Ok....I'm suffering from deja vu here...but given the clubs predicament...could someone please explain how winning helps? I'm seeing a lot of blaming umpires for losses and a lot of angst about not winning...but umpires will never cost you a game of football...the team beats itself or the opposition is too good. It's glaringly easy to see this lists deficiencies...and the majority of you want to win? Are you crazy?

Change should have come last year but the boards insistence that this team defeated Richmond in a final and forgot that the Sydney final ever occurred. They genuinely thought that the list was good enough. The 2014 list has giant holes...there isnt much point winning save to serve your own selfish needs.

Totally agree. As nice as the win would have been, these close losses highlight the deficiencies and hopefully reinforces the desire for change for those that can't, don't or won't.

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

winning isnt the problem.

the problem is winning convinces our moronic administration that all is ok.

we should be able to win and still deal with the deficiencies

success breeds success

losing sucks

and blah blah pick 4 instead of pick 10 or whatever , but our recruiters would @#$%&! up whatever pick so its irrelevant.

It all comes back to the board and the people running the club

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

AND the umpires are shit

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

You can win and regenerate a list at the same time if your Recruitment and Player Development is up to scratch. Just look at Geelong and Hawthorn (I don't count Sydney as the AFL turns a blind eye to their Salary Cap shenanigans).

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James Hird and Essendon* FC - #FOREVERDRUGCHEATS

I just want the players to feel reward for effort.

Tonight is the first time this year that it seemed like the vast majority gave a damn.

A win would be a good result.

Don't really care if they lost all the others. Not much joy there.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Winning equals development and high draft picks have not helped our cause anyway

Winning = development?? Bolony.

It's not about ladder position, it's about minimum standards of competitiveness. It's about generating a winning culture. Winning begets winning.

Both those teams have been helped enormously by the arrival of the expansion teams diluting the pool of available young players through a combination of picks and pre-selections.

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Whatever happened to this club
I wish I understood
We used to be so strong
We used to be so good

Totally agree but tonight is the night for barracking and umpire bashing and being pissed off because your colours have been lowered.

Normal transmission will resume tomorrow morning.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

And yeah what grrofunger said, the umpires were shit.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

The joy has been sucked out of footy for me; wanting to lose based on the perception the club needs to alert itself to the falseness of our development is just shit really.

A decade of cheering the team on is countered by a desire to see us lose in some sort of vain hope the Phoenix will rise from the ashes.

Where's those primal feelings of joy and anguish at watching the club, the players and the fans all experience what footy used to offer? It's quite miserable being a 'realist' Carlton, even an AFL fan, right now. Although I doubt I'd feel so despondent if we were say, Port Adelaide

Also @#$%&! the umpires.

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“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

This is a very poor attitude Doc.

Winning culture is the best culture, development over recruitment and it's not always Carlton's fault.

You don't follow a team wanting them to lose.

Development = winning is the equation we're after.

Don't worry there is still plenty of angst when we lose. I hate it. Been following this club since 1968 and don't intend to stop just yet. Like many thought, I am disenchanted with our club management and reluctance to follow due process and practice strong leadership and decision making.

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

Don't listen to the Doc he is on an absolute bender from one brewery to the next in the US.

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TC suffers from the social media illness - the death of respect and constructive discourse by keyboard.

Stupid question, I'll forgive him though, he's enjoying the baseball season too much

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world