TalkingCarlton :: View topic - So what would you do?

MM and the club should part ways at the end of this season.

The club needs to go through a proper process to appoint a coach who will be there for the long haul. Sooner the club get that coach the better. It is clear MM is not the person to take the club forward.

In terms of list management - don't offer players over the odds to stay - if Gibbs wants to go then he goes - I prefer he stay but if he refuses the offer then he goes. If say a Gibbs goes and they end up with a pick then DO NOT package picks together and trade them off unless the deal is enormously in Carlton's favour.

With Hawthorn's build through the mid to late 2000s they didn't trade unless it was clear they were the winner. They got the player they wanted telling a club they wanted to be traded there - the trades were on Hawthorn's terms.

They were able to get poor trades out of North Melbourne with Hay (although could be argued it was more complicated because of Hay's illness).

The point is that if you receive a pick for a player like that DON'T PACKAGE PICKS TOGETHER FOR ONE PLAYER.

One example of this is in Carlton's backyard - the Fev trade - look at what we got - Henderson and pick 12 for Fev and 27.

If you get offered a deal like that you take it and run.

No packaging picks together for say a Patton. Build quality depth.

If the club gets an extra early pick - don't then go and trade the second or third round picks - unless the offer is way in our favour.

See the club has gone down the path of thinking once it acquires something (Henderson + 12, or compo pick for Betts) that it can then go and spend some of the loot - eg McLean and D Thomas.

It means the club has fewer picks at each draft - it all adds up in the end.

Add to the picks you have (unless some club is dumb enough to offer you something too good to refuse). It can't just be a focus on the draft though - it has to be backed up with the right development staff and the right coaching staff - only selected via an interview process; not people recruited with the cheque book who may be past it.

I am confident that the recruiting staff understand the philosophy (see Shane Rogers comments) - but those at board level and/or coaching level don't.

Stop with the Carlton arrogance - stop the "we're Carlton @#$%&! the rest".

Go about things quietly and get the joint in order.

Don't pander to the impatient supporter who thinks a saviour big name coach/player is the panacea.

Author:	mikkey [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:	So what would you do?
TC is full of threads discussing Sticks, the Board, the 2 MM's etc. But lets look at the bigger picture. What would you do - and don't say "a review". Why - in concrete - are we falling behind the other clubs and what should be done to turn the super tanker around - besides burning the place down and start from scratch. Here are my 2 cents: OK. Let me ask you guys - do you really think knee jerks and sacrificial lambs will solve the problems at our club? What is really needed? I think what is needed is "HOPE" and hope comes from clear directions and a long-term plan (a real one - not some power point dreamed up by a consultant). We should ask ourselves - how come that Tigers who have had far less success then us in the last 20 years have 20 thousand more members AND got rid of their debt. And they did it within a ~ 5 year period. The reason seen from my view point is that a new Board and a new CEO connected with their supporter base and ignited hope. They are probably in for a backlash if they don't make the finals this year, but nothing like what we are facing. Carlton's situation is amplified by the years post black Friday. We probably lost part of a generation of supporters and the rest of us survived by looking at Hawthorn and Saints who built successful teams from the draft. We sat there and endured the 100 point thrashings in the "knowledge" of the new dawn - when the "messiah" (remember ?) Murphy was drafted etc and then finally the recruitment of Judd (Jesus). The backlash of not being able to penetrate the top 4 with this group (due to bad recruiting and development) has been immense. We are no longer one of the big clubs (but behave like it) and are doing our long term future irreparable damage. The biggest mistake we could make now are the short term feel good sacrifice (eg demote Murphy, sack Malthouse etc.) its like peeing in the pants to keep warm. What we need is a the best President we can get and probably a better CEO. And that's it for the moment. What has to follow is a complete review of the structures, staff and list and the creation of a message that will be bought by supporters (ie gets them so sign up and turn up). Changes of personnel is probably necessary - but I doubt anyone here has enough knowledge of the club to make these decisions right now. It has to be a step by step process. 1) What is needed is to create pride in being a Blues supporter (which includes much better media relations - as we are always negatively portrayed - compare to Richmond again) - I suggest the Club hire a top notch PR company. The damage of the endless negative connotations in the media (even when we are going well) is costing us supporters in large numbers at the margins. We are the only club always referred to as salary cheats, the ones who used to buy premierships, the ones with all the money etc. We need positive stories in the media - we don't get positive stories. 2) Be honest with ourselves. Stop the "we are Carlton..." mentality. Stop thinking it is a privilege to be a Carlton member. Flog Pet, 1, 2, 3 game memberships and count them all like the others do. It is important to be seen to be attractive it also gives you a database for later upgrade to real memberships and to flog merchandise and sponsor messages. Ensure better value for membership fees. 3) Clear messages that don't change every week. An underlying message that keeps hopes up and instills trust. (There are conflicting opinions about Pratt - but I have no doubt that when he came back - so did hope and believe. And Hope is key.) Its about the message AND the personalities. We have a President who is constantly seen singing "stay by your man" after a GF (see also point 1). Some Clubs have charismatic Presidents others have charismatic CEO's - its not so important which role - but you need a strong front figure. 4) Get a top notch list manager - not a new recruiter who is part of a list management committee (that's how it is today) . Our lack of long term planning - eg. when the mini drafts for 17 year old's were on, or bold trading with GWS / GC , cost us big time. 5) Get rid of the debt - as long as we run around with huge debts we are so vulnerable if any "glitches" happen (you can always have a bad year due to injuries etc. We have to be independent from the Pratt's. 6) Think about what connecting with members/supporters means. If we look at our social media strategy - we are actually doing much better now. I look at other clubs and look for what they are doing to "connect / engage " better. In practice - not so much different - but they have a better message and their media relations is much better. And yes - if you win a lot of the above is so much easier. It is how you do it when you are down that is the proof in the pudding. Anyway. As I said - my 2 cents.

