TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our eyes?

I know it's not been a good year thus far
But there's arguably been more individual improvement than we've seen in previous years - Rowe, Yarran, White, Buckley, Warnock, Casboult, Menzell to name but a few

All I have heard since the game on Monday is how brave the Saints were with such a young team.

We were on average only 6 months older on Monday night. We've also used as many players as them this year (34) which is an equal league high.

All Carlton players who received coaches votes were 25 & younger. All Saints players were 30 & over.

Our oldest player was Simmo - who still has years left in him. Will play into mid 30s.

We haven't even started the rebuild properly yet and already have Doc, Bucks, Menz, Cripps (other kids unproven as yet) to add to a group of players who are about to enter their prime or have just entered it in: Murph, Gibbs, Warnock, Lachie, Yazz, Kreuz, Walker, Thomas, Curnow. There's a good base there.

Obviously our glaring need is KPP. Ideally I'd love a KPF with our first pick and somehow trade in other (my dream is Tomlinson).

Once Gibbs & Yarran are signed, the other uncontracted players are up for sale for the right price.

For a team who to the public haven't started the rebuild yet that's a good foundation. However I'm of the belief mick has been quietly going about the rebuild without ever publicly admitting it. And I'm all for it.

..as soon as krooz can play, they will name him.. ..they've been counting down the weeks for a month already..

buckey, menzel and doc. 3 of em will be guns , thats a dam good start and just hope they all see out the season injury free .

Big Kahuna Boot wrote:

..as soon as krooz can play, they will name him.. ..they've been counting down the weeks for a month already..

Really?
I thought he was a long way off and that with the injury he has he will have little impact this year

He's actually one I'd look to trade if the right offer was there

That said he wouldn't be on big coin and is a true club man so they're not the types teams should trade just from a culture perspective

Probably hang on to him and hope he gets a free run at it in next few years

He's still young for ruck/kpp

the upside of levi is better than krooooozer, levis kicking will improve no doubt and we will have a very good footballer who can consistently get to contests and take marks

Shouldnt have lost to Melbourne
8 wins tops this year
Guard changing or not its pretty sad and pretty poor out of a so called coach who brings out the best in players

Springsteen wrote:

the upside of levi is better than krooooozer, levis kicking will improve no doubt and we will have a very good footballer who can consistently get to contests and take marks

..not sure I follow the logic.. ..they are both roughly the same age.. ..not sure why levi's kicking will improve, but krooz has no upside..?.. ..factor in they're not even the same roles.. ..one is a ruck, the other a key forward.. ..and yet, krooz has kicked more goals playing as a key forward, not a role he is a natural at, than Levi has..

..bottom line, Levi has to reach the upside he has, jus to get to where krooz is at now.. ..and krooz has plenty of upside left in him too, mind.. ..not too sure why some players can improve and others can not when we see plenty of players have much better second halves to their careers..

Author:	Sugarcane [ Wed May 14, 2014 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our eyes?
I know it's not been a good year thus far But there's arguably been more individual improvement than we've seen in previous years - Rowe, Yarran, White, Buckley, Warnock, Casboult, Menzell to name but a few Plus Docherty and Everitt have been good additions And Gibbs seems to have decided to stay which points to something being at the end of the rainbow And we've played a lot of games this year without Judd, Waite, Carrazzo, Scotland, and Brock missed one or two If, and these are big Ifs, we can win our next two- two winnable games - we will be on an even keel I'm not for one minute suggesting we will be finals contenders nor worthy of such But I just wonder if this is going to be one of those years where maybe the runs aren't on the ladder board but some critical development of the list transpires What we wouldn't do for another handful of good kids on the list The upcoming off season we will need to hit the jackpot with the draft and FA A shame Cripps got injured

Author:	showbag [ Wed May 14, 2014 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
sneak into the 8 and the BAM .... Blueman!!!

Author:	emtwenty [ Wed May 14, 2014 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
All I have heard since the game on Monday is how brave the Saints were with such a young team. We were on average only 6 months older on Monday night. We've also used as many players as them this year (34) which is an equal league high. All Carlton players who received coaches votes were 25 & younger. All Saints players were 30 & over. Our oldest player was Simmo - who still has years left in him. Will play into mid 30s. We haven't even started the rebuild properly yet and already have Doc, Bucks, Menz, Cripps (other kids unproven as yet) to add to a group of players who are about to enter their prime or have just entered it in: Murph, Gibbs, Warnock, Lachie, Yazz, Kreuz, Walker, Thomas, Curnow. There's a good base there. Obviously our glaring need is KPP. Ideally I'd love a KPF with our first pick and somehow trade in other (my dream is Tomlinson). Once Gibbs & Yarran are signed, the other uncontracted players are up for sale for the right price. For a team who to the public haven't started the rebuild yet that's a good foundation. However I'm of the belief mick has been quietly going about the rebuild without ever publicly admitting it. And I'm all for it.

Author:	Springsteen [ Thu May 15, 2014 12:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
buckey, menzel and doc. 3 of em will be guns , thats a dam good start and just hope they all see out the season injury free .

