not like we're going to bounce straight back up any time soon.
Author:  grrofunger [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
Just very quickly flicking through the list, its ugly.

Players with some worth like murphy,gibbs,yarran,henderson arent going to be traded. they are worth more to us than what we would get in return.

Core:

Troy Menzel
Marc Murphy
Bryce Gibbs
Kade Simpson
Dylan Buckley
Robert Warnock
Chris Yarran
Sam Docherty
Patrick Cripps
Sam Rowe
Lachie Henderson
Andrejs Everitt
Ed Curnow
Dale Thomas
Michael Jamison
Levi Casboult
Chris Judd (1 year reduced wage)

Realistically i see our trade stock as below, again ugly.

Look to Trade:

Zach Tuohy
Simon White
Andrew Carrazzo (retire?)
David Ellard
Andrew Walker - 2nd rounder if lucky?
Matthew Kreuzer - take a first rounder and run , more like 2nd rounder
Kane Lucas
Matthew Watson
Mitch Robinson - would someone give us a second rounder?
Brock McLean (retire?)
Andrew McInnes
Dennis Armfield
Tom Bell
Jarrad Waite (retire?)
Jeff Garlett - a fringe wa player in return?

gee , we are screwed

Questionable Kids:

Tom Temay
Nick Graham
Cameron Giles
Nick Holman
Author:  ThePsychologist [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
Not easy is it. :?
Author:  Pafloyul [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
ThePsychologist wrote:
Pafloyul wrote:
Dominator_7 wrote:
Carrots, Brock, Waite, definitely should be finished up.
Lucas, Watson, Robbo traded or delisted.
Judd stay on minimum wage for 1 more year.
Maybe look at trading Kreuzer, as he's the only player I can think of that might get us something decent.
Sniff around GWS and GC for talented kids not getting a regular game (eg. Jaksh)
No speculative picks with our first Draft Pick.


Agreed but with more speculative selections with later picks, providing they aren't O'Sullivan and Hughes 'grow another 7-13 cm' specials. :wink:



There is another point and why we need a dedicated List Manager.

Can we PLEASE pick players that aren't projects and can step straight in and play AFL football. Look at last year, names like Dunstan, Hartung, Taylor, Langdon etc all can play straight away. It allows them to get experience and develop at the same time.


I don't think we are picking project players, it just seems that way because we self-sabotage when the players aren't jumping out of their skins (metaphorically speaking) to be taken with our picks.
Author:  grrofunger [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Now what?
ThePsychologist wrote:
Not easy is it. :?


nothing there to work with at all
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