Author:	Michael Jezz [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
1) don't be short term in any decision 2) pick the president who has energy and time 3) reduce the board to 7 with at least 2 of McClure, walls or silvagni 4) replace swann 5) use all draft picks don't trade them 6) align the coaching contract with the rebuild time frame so the coach doesn't make short term decisions

Author:	Rexy [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:
It's MACLURE !!!!!!!!

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:
There could be something in this MM thing Micheal Mansfield Mich Maguane Mick Malthouse Mark Murphy Mick Martin Its either that or anyone called Michael

Author:	33mcconville [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
Great topic! From what I know, Sticks and Swann are at tenterhooks through some business deal that cocked up within the last year, but that is not the issue. Given - New President comes in and will not be a football person nor should he/she be Seems to be given - Walsh is gone. Does that mean that we have another large payout to manage? If the above two are true then who actually is employed to manage this shambles? Who decides whether we need a new recruiting department, a new group of development staff etc? Bruce Mathieson may not be the most eloquent person but his drafting/development opinions are just correct.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

So what would you do? http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33912	Page 1 of 5

Author:	Synbad [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
I would go to the pub... With low level Carlton people and pretend they listen. That's what I would do

Author:	The Normal One [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:	So what would you do?
Who is Walsh?

Author:	Navy Blue Horse [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
Great post Mikkey....I just hope your surname doesn't start with M

Author:	Wangers [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
New prez - one with direction and can galvanise the club along with a like minded executive team. Hire a gun CEO that will build a new business model. Build a long term strategy and design an org structure and the capabilities required to support the strategy. Evaluate the personnel below the executive, and make decisions on their future based on capability and performance. Hire the personnel to fill any gaps. Make a call on the coach at the end of 2014, re extension. Sell the vision to the members. There's a start.

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
Simple answer is tomorrow morning the board needs to show some b@lls and sack Swann immediately. As CEO, he is the person that has been running the club and is fully responsible for this mess. CEO's are the main men in any corporation when it comes to running the business and CFC are no different. He is the person responsible for making many decisions and providing the board with his recommendations and changes! We all know how they have gone. The new CEO, as part of his due diligence, will audit and evaluate the footy club and make the appropriate changes. That will be part of his 1st task as it is with all businesses. Next in line, the board need to give the members and supporters the blue print of the future. Who will lead the club after Sticks retires and what will the board look like. What is the clubs plan over the next 3 years in removing the debt, moving to the G and short to long term investment / revenue streams. That is the role of the board and not interested in any 5 year plans. Short but sharp 3 years plans from here. That is what needs to be done.

