I agree you can draft good kids and bring in unfulfilled talent, except the unfulfilled talent should be young given the state of our list. More Dochertys; less Thomas types.

For a club like Geelong which is in the top 4 it is reasonable to bring in Rivers; McIntosh etc.

I understand fans want to make the finals but what I am sick of is occasionally having a list which can take us to 5-8 but isn't good enough to make the top 4.

History has shown you need to finish top 4 to win the premiership - I am willing to have some short term pain (finishing outside the if it means down the track the club has built a list capable of making the top 4.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Since when did 26 become old? thats 5 good years of footy.

History can be broken, if your in the finals you can win a premiership, plus the team will know what it means and feels like to play finals and therefore the kids we bring in have high expectations. Therefore you should build a winning culture.

Higgins is a good talent, and if we get him at a good price in the salary cap, why wouldnt we take him as a free agent. He would be in our top 22 easily.

High draft picks doesnt win you premierships!!!

List devlopment does!

Of all the players on our hitlist, the one i want the most is tom mitchell, young talent with elite capabilities and potential. May be a future captain at the club. The question is what do we give up for him and how much do we pay him?

Same age as Murph. Should we trade him too?

Same age as Murphy yet terrible injury issues; both bone and soft tissue. Even with Murphy's shoulder issue he's still played 56 more games than Higgins.

I guess we have form with signing injury prone players to hefty contracts...

Every player is tradeable for the right price.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

So I had a go on the famous jimmae team board last night.

By the end of 2015 I hope we line up like below

FB: Buckley Jamison <3rd Tall / Potential CHB>
HB: Simpson Rowe Docherty
C: Yarran Cripps Thomas
R: Kreuzer Murphy Gibbs
HF: Menzel Henderson <Goal Kicking Mid>
FF: Walker Watson <Small Forward>
Int: Judd Everitt Bell Carrazzo

It pains me to put Watson there. I suppose he showed something and he is contracted.
We really have nothing else.
Really need to get after a tall forward.

Gone

Lucas
Temay
Bootsma
McInnes
Waite
Duigan
McLean
Scotland (R)
Reynolds (R)
Cachia (R)

Trade / Depth

Warnock
Robinson
Armfield
Garlett
Casboult
Ellard

Depth / Develop

Holman
Graham
Wood
Tuohy
White
Curnow
Giles
Johnson (R) - Don't like his chances of making it
Byrne (R)
Sheehan (R)

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dane's trolling again

Agree chase Tom Mitchell. List development does; you're right. And the right price in the cap....again you are correct, but it seems Higgins wants this to be the big contract of his career (as is the case for many at his age).

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

How many of you would have been calling for us to add Shaun Higgins to the list through free agency if you had not heard about Carlton's supposed intentions? I'm beginning to think Surrey is right with all this "sheep Mentality" stuff. There's a difference between deliberately losing compared to being aware of your limitations so you don't do something silly that you will regret later. There are seventeen other clubs and I don't see too many of them overreaching when they are ill prepared like Carlton seem to do yet we still aren't the ones holding a cup up at the end of the season.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Well then what are we prepared to pay for higgins? is the real question.
Im not in the know about what players get paid. the problem is once players are on the market their price tags inflate through the roof, but at the same time if you want your target you need to fork out the cash.

I would pay Higgins something similar to what i would be paying Robinson or Gartlett.

that our promblem we are no good with our 2nd round selections how many over the years have been delisted.So if we trade all mentioned players for picks must get right .For me keep garlett and waite and robbo trade casboult to doggies for a pick ,not happy we keep him.

Yeah but we scored a excellent behind.

Something I think many on here don't realise is that playing finals and developing a stronger list are not mutually exclusive. Both can be done at the same time. Adding Higgins on his own won't instantly make us a finals team, but a haul similar to last year will certainly put us around the mark. Once you're in there you still have opportunities to draft and develop young talent and once you're in the finals you only become a more attractive destination for young players seeking a new club or for free agents.

Develop consistency and a winning culture within the group, then bring young players into that culture and develop them at a steady pace. You can't simply say we're not currently good enough so we should only bring in draftees, and then expect them to be the ones to drive the culture change. They never get to experience a culture that expects success and consistency, so they're never able to deliver it to the club.

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@cecil_anderson

Amen Cecil89

-1,000,000,000,000%

Of course they aren't mutually exclusive. The argument is that the club should focus solely on the Docherty types; not those 27+ who have significant deficiencies.

There are some suggestions of a Robinson for Kerridge deal....that would be a major upgrade. Kerridge would address a key deficiency in the list and is still very young. You'd expect Carlton would have to offer something extra to get the deal done but he would be an excellent acquisition.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Do you watch the games? Serious question, based on that post.

I certainly agree that those are the types of players (kerridge, Docherty types) we should be predominantly after, but I posted last night that I think the club is still a bit short on leadership and experience in the 25-27 age group and I think the club recognise it. I don't know if Higgins is a guy that addresses that dearth of leaders or not, but I certainly think the club would benefit by bringing in a player of his demographic to help fill that void. I also think that need should be addressed through free agency, so the club doesn't give up any assets in the process.

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@cecil_anderson

To be honest im not a huge Kerridge fan, i think he can play but will only ever be a bit part player and we can find them fairly easily and cheaply, ie everitt.

I agree with Cecil89, you still need 27 year olds. In the end at the right price if i could pick up any good player i would, whilst obviously maintaining a healthy balance in the side. I think during the 2000's there was a huge idea that young kids would bring premierships within 5 years. it was a load of crap!

should trade Robinson for Jaryd Lyons. Would be a player if given an opportunity

After saying that I felt as though we were lacking for players in the 25-27 age group I decided to do some simple comparisons with the top 5 teams from this year. I simply compared the numbers of players aged above and below 25. The results are interesting.
(Over 25-Under 25)
Sydney: 21-24
Hawks: 20-26
Cats: 14-31
Freo: 20-25
Port: 14-31
Blues: 21-23

It seems we're not as bereft of experienced players as I thought, but rather are just bereft of quality and leadership amongst this group.

The delisting of Bootsma, Temay and McInnes and the likely delisting of Lucas don't aid these numbers either.

I'm still not opposed to recruiting a player like Higgins, but it further emphasises that these types of recruits need to be thru free agency. We can't give up assets to bring this type of player in to the club.

These raw numbers show that teams like Port and Geelong have a head start on us in terms of generating a strong list for the future, something that is particularly impressive with Geelong given their recent sustained success.

I think this shows that if players like Garlett, Robinson and Waite (all over 25) are on the trading block, they need to be flipped for younger assets. Meanwhile, surely this must be the time that tough decisions need to be made on Ellard & Mclean. Armfield and White need to be looked at too IMO.

These numbers can be turned around fairly quickly. If Waite, Scotland, McLean, Ellard, Robinson and Garlett can be turned in to 5 draft picks (1 rookie draft) and Higgins, then those numbers look a lot better.

It's scary to actually look at the profile of our list, but at least on the positive side we now have Henderson, Yarran, Docherty and Menzel who all look very solid for the future. But there's still some catch up to do compared with Geelong, motlop, Christensen, Duncan, Guthrie & caddy. Freo, Hill, Walters, Fyfe, Neale. And Port, Wines, Wingard, polec, Hartlett, trengove, broadbent and Ebert.

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@cecil_anderson

OK, so now break down the over 25's into say 25-28 and 29+. That might tell a tale.

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"I had to eat"