Author:	Blue Sombrero [ Thu May 15, 2014 1:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
Changing of the guard? No doubt about it. Rebuild? Don't think so i a formal sense. MM will cut deep again this year and we will have to be active at thr trade table and looking for FA, of which there don't seem to be a lot apart from Frawley who will probably end up at the Hawks. IMO we should cut Judd loose to free up space in the cap. Waite maybe. Scotto for sure, although he isn't probably on a lot. Gibbs is out of the club's control until he actually signs. Kreuzer? Warnock? Both possibilities or should be and even Walker. If we were to get rid of all those (I would be happy for Gibbs to stay if he isn't on too much money) we would have plenty to work with in the TPP. It all depends on how the kids can run ot the season. I would expect them to tire and that we have a poor last few weeks unless someone else can hold down a position. Next year. There's always next year, isn't there? It's just such a pity we're already talking about it after seven rounds.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our eyes? http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34000	Page 1 of 3

Author:	aboynamedsue [ Thu May 15, 2014 8:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
Sugarcane wrote: I know it's not been a good year thus far But there's arguably been more individual improvement than we've seen in previous years - Rowe, Yarran, White, Buckley, Warnock, Casboult, Menzell to name but a few Jamo is another one. On the other hand, there's a few that have been a bit down on last year for various reasons - Tuohy, Garlett, Brock, Tex & Hendo come to mind. We're not at the half way mark of the season yet, so there's time to turn it around for those players (whom I rate, by the way). I'm not being super critical, I'm just saying there's 5 good players who haven't hit their straps yet in 2014. Hopefully they can deliver what they are capable of in the 2nd half of the season. And it'd be a bonus if we can get Curnow, Bell, Thomas, Carrazzo, Judd & Waite back somewhere near peak fitness. I'm not expecting much from Kreuzer in 2014. He might be available in the later rounds, but it's all about getting his body right for 2015 and beyond. Anyway, if we can have a decent run of luck with injuries from here on, I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll be a better team in the 2nd half of the year.

Author:	Big Kahuna Boot [ Thu May 15, 2014 8:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
..as soon as krooz can play, they will name him.. ..they've been counting down the weeks for a month already..

Author:	Sugarcane [ Thu May 15, 2014 9:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
emtwenty wrote: All I have heard since the game on Monday is how brave the Saints were with such a young team. We were on average only 6 months older on Monday night. We've also used as many players as them this year (34) which is an equal league high. All Carlton players who received coaches votes were 25 & younger. All Saints players were 30 & over. Our oldest player was Simmo - who still has years left in him. Will play into mid 30s. We haven't even started the rebuild properly yet and already have Doc, Bucks, Menz, Cripps (other kids unproven as yet) to add to a group of players who are about to enter their prime or have just entered it in: Murph, Gibbs, Warnock, Lachie, Yazz, Kreuz, Walker, Thomas, Curnow. There's a good base there. Obviously our glaring need is KPP. Ideally I'd love a KPF with our first pick and somehow trade in other (my dream is Tomlinson). Once Gibbs & Yarran are signed, the other uncontracted players are up for sale for the right price. For a team who to the public haven't started the rebuild yet that's a good foundation. However I'm of the belief mick has been quietly going about the rebuild without ever publicly admitting it. And I'm all for it. Great post

Author:	Sugarcane [ Thu May 15, 2014 9:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
Big Kahuna Boot wrote: ..as soon as krooz can play, they will name him.. ..they've been counting down the weeks for a month already.. Really? I thought he was a long way off and that with the injury he has he will have little impact this year He's actually one I'd look to trade if the right offer was there That said he wouldn't be on big coin and is a true club man so they're not the types teams should trade just from a culture perspective Probably hang on to him and hope he gets a free run at it in next few years He's still young for ruck/kpp

Author:	Sugarcane [ Thu May 15, 2014 9:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
Springsteen wrote: buckey, menzel and doc. 3 of em will be guns , thats a dam good start and just hope they all see out the season injury free . Well I think we have around 20 odd for future but we need about 30 so it's not like the cupboard is bare but we do need to add more young talent especially KPP and midfield

Author:	Big Kahuna Boot [ Thu May 15, 2014 9:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
Sugarcane wrote: Big Kahuna Boot wrote: ..as soon as krooz can play, they will name him.. ..they've been counting down the weeks for a month already.. Really? I thought he was a long way off and that with the injury he has he will have little impact this year He's actually one I'd look to trade if the right offer was there That said he wouldn't be on big coin and is a true club man so they're not the types teams should trade just from a culture perspective Probably hang on to him and hope he gets a free run at it in next few years He's still young for ruck/kpp ..he was a long way off, now currently two months.... ..doesn't stop them scratching off the weeks as they go by.. ....all noise to date has been the expectation to get him right for later in the year.. ..history shows that they rush him back into the side far more often than not.. ..if there is no setback, he will play this season.... ..they've never been smart with how they manage him..