Author:	Effes [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
MM and the club should part ways at the end of this season. The club needs to go through a proper process to appoint a coach who will be there for the long haul. Sooner the club get that coach the better. It is clear MM is not the person to take the club forward. In terms of list management - don't offer players over the odds to stay - if Gibbs wants to go then he goes - I prefer he stay but if he refuses the offer then he goes. If say a Gibbs goes and they end up with a pick then DO NOT package picks together and trade them off unless the deal is enormously in Carlton's favour. With Hawthorn's build through the mid to late 2000s they didn't trade unless it was clear they were the winner. They got the player they wanted telling a club they wanted to be traded there - the trades were on Hawthorn's terms. They were able to get poor trades out of North Melbourne with Hay (although could be argued it was more complicated because of Hay's illness). The point is that if you receive a pick for a player like that DON'T PACKAGE PICKS TOGETHER FOR ONE PLAYER. One example of this is in Carlton's backyard - the Fev trade - look at what we got - Henderson and pick 12 for Fev and 27. If you get offered a deal like that you take it and run. No packaging picks together for say a Patton. Build quality depth. If the club gets an extra early pick - don't then go and trade the second or third round picks - unless the offer is way in our favour. See the club has gone down the path of thinking once it acquires something (Henderson + 12, or compo pick for Betts) that it can then go and spend some of the loot - eg McLean and D Thomas. It means the club has fewer picks at each draft - it all adds up in the end. Add to the picks you have (unless some club is dumb enough to offer you something too good to refuse). It can't just be a focus on the draft though - it has to be backed up with the right development staff and the right coaching staff - only selected via an interview process; not people recruited with the cheque book who may be past it. I am confident that the recruiting staff understand the philosophy (see Shane Rogers comments) - but those at board level and/or coaching level don't. Stop with the Carlton arrogance - stop the "we're Carlton @#$%&! the rest". Go about things quietly and get the joint in order. Don't pander to the impatient supporter who thinks a saviour big name coach/player is the panacea.

Author:	Synbad [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
SurreyBlue wrote: Simple answer is tomorrow morning the board needs to show some b@lls and sack Swann immediately. As CEO, he is the person that has been running the club and is fully responsible for this mess. CEO's are the main men in any corporation when it comes to running the business and CFC are no different. He is the person responsible for making many decisions and providing the board with his recommendations and changes! We all know how they have gone. The new CEO, as part of his due diligence, will audit and evaluate the footy club and make the appropriate changes. That will be part of his 1st task as it is with all businesses. Next in line, the board need to give the members and supporters the blue print of the future. Who will lead the club after Sticks retires and what will the board look like. What is the clubs plan over the next 3 years in removing the debt, moving to the G and short to long term investment / revenue streams. That is the role of the board and not interested in any 5 year plans. Short but sharp 3 years plans from here. That is what needs to be done. Ceos are employed Surrey..... Missing that bit?

Author:	scottopee [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
Sack the members/supporters they demand the best players/coach's or admin from every other club and this is the result. Until we finally clear ourself of this out dated practise the club will never change. Time to build from the inside not out in others words get them to be the best at our club first! Best people not best history.

Author:	Synbad [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
Effes wrote: MM and the club should part ways at the end of this season. The club needs to go through a proper process to appoint a coach who will be there for the long haul. Sooner the club get that coach the better. It is clear MM is not the person to take the club forward. In terms of list management - don't offer players over the odds to stay - if Gibbs wants to go then he goes - I prefer he stay but if he refuses the offer then he goes. If say a Gibbs goes and they end up with a pick then DO NOT package picks together and trade them off unless the deal is enormously in Carlton's favour. With Hawthorn's build through the mid to late 2000s they didn't trade unless it was clear they were the winner. They got the player they wanted telling a club they wanted to be traded there - the trades were on Hawthorn's terms. They were able to get poor trades out of North Melbourne with Hay (although could be argued it was more complicated because of Hay's illness). The point is that if you receive a pick for a player like that DON'T PACKAGE PICKS TOGETHER FOR ONE PLAYER. One example of this is in Carlton's backyard - the Fev trade - look at what we got - Henderson and pick 12 for Fev and 27. If you get offered a deal like that you take it and run. No packaging picks together for say a Patton. Build quality depth. If the club gets an extra early pick - don't then go and trade the second or third round picks - unless the offer is way in our favour. See the club has gone down the path of thinking once it acquires something (Henderson + 12, or compo pick for Betts) that it can then go and spend some of the loot - eg McLean and D Thomas. It means the club has fewer picks at each draft - it all adds up in the end. Add to the picks you have (unless some club is dumb enough to offer you something too good to refuse). It can't just be a focus on the draft though - it has to be backed up with the right development staff and the right coaching staff - only selected via an interview process; not people recruited with the cheque book who may be past it. I am confident that the recruiting staff understand the philosophy (see Shane Rogers comments) - but those at board level and/or coaching level don't. Stop with the Carlton arrogance - stop the "we're Carlton @#$%&! the rest". Go about things quietly and get the joint in order. Don't pander to the impatient supporter who thinks a saviour big name coach/player is the panacea. Mm is going nowhere... Believe me

Author:	tap in 79 [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
1) Erase Debt I would ask for AFL assistance to erase the debt & give it guidance on how to get the club out of its black hole, get whatever professionals in that can guide the recruitment department. Carlton needs outside assistance before it is shipped off to Tasmania, Townsville, Western Sydney or the Northern Territory. One way the debt could be erased is if the AFL funds the use of Princes Park and pays Carlton substantial sums for pre-season matches there instead of Etihad. After all, it is a bad look a 50,000 seat stadium with 4-8,000 people in it. The AFL needs to assist Carlton before it is too late An "advisory body" that sweeps through the whole turgid mess in terms of marketing, advertising, executive decision making etc... . The AFL assist GWS, Sydney Swans, Melbourne etc..time for a bit of assistance for Carlton. 2) No finals talk Get Carlton officials to acknowledge in public that finals are OUT of the equation. Anytime they say "we are aiming for the top 8" etc it is an insult to our intelligence. No Mick Malthouse, Andrew McKay interviews should mention finals. Everyone knows it is now impossible for Carlton to make the finals...just recover some pride. 3) good team selections I noticed that Parramatta in the rugby league lost to East by 56-2 or something similar at the beginning of the season. They re-played them this weekend and Parramatta won 14-12 or something similar. That is a remarkable turnaround. A few personnel changes changed their team I believe? They got some little bloke back I think, maybe someone with league knowledge can fill in the missing pieces on why they won. Not sure of the player names etc..just saw it on tv. The moral of the story is that with good player selections Carlton can at least be competitive - they will need players who can run and carry, and kick goals against the Bulldogs to get within 50 points of them, so stick with players who can run, carry, chase, tackle, know how to kick goals....if they can find them. 4) Local footy is no substitute I didn't watch the match on the weekend. I went back to local footy only to see my team up by 18 points with 5 minutes left and then there was an umpiring howler that had everyone in the crowd mystified including their team. He paid a free kick that wasn't there even on a thousand Sundays and that decision made sure their team could kick the six points that resulted in a draw. You could feel the anger in the crowd. Words weren't needed and the umpire bowed his head in disgrace as he walked off as he knew his decision decided the result. Maybe it is safer emotionally to watch Carlton matches after all. Will be watching them this weekend and skipping the local footy ...up until they are 40 points down anyway.

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Author:	Effes [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
Synbad wrote: Mm is going nowhere... Believe me What if there are more performances like the last two weeks? They'll be starting to squirm about next year's membership figures

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
mikkey wrote: So what would you do? Write a eulogy.

Author:	JohnM [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
Short answer: Replace every single board member tomorrow. Replace them with people who actually know what they're doing. These people will then replace the CEO with someone who knows what they're doing. This new CEO will replace under performing members of the executive with people who know what they're doing. The executive will replace under performing members of staff with people who know what they're doing. Shit flows downhill. I've been involved in two turnarounds of businesses about the same size as the CFC, and in just as much poo. There is NO substitute for focused, intelligent and passionate senior leaders who actually know what they're doing. You don't have that, you have nothing. Our board is effectively designed to guarantee failure; both through their own incompetence and through the incompetence of those they hire to run the executive. The problem, of course, is that there is no-one overseeing the board. No parent company to tap the board and make sweeping changes. Someone is going to have to methodically build a ticket and take these people out. As supporters, we can only hope such change comes sooner rather than later, and the ticket is actually a good one. The long answer is incredibly micro and involves getting a hundred little things right. But they all stem from that one big thing.

Author:	33mcconville [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: So what would you do?
So according to some sacking Swann is the answer? Did he recruit Watson and Bootsma with our first picks?