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Thu May 15, 2014 10:23 am ]
Post subject:
Shouldnt have lost to Melbourne 8 wins tops this year Guard changing or not its pretty sad and pretty poor out of a so called coach who brings out the best in players

Author:	frank dardew [ Thu May 15, 2014 10:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
Agreed and makes it all the more palatable going to games seeing the young ones develop -Docherty menzel buckley all pluses - still think cripps will be good and would like him to get more game time Need to be careful in how we do it in my view club haven't really helped bell for example in his development - brought back against Collingwood when he was still injured and then couldn't play against aints - dropped earlier in the year after the game he was sub -when he came on and played serviceably and seemed to be a scapegoat for the loss - not sure why you would drop the sub when those playing 90 mins were shocking Carrazzo waite and judd all on their last legs - injury means all 3 cant really be relied on and should be bit players at the very least - Scotland should be seen in a similar vein

Author:	Springsteen [ Thu May 15, 2014 11:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
the upside of levi is better than krooooozer, levis kicking will improve no doubt and we will have a very good footballer who can consistently get to contests and take marks

Page 1 of 3	All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	The Rhino [ Thu May 15, 2014 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
Pretty sure my answer is probably in one of the following threads, given they're essentially the same one: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33998 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=33985 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33974 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33977 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33897 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33491 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33084 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33055 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33028 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32989 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31142 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31622 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30651 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30593 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30382 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30228

Author:	Big Kahuna Boot [ Thu May 15, 2014 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
Springsteen wrote: the upside of levi is better than krooooozer, levis kicking will improve no doubt and we will have a very good footballer who can consistently get to contests and take marks ..not sure I follow the logic.. ..they are both roughly the same age.. ..not sure why levi's kicking will improve, but krooz has no upside..?.. ..factor in they're not even the same roles.. ..one is a ruck, the other a key forward.. ..and yet, krooz has kicked more goals playing as a key forward, not a role he is a natural at, than Levi has.. ..bottom line, Levi has to reach the upside he has, jus to get to where krooz is at now.. ..and krooz has plenty of upside left in him too, mind.. ..not too sure why some players can improve and others can not when we see plenty of players have much better second halves to their careers..

Author:	Sugarcane [ Thu May 15, 2014 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
Sydney Blue wrote: Shouldnt have lost to Melbourne 8 wins tops this year Guard changing or not its pretty sad and pretty poor out of a so called coach who brings out the best in players I'd argue he has more individuals developing their game well than Ratten did

Author:	Sugarcane [ Thu May 15, 2014 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
The Rhino wrote: Pretty sure my answer is probably in one of the following threads, given they're essentially the same one: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33998 viewtopic.php?f=17&t=33985 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33974 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33977 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33897 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33491 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33084 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33055 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33028 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32989 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31142 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31622 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30651 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30593 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30382 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30228 Is there a changing of the guard happening right now? Feel free to make a proper contribution to this website if that's at all possible for you ??? (Instead of merely being a smart arse who plays the man not the ball which is fast becoming your forte)

Author:	Sugarcane [ Thu May 15, 2014 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
Big Kahuna Boot wrote: Springsteen wrote: the upside of levi is better than krooooozer, levis kicking will improve no doubt and we will have a very good footballer who can consistently get to contests and take marks ..not sure I follow the logic.. ..they are both roughly the same age.. ..not sure why levi's kicking will improve, but krooz has no upside..?.. ..factor in they're not even the same roles.. ..one is a ruck, the other a key forward.. ..and yet, krooz has kicked more goals playing as a key forward, not a role he is a natural at, than Levi has.. ..bottom line, Levi has to reach the upside he has, jus to get to where krooz is at now.. ..and krooz has plenty of upside left in him too, mind.. ..not too sure why some players can improve and others can not when we see plenty of players have much better second halves to their careers.. Fair retort there I can't speak for Spring but maybe it's the perception that Levi had made some good strides of late whereas Kreuzers development has stalled Of course injuries have played a part But injuries are reality and there'd be some who worry Kreuz mightn't ever come good...

Author:	The Rhino [ Thu May 15, 2014 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard in front of our ey
There is not a changing of the guard happening right now. There will however be one in about 5 hours according to this website: http://www.royal.gov.uk/royaleventsandc ... rview.aspx That is the only legitimate contribution I have, as there is no question to answer. It's just you making a thread for the sake of it, when you could have easily put it in the post-game discussion thread, and then claiming victimization/playing the man when someone points out that you always do it to seek attention. Not to be Nostradamus or anything, but I predict that once we lose our next game by a substantial margin you'll put up another thread along the lines of "Do we have a top 8 standard bootstudder?"/"Should we delist Mitch Robinson?"/"Is our coach good?"/"Name our best 22 for 2047", followed by a thread stating the complete opposite stance once we have a good win. Oh and the obligatory reference to "my mate who is a serious football supporter...but follows Collingwood" Moshe summed it up far better in his Bryce Gibbs thread, but how exactly else are we supposed to see something happening if it isn't in front of our eyes?